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Old 12th November 2013, 20:03   #46
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Sorry - But we need to distinguish good outcomes from good decisions.

You endangered your car's safety for an innocent animal (even if prodded by a malevolent human) -> Bad decision.
Nothing happened -> Great outcome.

Having a great outcome from a bad decision is simply like the roll of the dice - there's nothing to be gained from doing that or feeling proud about it. If you repeat this scenario many times around, bad decisions will necessarily lead to bad outcomes (totalling the car / hurting or killing your passengers).

Let's not draw wrong conclusions.

And please, let's keep hypothetical hippo zoo shortcuts off the table - that scenario doesn't even exist on paper!

You spoke my mind, It was overriding my instincts, I did everything wrong.
And I knew it. And this could happen to anyone. My point is most of us are not cold enough to run over someone, cattle, lets say something with legs and that walks, runs. If one can do that he is the perfect MTC some XYZ bus driver. I do not think any of the Team-bhp member are that cold. Not at the cost off a life.

What I was trying to say is, we are humans. Not robots. Emotions will override. Just like what happens in I Robot. but thats one hell of a Robot thats still human.

coming to the zoo, that senario does not exist because we know as 'educated' humans, its too dangerous for us to hit the hippo pool through the lions den. And Hippos are one of the most violent!

Just my view.
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Old 12th November 2013, 20:46   #47
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

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My point is most of us are not cold enough to run over someone, cattle, lets say something with legs and that walks, runs. If one can do that he is the perfect MTC some XYZ bus driver. I do not think any of the Team-bhp member are that cold. Not at the cost off a life.
I am not trying to stir up something here but what I am going to narrate may be an eye-opener to us. It was to me!

My friend's sister was recently trying to get a driver's license in the UK. During the test, she did well and looked like she would sail through. But suddenly, a person walked onto the main road (I am guessing this is some road where pedestrians cannot cross) and she slammed on the brakes. She was failed on the spot. The inspector explained to her that by stopping suddenly, she had endangered the lives of so many other people in vehicles behind her. And that the law said that the person cannot cross the road at that location - that she was covered by law even if she was to hit that jaywalker.

I mean, this might not be relevant to the discussion - especially pertaining to the situation here in India but I am just thinking isn't it better (in the case of a small animal at least) to hit it rather than swerve and endanger everyone in the car? And other cars?
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Old 12th November 2013, 21:21   #48
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

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I am not trying to stir up something here but what I am going to narrate may be an eye-opener to us. It was to me!

My friend's sister was recently trying to get a driver's license in the UK. During the test, she did well and looked like she would sail through. But suddenly, a person walked onto the main road (I am guessing this is some road where pedestrians cannot cross) and she slammed on the brakes. She was failed on the spot. The inspector explained to her that by stopping suddenly, she had endangered the lives of so many other people in vehicles behind her. And that the law said that the person cannot cross the road at that location - that she was covered by law even if she was to hit that jaywalker.

I mean, this might not be relevant to the discussion - especially pertaining to the situation here in India but I am just thinking isn't it better (in the case of a small animal at least) to hit it rather than swerve and endanger everyone in the car? And other cars?

Yes sir it is better. But, the question is can we do it? That is exactly what happend to lady in question. A failed test. We would love to know what would have been the outcome incase she hit the person that crossed the road. We would also like to hear how the inspector and the law handled that situation.

This is not about laws, even instincts, this is all about how humane you are.

Hypothetically, if it was the inspector who was crossing the lane, and the 'student' according to the rules to save his/her virtual passengers run him down, would that grant him/her a license for following all the rules?

I think that amounts to manslaughter.

She did the right thing!
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Old 13th November 2013, 01:42   #49
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

Friends, Can you image, if this happens while driving?

See this video & think / answer

http://video.in.msn.com/watch/video/crazy-elephant-attacks-cars/1jux9xayb

This video caused some shivers in my bones, when I saw first.
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Old 13th November 2013, 07:22   #50
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

Interesting thread. I have came across scenario-2. Last month, I was traveling on Old Mumbai-Pune Road, all of sudden a cow entered my lane. I was maintaining a speed of 80-90 kmph. I had no option other than slamming the brake. An XUV500 was following me and he also managed to brake at a safe distance. So did not cause any accident. It was a narrow escape.

By the way, one of my friend who visited Japan shared the construction of highways there. The entire highway is covered by hemisphere structure and mesh. There is no garden on medians so that it wont attract cattle to highways. Also cattle traps have been installed on all entry roads. Looks like some thing similar should be considered in Indian highways as well.
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Old 13th November 2013, 07:36   #51
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

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Originally Posted by geronimo View Post
we were surrounded by 25 burly villagers
It is illegal to permit cattle or other animals on the national highways, so you were not the one at fault. Also, when threatened with mob violence, you can leave the scene of the accident and report the incident later so if there was any way you could leave, perhaps a gap in the block, you could have.

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she was covered by law even if she was to hit that jaywalker
It may be the law, but in some parts of the world the test instructors are required to fail a certain percentage of applicants for the test to be considered statistically fair. In such a case, they would look for any possible way to fail the applicants.
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Old 13th November 2013, 13:31   #52
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Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post

My friend's sister was recently trying to get a driver's license in the UK. During the test, she did well and looked like she would sail through. But suddenly, a person walked onto the main road (I am guessing this is some road where pedestrians cannot cross) and she slammed on the brakes. She was failed on the spot. The inspector explained to her that by stopping suddenly, she had endangered the lives of so many other people in vehicles behind her. And that the law said that the person cannot cross the road at that location - that she was covered by law even if she was to hit that jaywalker.
I would take your friend's sister's account of the incident with a big pinch of salt. Right of way is always yielded, never demanded. In this case, not stopping when she could just because she had right of way would open her up to manslaughter charges, in addition to being morally indefensible.

You will be interested to know that even in a situation where the light is green, it only means "Go...if the road is clear". If there is someone trying to cross, or another vehicle stuck in your path, HOWEVER in the wrong they may be, you WILL be prosecuted for intentionally not avoiding an accident if you decide to run them over.

The case we have been discussing in this thread deals with smallish animals that run into one's path without warning where stopping suddenly could cause serious accidents behind you and NOT stopping could result in the running over and possible death of the animal in question. While still sad, the latter case is both morally and legally defensible. The case you have presented is completely different.
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Old 13th November 2013, 13:46   #53
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
The case we have been discussing in this thread deals with smallish animals that run into one's path without warning where stopping suddenly could cause serious accidents behind you and NOT stopping could result in the running over and possible death of the animal in question. While still sad, the latter case is both morally and legally defensible. The case you have presented is completely different.
Yes, and that is exactly what I'd mentioned - after even giving disclaimers to cover myself. No, I am not for hitting a person at all and I am sure every one of us will try and avoid it at all costs. It is hardwired in us after all - humanity cannot be dissolved so easily?

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Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post

I mean, this might not be relevant to the discussion - especially pertaining to the situation here in India but I am just thinking isn't it better (in the case of a small animal at least) to hit it rather than swerve and endanger everyone in the car? And other cars?
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Old 14th November 2013, 12:31   #54
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

Not just people, two wheelers, three wheelers and I have even seen an TATA Ace jump out of bushes on a highway. We can at least forgive the cows, but what can we say about these people who put everybody's lives at risk. And if god forbid something happens, the car owner will always be placed at fault.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Added this very useful point to the opening post
This trick actually saved me once when a cow suddenly jumped from behind a parked van on NH45 highway. I just slowed down and went behind its rear.

. One evening, a friend of mine trying to show off his driving skills, rode without his head lights, on a dark road with his sunglasses on. Needless to say, in some distance we saw him lying on the ground with his MC and a buffalo walking past him. When there are people like this, what will the poor cattle do?
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Old 14th November 2013, 12:52   #55
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

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Couldn't agree more. Had seen an horrible accident on NH 4 near Chitradurga last Monday on way back from Goa to Bangalore involving two vehicles and two buffalo's (both dead). Not sure of injury of car passengers, however by the look of the vehicles it was severe. There was a traffic jam for about 2 KM's before the site.
Locals were saying the owner has blocked the road asking for compensation. Feel sorry for the plight of car owners / passengers.
I was on the same road travelling from Chennai to Sirsi when this happened. The Villagers had blocked both sides of the road and refused let all vehicles move, when a few vehicles did attempt to use the service lane, Mob mentality crept in and the villagers started to hit the car bonnets with sticks. The owners of both the vehicles involved in the accident were safe, Most cases where i have seen such kind of accidents are usually deliberately committed by the owner(usually older cows that would anyway reach the abattoir) to make some money off the vehicle owners.
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Old 15th November 2013, 07:36   #56
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

We know if an incident occurs, the owner of the vehicle is only on the loosing side - both by damages as well as paying compensations to the villagers.

Can anybody who works in Legal side (or know law) comment on -
  • How we can tackle the issue legally, if such an incident occur?
  • Whether our government(s) can provide some level of legal support to the commuters?
  • Is there any sort of protection from law, we can avail in a distress situation or later (highway police / highway authorities / third party agencies)?
Any valuable replies will be sincerely appreciated, as its going to help all of us.
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Old 15th November 2013, 08:33   #57
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Originally Posted by satan's_valet View Post

. One evening, a friend of mine trying to show off his driving skills, rode without his head lights, on a dark road with his sunglasses on. Needless to say, in some distance we saw him lying on the ground with his MC and a buffalo walking past him. When there are people like this, what will the poor cattle do?
That actually made me laugh. True we call animals dumb but they pale in comparison to the sheer stupidity that only humans can display!
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Old 16th November 2013, 22:19   #58
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

Hi folks, amid all these narrations, let me also narrate my experience which is a combo of both human and cattle. Was driving down from New Delhi to kolkata in my Maruti 800 on NH-2, when suddenly near Allahabad, there was a villager standing on side of the road with his calf. As soon as he saw my vehicle approaching, he let go of the cattle and whipped it very had. The cattle dashed towards my car which was doing around 80-90 KMPH. I slammed the brakes very hard and due to the screeching sound, poor animal got frightened and ran back towrds the same side. The worst part was that the stupid villager was standing and laughing on the side along with his friends.

Are these not gimmicks to extract money from commuters. Beleive that this is a very common practice on indian roads where the villagers know that this is the easiest way to earn money. One of similar instances happened when i was crossing a village on my two-wheeler and one hen just ran across the road. Later when i discussed this with some of my aquaintances and he told me that this was a way to loot the commuters who frequent that stretch.
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Old 17th November 2013, 08:00   #59
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

Thanks for the thread, some very good points mentioned by you.

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Final word – Every time I come back from a highway commuting I believe that its is not my credit or the strengths of my vehicle which bought me back – "only God’s protection".
What if somebody does not believe in god and still comes back safely from a highway drive
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Old 17th November 2013, 11:44   #60
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Default Re: Cattle - The real menace on Indian highways

With the four-laning of our Highways, the center median which is about 10-15 feet wide has become a grazing ground for cattle. Earlier cattle used to enter roads from either sides only, whereas now, one needs to be wary of cattle jumping out from the middle as well. To make matters worse, the cattle are not visible because of the wonderful flowering plants in the medians.
The medians are impeccably maintained in the Chennai-Trichy Highway from Chengalpet onwards. I have seen the toll-road staff periodically trimming the grass with petrol powered grass trimmers. But still, the risk of cattle jumping out from the medians remain.
May be we should try to co-exist with animals on our Highways as well !!
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