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Old 2nd November 2013, 07:56   #1
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Default Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

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If the traffic police’s proposal is approved, you will soon earn a negative point each time you violate traffic rules. The police hope that the new system would bring a change in the city’s road culture.

As per the proposal, any motorist violating traffic rules will earn a negative point depending on gravity of the offence.

Vivek Phansalkar, joint commissioner of police (traffic), said: “We forwarded the proposal to the director general of police. The suggestions have been made by a working committee set up by additional director general of police (traffic) Vijay Kamble. If approved, the system will be followed across Maharashtra but will first be functional in at least nine commissionerates, including Mumbai.”

The traffic police said they would first develop a model junction where at least 20 to 25 policemen will be posted from 8am to10pm. The junction will be a zero-tolerance zone where any motorist found flouting even minor traffic norms will be penalised.
An interesting article and a nice development for the rules to be implemented. No escaping if this is approved. I hope this is put through all over India. This would help ease of traffic movement and lesser road rage.

Hope there is no loop hole to this.

Anurag.

Last edited by GTO : 2nd November 2013 at 16:21. Reason: Keeping the fair usage policy in mind, it's best to share an excerpt + link to full article. Thanks
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Old 2nd November 2013, 08:04   #2
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While this sounds great and if implemented well, should hopefully improve traffic, I remain skeptical as the potential to increase the quantum and frequency of bribes could rise significantly as the penalty will have much more impact than a few hundred rupees. The cops should also be able to furnish evidence in support of the charges, especially where more than 3 (for instance) points are docked.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 08:20   #3
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Some tough measures like these are needed to bring some sort of order to roads.

But there are couple of things I do not understand;
1. How does a person earn 30/40/50 points when his license is permanently revoked at 20?
2. In our country one vehicle is driven by many others (family/friends). Using CCTV will they blindly give the penalty points to the registered owner evenif someone else committed the mistake?
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Old 2nd November 2013, 08:55   #4
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Originally Posted by y448 View Post
2. In our country one vehicle is driven by many others (family/friends). Using CCTV will they blindly give the penalty points to the registered owner evenif someone else committed the mistake?
This is the case in normal circumstances too. If there is a offence by a person driving somebody's car then the owner is held responsible. The owner is liable for who drives his car.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 09:09   #5
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Originally Posted by vikrantj View Post

This is the case in normal circumstances too. If there is a offence by a person driving somebody's car then the owner is held responsible. The owner is liable for who drives his car.
Vikrantj,
Till now per my knowledge there were only fines levied for offences and its ok to hold the owner liable as you pointed out.
But as per the new rule the owner even stands to loose their license permanently for someone elses mistake which doesn't seem to be fair

Last edited by GTO : 2nd November 2013 at 16:23. Reason: Typo
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Old 2nd November 2013, 10:16   #6
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Default re: Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

Good initiative and it's a start in the right direction. I'm not very clear how someone with a revoked license can earn more penalty points, but I guess it means that if the errant driver continues to drive the vehicle on a revoked license and earns more penal points then those terms of penalisation will be enforced.

The only loophole here seems to be the connection with RTO. The police have to make sure the RTO is up for this enforcement drive and the strict training so motorists don't have it the easy way out.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 10:36   #7
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Default re: Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
If the traffic police’s proposal is approved, [/url]

Anurag.
Its a big IF!

And how many of the drivers/riders actually have a driving license?
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Old 2nd November 2013, 10:49   #8
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Default re: Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

I got two words for this plan: Wishful Thinking

Although I am for it, I don't think our current corrupt system will let this work. Police will only earn more as people will be willing to bribe more to get bypass a negative point.
Besides, what strict training will the RTO give offenders when they don't have any sort of training before issuing a licence. This I think is the root cause of our bad traffic manners, the RTO needs to heavily invest in compulsory training for all new drivers and have them pass a strict test much like all other countries.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 10:53   #9
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Default re: Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

Now this is what India really needs to make its roads safer and traffic run smoothly. As Agarwaka said, bribes may increase. I don't think that can be helped here. But once the violator gets caught, I'm sure next time he'll be double careful not to violate any rules. Indian roads will be a lot safer with this system in effect.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 11:17   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikrantj View Post

This is the case in normal circumstances too. If there is a offence by a person driving somebody's car then the owner is held responsible. The owner is liable for who drives his car.
Big question: what if the owner has no licence? Law doesn't stop such a person from owning a car as long as he doesn't drive.

May be this is why the vehicle registration cancellation is also proposed.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 12:01   #11
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Default re: Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

Hope this is implemented in Bangalore sometime, yes I'm dreaming!
If the system aims to improve drivers and make our roads safer (hence points targeting the validity of the driving license) I don't understand why the owner of the car should get penalised.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 12:41   #12
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Default re: Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

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Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
Big question: what if the owner has no licence? Law doesn't stop such a person from owning a car as long as he doesn't drive.

May be this is why the vehicle registration cancellation is also proposed.
To my knowledge, in Middle East and other many regions, you have to mention a designated driver when registering the vehicle - the driver could be some body other than the owner also. The point system will penalise this designated driver and not the owner, if he is not the driver.

The same system could be implemented here.

Yet, first we need to have a pan-India unified, fool proof driving licence system linked to Aadhar or other such ID. Otherwise people can just keep on taking new licences from other states or even within the same state from a different RTO.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 12:49   #13
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Default re: Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

BAD MOVE! Leaves a lot of questions unanswered. What if someone else is driving a car which is registered on his/her's friend/relative's name? Will the owner get the negative point? and as someone pointed above, what if the owner has no licence? Law doesn't stop such a person from owning a car. It's just gonna raise the 'bribe revenue' for the cops as they can blackmail the mango people by highlighting the dire consequences. I hope this proposal reaches nowhere but trash. Higher monetary fines/chalans are a better way to tackle traffic problems. Just my personal opinion.

Last edited by AdiSinghV12 : 2nd November 2013 at 12:53.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 12:58   #14
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Default re: Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
He added that eventually they plan to have an automatic CCTV system which would capture the registration number of the errant motorists’ vehicles and bikers and generate penalty receipt (challan) which will be sent to his or her email address or mobile phone number.
I have been waiting for such an automated system ever since I first heard about it deployed in foreign countries : ))).
I hope this plan does indeed materialise. Should hopefully make our commute much more organised. Also, No corrupt police officers to deal with!

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Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
BAD MOVE!
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
What if someone else is driving a car which is registered on his/her's friend/relative's name? Will the owner get the negative point?
Yes. I believe that is the risk you take giving your car to someone to drive. Have them pay you back what they 'owe' you should such a circumstance arise ^_^.

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Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
Higher monetary fines/chalans are a better way to tackle traffic problems.
I am of the opinion higher fines dissuade people to pay them and rather bribe instead.

Last edited by Maky : 2nd November 2013 at 13:04.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 13:08   #15
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Default re: Mumbai: 20 negative points & your licence is gone for good

Although this is a good move by the RTO - this can only be possible in an ideal world.

Quote:
cuts lane, has fancy number plate, rides two-wheelers without helmet, drives without seat belt
Offences such as the above can be easily tracked and the motorist penalised accordingly. But there should be a clear distinction whether the offence has been committed by the Motorist or the Car owner. For example, the below offences should be charged to the motorist :
  • Cutting Lanes
  • Jumping Signals
  • Dangerous Driving

However the motorist cannot / should not be penalised for the below offences - since these fall under the car owner.
  • Fancy Number plates
  • No documents (PUC, Insurance)
  • Tinted glasses

Quote:
If a motorist has 30 points, the vehicle’s permit would be cancelled. While those with 40 points will have their vehicle registration cancelled for three months, those with 50 will have face permanent cancellation of their vehicle registration.
If the motorists license is suspended permanently suspended at 20 points - whats the point in suspending the vehicle permit? If the motorist is a chauffeur who has accumulated 50 points - why should the owner suffer registration cancellation. I agree, that owners will be more careful while hiring their chauffeurs after the first incident itself. But how are they to know that the person they are hiring is an offender or not? How will the owner know if someone else driving their car (son, brother, driver, relative etc) has committed an offence? Will the RTO notify the car owner that his vehicle was involved in an offence?

There are a lot of questions and doubts about how this system will work - but like its mentioned above - its still pending for approval - so will wait for more details.

Coming to offences which are erroneously committed - due to no fault of the motorist :
Stopping on a Zebra crossing. More than half of the Zebra crossings aren't visible on the road.
Traffic signals are blocked by huge posters or dont even work.
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