Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Street Experiences


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th January 2015, 09:27   #76
Senior - BHPian
 
zenx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,086
Thanked: 74 Times
Default Accident and legal queries

We had an accident on the way back from Kerala earlier in 2014 (over 6 months ago) where a 2 wheeler came onto the center lane from the shoulder. I spotted him coming in from the left as I was crossing the gap in the median and braked hard - I had little reaction time and swerved towards the median automatically - withing just a 3-4 feet space since I was already in the center lane. The impact happened around 20-25 metres beyond the gap - so he probably came onto the centre lane at least 30-40 mtrs before the gap in the median, on NH7, in heavy traffic!

We called the cops and ambulance. The NHAI guys themselves got there immediately.

The locals picked one of the guys - despite our protestations to let the ambulance guys handle it - and took him to hospital on a bike! The other guy was picked up by the ambulance staff within a couple of minutes. The guy they took on a bike didn't survive, we learned later. It was horrible to live with that thought for weeks altogether after that.

We had gone to the PS, informed them and left the vehicle there.

We had engaged a local lawyer right then who helped release the vehicle. The cops have now submitted a chargesheet - the very generic FIR was filed by the other party (they would not admit ours). The lawyer says there's enough evidence to defend this easily and get an acquittal.

Got an MACT court notice a couple of days ago. The lawyer says he'll file objections against it (for additional fees). The other party has made a claim for 40L is what we've been told.

Question : should we sign the vakalatnama in this case with our lawyer, or ask the insurance company if they are appointing their lawyer etc? What next steps should we expect and worry about? Also, what are fair fees for such cases?

TIA.
zenx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 12:15   #77
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 46
Thanked: 44 Times
Default Re: Accident and legal queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenx View Post
Question : should we sign the vakalatnama in this case with our lawyer, or ask the insurance company if they are appointing their lawyer etc? What next steps should we expect and worry about? Also, what are fair fees for such cases?

TIA.
Dear zenx,

The other party has filed the Motor Accident Claim (MAC) Case against you and the insurance company. Hopefully, your car was insured at the time of accident so the entire liability towards MAC will pass on to insurance company. However, as you are the owner of the vehicle, you are a necessary party in the case and hence made a party. The objection to be filed by your lawyer will be simple and highlighting insurance company's liability for such claim. You have to file a vakalatnama to authorize your lawyer to appear in MAC Case and represent you and also to file an objection. Insurance Company will be represented separately through their panel lawyers.

On your query on next steps and worries as well as on Fees,

In MAC Case: Liability will be of insurance company to compensate the relatives of the deceased / accident victim. Hence, nothing to worry on the matter. You may negotiate a lump sum fee understanding with your lawyer. As your lawyer has nothing much to do in the matter, fee should not be too high. Different lawyers from different places quote different rate, so without knowing the local practice it is difficult to advise the exact fee payable in such case. However, you may offer something around Rs. 20k as lump sum fee payable in different stages, like, 5K with the signing of v-nama, 5k on submission of written objection, 5k on completion of evidence and balance 5k on completion of arguments. Please note that these kind of cases stretches too long, easily for 3 - 4 years. Part payments will keep your lawyer engaged in the matter and keep the track of proceedings.

In Criminal Case: Hopefully your lawyer is enough experienced to handle these kind of criminal matters. Generally, it is very difficult for the prosecution to prove the accused guilty in the accident case. Court will also consider that it was just an accident and there is a no "mens rea" (criminal intention) behind the entire incident. On fees, you may negotiate a lump sum fee in line with above MAC Case. Per date fee payment understanding will cost you a lot as there may be several dates and several adjournment. Is evidence started in the matter? Understand chargesheet is already filed. You may already paid to the lawyer for obtaining bail for yourself and for release of vehicle. Accident cases are not so complicated so fee should not be too high.

Regards,

Amyth78
amyth78 is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 12:49   #78
Senior - BHPian
 
zenx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,086
Thanked: 74 Times
Default Re: Accident and legal queries

Thanks a lot! He's asked a 15k lumpsum for the MACT case. Will probably go ahead.

Criminal case : he's sure there's an early acquittal in this one given the photographic evidence clearly shows what happened - both ours and that of the NHAI guys and the cops (I hope we have access to the same).

That really helped.
zenx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 15:40   #79
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 46
Thanked: 44 Times
Default Re: Accident and legal queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenx View Post
Thanks a lot! He's asked a 15k lumpsum for the MACT case. Will probably go ahead.

Criminal case : he's sure there's an early acquittal in this one given the photographic evidence clearly shows what happened - both ours and that of the NHAI guys and the cops (I hope we have access to the same).

That really helped.
15K lumpsum is perfect. Pay in stagewise or lumpsum on disposal of the case. Entire payment in advance is strict "no" otherwise the Lawyer will lose interest in handling the matter once he receives the entire amount

You are entitled to call for those photographic evidence from NHAI as well as from cops through court process but before that please be ensured that photographs are completely in your favour. Try to get unofficial copies and discuss the same with your lawyer before bringing those evidences in record. Sometime, in criminal proceedings, evidences can be used and interpreted against the accused, so better not to adduce any evidence which may goes against you.

Amyth78
amyth78 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 19:58   #80
BHPian
 
raghu.t.k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 446
Thanked: 161 Times
Default Re: Post Accident - Police, Person and Law

Reading all the posts in this thread and from personal experience, the entire system has issues, and the less said the better. Though there are straight foward officials, its very rare, that the public get to interact with them when in need. Any law abidding citizen would prefer not to be anywhere close these institutions. The fact that these procedure are time consuming, labourious, rude, and many a time the interactions are inhuman/ insensitive, makes everyone to take the shortes way out unless they have the right contacts. This is really painful, and hope it changes soon.
raghu.t.k is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 21:48   #81
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bombay
Posts: 269
Thanked: 195 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjeetnair View Post
.

Sorry for going going into details.My point is what to do in situation when you or your vehicle has been hit ?
In situations such as bumper damage, ask the offender to accompany you to the nearest police station. Most likely, they will not do that. In case they don't, go to the police station yourself, and put in a "kachaa report". This is just a record in the station for your protection. Take down the number and other details of the report. Else it can turn messy later if he puts a case against you saying that you are the offending party.

Last edited by anilp : 5th January 2015 at 21:51.
anilp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 22:03   #82
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,629
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default Re: Post Accident - Police, Person and Law

Well, this has scared me a little bit.

In may 2013 I met with an accident. Area is a sensitive one and it happen at a junction. I did not note one biker coming from right, and he did not notice me. Crash. My baleno's right fender is bend, the right headlight caves in, and the guy lends on front windscreen. Front windscreen in front of me ( i.e. driver ) caves in. I did not fled the scene, took the guy to hospital. Called in contacts and even a lawyer just in case. The guy when I was taking him to hospital kept on repeating same thing "where was I going before accident ?" and also kept on repeating his name. I was like what has happened. At one corner of this junction is Police station and the PI was standing witness to this accident.

Me and this guy walk into trauma center of hospital and trauma center medical professionals are wondering if its a trauma. Understanding that it could be a case of internal injury, I still pressed on for his check up. Paid nothing and left.

After 4 days, get a call from my relative that they have approached Police station. The guy who crashed with me was walking and talking, said CT scan, etc. PI was firm, told him that he wouldn't talking and moving so freely if he actually needed a CT scan. Case was settled for Rs. 5000/- which I had to pay as I was having bigger vehicle.
I argued with PI that it was junction, my number place and most of the front car is still intact and only right fender damaged, so he crashed into me. PI informed me that they are taught "first right on the road is of pedestrians", I got it and decided to pay the amount.

I am not having a copy of document which me and the guy who crashed had signed. Am worried if this can again crop up.

Lessons Learnt :

1) Use slower and busier street that has less two wheeler traffic.

2) Baleno only had third party insurance at that time, meaning I had to shell out more than Rs. 13K or so ( with labor ) only for front windscreen. Rest of the damage did leave a dent in my wallet. Always have more expensive insurance, one that covers up the entire car. My grand i10 diesel has bumper to bumper insurance and Wagon R has Comprehensive one.

3) Always obey traffic rules and belt up. The two wheeler guy who crashed with me was not wearing helmet, this is a plus point if they decide to file a case against me.

Over one year has passed. Hope it was all over. But never run away from accident spot unless things are very much against you and life threatening. I had two advantages in this case : Did not run after accident and took the guy to hospital ( a big renowned name ).

Last edited by aaggoswami : 5th January 2015 at 22:06.
aaggoswami is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2015, 13:46   #83
BHPian
 
MetalBuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mumbai, Florida
Posts: 458
Thanked: 253 Times
Default Re: Post Accident - Police, Person and Law

Was traveling with a friend in his 5 day old CIAZ (at 8 in the AM with the hope of beating the traffic!) and a lady knocked the right rear door in. We were traveling arrow straight whereas, she took an abrupt left as she didn't want to wait (the vehicle in front of her stopped for a U turn).

We got off and politely asked her to park her vehicle on the side of the road since, we were clearly disrupting the flow of traffic. Not only she did not get off her car to assess the damage(kept mumbling it's a minor scratch) but, also disagreed to make way for the traffic even after our repeated pleading.

Asked my friend to stay at the same spot (didn't have a choice or she would've fled the spot), clicked pictures and went to the MIDC police station. Got a call from my friend the moment I stepped in that a constable had arrived on the spot (miracle!) and is exactly when she agreed to visit the PS.

Don't want to bore you'll with the insignificant flow of events there but, all in all, she paid a paltry fine of some 200 bucks and left in circa 15 minutes whereas, we like idiots were made to wait for 2hours or so, for we had to collect some TD/ KD which is filed in case of "minor accidents" and when insurance has to be claimed. The FIR is when there's an injury is what we were told (is this true? Doesn't an FIR apply in our case?)

It's really disgruntling to see people commit such mistakes and act rude at the same time! At the end of it all, I still have one question - Why did i even go to the PS and what is it that they even did? This isn't the first time that I have been embroiled in something of this sort but given, the age of the car, this one burnt a hole in the heart!

Q) What did I learn form all these PS visits?

A) The next time I'm at the giving end, I'll laughingly visit the nearest PS (if, insisted/ forced/ threatened ), pay a trivial fine and walk off unscathed. Lesson well learnt!


Cheers,
-Shivang Gandotra
Attached Thumbnails
Post Accident - Police, Person and Law-img_1353.jpg  


Last edited by MetalBuff : 20th March 2015 at 14:08.
MetalBuff is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2015, 14:58   #84
BHPian
 
sukhoi30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 323
Thanked: 383 Times
Default Re: Post Accident - Police, Person and Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalBuff View Post
Asked my friend to stay at the same spot (didn't have a choice or she would've fled the spot), clicked pictures and went to the MIDC police station. Got a call from my friend the moment I stepped in that a constable had arrived on the spot (miracle!) and is exactly when she agreed to visit the PS.

It's really disgruntling to see people commit such mistakes and act rude at the same time! At the end of it all, I still have one question - Why did i even go to the PS and what is it that they even did? This isn't the first time that I have been embroiled in something of this sort but given, the age of the car, this one burnt a hole in the heart!

Q) What did I learn form all these PS visits?

A) The next time I'm at the giving end, I'll laughingly visit the nearest PS (if, insisted/ forced/ threatened ), pay a trivial fine and walk off unscathed. Lesson well learnt!

Cheers,
-Shivang Gandotra
Well, my friend, in my opinion, it would be futile to file a FIR for such a minor accident. The system is not very friendly that you will get any compensation soon. You may have to run around multiple times just to get rid of the FIR at some point.

You rightly said that next time if you are in the receiving end, you could escape similarly. But, I think, situations could differ and probably it may not be that easy.
sukhoi30 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2015, 15:34   #85
BHPian
 
MetalBuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mumbai, Florida
Posts: 458
Thanked: 253 Times
Default Re: Post Accident - Police, Person and Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi30 View Post
Well, my friend, in my opinion, it would be futile to file a FIR for such a minor accident. The system is not very friendly that you will get any compensation soon. You may have to run around multiple times just to get rid of the FIR at some point.

You rightly said that next time if you are in the receiving end, you could escape similarly. But, I think, situations could differ and probably it may not be that easy.
Hey Sukhoi,

Sure, the situations could differ but, in a similar one (Firstly, I pray that I don't get into one! Being the one to do something to someone's beloved car is my biggest nightmare) I don't think anything should change except getting thrashed by the mawkish mob/ the concerned vehicle owner (for which he'll pay with an FIR that I'll file against them/ him/ her ). Would really like to know more if, this isn't actually the case and a figment of my limited understanding.


As for the FIR(which wasn't filed), I was clearly told by the inspector that this (TD/ KD) is what is issued if, you want to claim from your own insurance or from the opposite party's whereas, the one who was filling the details and readying this record mentioned that this won't count towards filing a case with the guilty's insurance company. "Yeh sab TV mein dikhate hain ki har cheez mein FIR lagega" (This assumption stems from what is shown in TV these days, that every thing calls for the need to file an FIR) is what the PI blurted out with the widest grin I have ever seen on a policeman's face!

All in all, only God and people in this judiciary are aware of what is permitted and what isn't. For common men like ourselves, these things will never be as easy as calling something black or white!

Cheerio,
-Shivang Gandotra

Last edited by MetalBuff : 20th March 2015 at 16:03.
MetalBuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2015, 11:27   #86
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 46
Thanked: 44 Times
Default Re: Post Accident - Police, Person and Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalBuff View Post

As for the FIR(which wasn't filed), I was clearly told by the inspector that this (TD/ KD) is what is issued if, you want to claim from your own insurance or from the opposite party's whereas, the one who was filling the details and readying this record mentioned that this won't count towards filing a case with the guilty's insurance company. "Yeh sab TV mein dikhate hain ki har cheez mein FIR lagega" (This assumption stems from what is shown in TV these days, that every thing calls for the need to file an FIR) is what the PI blurted out with the widest grin I have ever seen on a policeman's face!
Hi,

Just to clarify, FIR has been lodged only in non-cognizable cases / offences. For cognizable cases / offences, like these kind of minor accidents, etc., police make a general diary (GD) entry. The TD / KD, what the policeman was referring to is the same GD entry, they might have recorded in your case. So, the policeman was right in saying that not for every offence / accident, an FIR to be lodged. Copy of GD entry (or in your case TD / KD), issued by Police, is sufficient and acceptable for an insurance claim.

Regards,

Amyth78
amyth78 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2015, 16:32   #87
Senior - BHPian
 
arun_josie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,216
Thanked: 3,939 Times
Default Re: Post Accident - Police, Person and Law

One of my friend and his wife met with an accident last year when a mini bus rear ended their two wheeler when they were waiting at a red signal in Hyderabad. They had to spend around 10 lakhs for medical expense apart from their personal insurance claims. Now he is planning to file a case and need some assistance for the same. Especially some good lawyer reference in hyderabad.

I am posting this on behalf of him. Please assist if you have any pointer to his queries/concerns.

Quote:
  1. Incident occurred on Oct 2014 and FIR was registered on the next day itself by the police.
  2. FIR is filed under section IPC 337, Although I heard that it should be filled in IPC 338 for severe injuries. Which one is correct?
  3. Merits of the case? Is it possible to win this case considering the section 337?
  4. Due to severe monetary loss and mental agony, I am not sure what case I should file for seeking compensation ? Civil / Crime ? I was told by few lawyers that I should file in Motor Vehicle case but I am not sure about this.
  5. What would be the best approach or process to file this case and under which route Civil or Crime ?
  6. What would be the Court fees for 20 lakhs compensation (10 lakhs actually incurred and 10 lakhs for agony)
  7. Nominal Advocate fees that we should pay and the intervals that we should pay.
  8. Good lawyer reference in Hyderabad who deals with Motor vehicle case for compensation.
  9. If anybody has any past experience , please share your experience and pointers i need to consider.
  10. Any other inputs that I need to be aware of to file this case and to take a informed decision and win this case.
arun_josie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2015, 14:30   #88
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 62
Thanked: 40 Times
Default Re: Post Accident - Police, Person and Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by amyth78 View Post
Hi,

Just to clarify, FIR has been lodged only in non-cognizable cases / offences. For cognizable cases / offences, like these kind of minor accidents, etc., police make a general diary (GD) entry. The TD / KD, what the policeman was referring to is the same GD entry, they might have recorded in your case. So, the policeman was right in saying that not for every offence / accident, an FIR to be lodged. Copy of GD entry (or in your case TD / KD), issued by Police, is sufficient and acceptable for an insurance claim.

Regards,

Amyth78
I think you got confused in cognizable and non-cognizable offences. Cognizable = FIR can be lodged by the police on its own (i.e., on cognizance of the offence); Non-Cognizable = FIR can be lodged only after an order from the court.
N.A.GTC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2015, 22:33   #89
BHPian
 
mm403's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 155
Thanked: 70 Times
Default Re: Post Accident - Police, Person and Law

A cousin met with an accident. He was on a bike and was hit by another bike driven by a cop. The cop got injured and has filed a FIR against my cousin. When my cousin's friend went to file a FIR the police folks refused to file one. Can anyone suggest a course of action. I understand one can file a FIR by going to police commissioner office.

Any other options possible
mm403 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2015, 00:42   #90
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dombivli/Gurgao
Posts: 2,603
Thanked: 1,121 Times
Default

Please get a good lawyer and write to the police station in charge and also to the commissioner or similar senior authority that the cops refused to file FIR. It is just a tactic by them to prevent you from reporting your side as the other party is one of them.
honeybee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bangalore Traffic Police post accident videos on FB -Hope people follow traffic rules Wanderer78 Street Experiences 3 25th November 2011 11:21
Petrol and the Law arindambasu13 Introduce yourself 10 15th April 2008 10:52
Stubborn Resistance to the New Helmet Law !! normally_crazy Motorbikes 116 29th April 2006 13:42


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 22:42.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks