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Old 26th February 2014, 10:47   #1
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Default Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

There was this Father-son duo on a blue Ritz on Sardar Patel road just opposite Anna university usually this place is jam packed with morning rush hour traffic. I was riding on 200 NS behind the ritz and young chap was driving the car.

I was able to see more cars in front of the ritz and anticipating braking, I was riding at a slow pace. As we were moving ahead, the driver of the ritz just slams on the brakes, I was able to stop within few inches of the ritz's bumper and another guy in a splendour slams me behind and a super splendour ploughs in front of me and then through the gap between the median and the ritz.

Fortunately, Ritz had some considerable space between itself and the median. So the car never took any hits and unfortunately, I had to bear the brunt of ritz's driver's mistake (though no serious damage to my bike)

When will these guys realise that cars have much better braking compared to motorbikes.
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Old 26th February 2014, 12:52   #2
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Quote:
Originally Posted by katchkamalesh View Post
There was this Father-son duo on a blue Ritz on Sardar Patel road just opposite Anna university usually this place is jam packed with morning rush hour traffic. I was riding on 200 NS behind the ritz and young chap was driving the car.

...................

Fortunately, Ritz had some considerable space between itself and the median. So the car never took any hits and unfortunately, I had to bear the brunt of ritz's driver's mistake (though no serious damage to my bike)

When will these guys realise that cars have much better braking compared to motorbikes.
Sorry, but I feel that if motorbikes have poorer braking, then they should keep better distance from the vehicle in front.

In this specific case, why did the Ritz driver brake hard? In any case, you cannot argue with a car driver if he braked hard, there must be some reason. It is always the responsibility of the trailing vehicle to keep sufficient gap.

Since you had kept that gap, you could brake without hitting the Ritz. The biker behind you had lesser road sense, so he rear ended you. Now who fault is it? Your's for braking hard... or the other biker's for not keeping a safe distance?
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Old 26th February 2014, 14:19   #3
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Sorry, but I feel that if motorbikes have poorer braking, then they should keep better distance from the vehicle in front.

In this specific case, why did the Ritz driver brake hard? In any case, you cannot argue with a car driver if he braked hard, there must be some reason. It is always the responsibility of the trailing vehicle to keep sufficient gap.

Since you had kept that gap, you could brake without hitting the Ritz. The biker behind you had lesser road sense, so he rear ended you. Now who fault is it? Your's for braking hard... or the other biker's for not keeping a safe distance?
Am I good at anticipating or what??

Lol, I just realized that some one might post this question about safe distance or reason after the edit time was over. Bad timing.

Anyway, here are the answers for your questions.

This is not a highway to keep a quiet some distance. This is a major road with bumper to bumper slow moving traffic where one just flows with the (errr.) flow.

I can also advocate following safe distance but in reality it is not practical, if there is a space in front of your car/bike the person behind you will honk or bikers will fill up the space. Either one of these is definitely going to happen and again you will bumper to bumper scenario.

If safe distance practice is followed religiously then I believe that there will be no accidents.

Since this is not going to happen the driver/rider has to be street smart/road smart - we have to anticipate what the dog on the side of the road is going to do and what the pan chewing person in the bus in front of you is going to do (Spit it out or not) and look for pedestrians who might cross the road and all this while focussing on the road/guy in front of you.

The reason for ritz guy to stop is unknown, but I strongly believe it to be late braking because there is no other reason as to why he did not start braking few meters ahead.

I will never blame the guy behind me (In this case), I very well know that he is following me (Not right, but this is what most people do, keep the vehicle in front as reference). That is the reason why I never brake hard in city traffic I sometimes even push through yellow at signal if I see someone coming close behind me in the rear view mirror (A couple of times passed Red signal as well for the same reason).

Today as soon as I heard screeching of tyres behind me, I knew I was going to be hit. I am complaining about the Ritz driver's driving style in public roads, I strongly believe that there was no reason for panic braking.

I am in no way disagreeing with your statement, I am just saying that those will not work out here.

Last edited by katchkamalesh : 26th February 2014 at 14:43.
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Old 26th February 2014, 15:04   #4
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

Mod Note: Moved out of the Bad Drivers thread into a new thread.

Going strictly by the law, it is always the rear ender's fault. However there are some cases in which I feel the law works against a person who may possibly be innocent. One that immediately comes to mind is when a vehicle switches lanes without warning then brakes hard. Very common with two-wheeler riders in Pune and other cities, and good luck getting the errant driver to admit that there was a sudden movement prior to the "rear-ending".

In this case this doesn't seem to the reason. Panic braking while not the best course of action is sometimes unavoidable. The 3-second rule is an invaluable guide in such cases.

To the OP, look, we're all human. Sometimes we let our guard down for a moment and that is when disaster strikes. The important thing is to learn from this mistake and move on.
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Old 26th February 2014, 15:16   #5
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katchkamalesh View Post

When will these guys realise that cars have much better braking compared to motorbikes.
Actually when will these bike guys realise that cars have much better braking compared to them?

Totally OT but most bikers seem to love sticking to cars bumpers even at speeds above 40kmph, which is totally dangerous.

Definitely wasn't your fault, and the person behind you should have kept safe distance.
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Old 26th February 2014, 15:19   #6
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

Quote:
Sorry, but I feel that if motorbikes have poorer braking, then they should keep better distance from the vehicle in front.
Sums up my opinion. Only that it extends to any vehicle. You need to have an idea of how good your brakes are, and the guy in front of you. Would it be fair to expect you to compensate for the guy following you as well? If I see a BMW/Audi, or any better spec car in front, I tend to give a longer gap, because I know he can stop faster than I can, and it is my responsibility to maintain a safe breaking distance.

Worst case, Imagine if the car in front came to a sudden stop. Do you have space to stop your car without ramming into him? That should be your criteria. To expect him to brake reasonably, or to look in the RVM, to see who is behind, and then brake accordingly- That's honestly unreasonable, and needs expert reflexes - A much bigger demand than leaving braking distance in front.

Often for me, that stopping distance is a car length or more. and I frequently see bikers try to squeeze into that space. And often I see them Rear ending cars (and I've been rear ended thrice in the past year on OMR by bikers who had no explanation to give, other than sorry.)
I saw the same thing happen even last week
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post3374186 (Traffic and life on the road in Chennai)
If i see a biker nudge into my gap, either I ease out sideways so that I have no bikers in front, or at least room to swerve. If no such opportunities are there, A lovely Serving of Hella Redgrille suprise it is

Last edited by greenhorn : 26th February 2014 at 15:21.
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Old 26th February 2014, 15:45   #7
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

There's really no excuse to not follow the 3-second rule, even in traffic. What stops us from doing it (though very few would admit it openly) is an instinctive aversion to someone else possibly sneaking into the gap we leave out front.

I try to count to three before following a leading vehicle in traffic - very difficult to practice consistently & patiently, the urge to close the gap is strong, esp. to block a pesky biker who doesn't know or care how wide his ride really is - , and regularly get angry honks (and gestures) from following drivers, who can't bear to lose THREE precious seconds, never mind that they'll just join the 3-min wait queue beside me at the next signal a few hundred meters ahead.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 26th February 2014 at 16:03.
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Old 26th February 2014, 15:52   #8
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

Also depends on driving skills of the person in front. For a new driver, who will be extra cautious - expect more and sudden braking than experienced driver. In such situations it would be difficult to pinpoint blame.

Case in point - On my commute route on NH4 bypass it has become an acceptable norm to overtake from the left since heavy vehicles and novice drivers will hog the right lane. Yesterday while returning home, I was behind a Nano (and in my Xylo). I could see that there was very good clearance on either side for the Nano to overtake a truck - but the driver took a good time doing that while braking intermittently to be sure of the clearances.

In such a situation in case I rear end the Nano - I will also attribute blame to the Nano for stopping without reason.
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Old 26th February 2014, 15:58   #9
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

IMO, in city traffic, particularly bumper to bumper, it is difficult to follow the 3 second rule. As the OP says, even if you try to follow that, people behind you will honk like insane and eventually, either you or someone else will fill up that vacant place. And now the situation becomes the same...it is only some other vehicle that you are following now.
I have complains for those (both cars and bikers) who accelerate like a moron to close in even a one metre gap in bumper to bumper traffic only to brake hard soon after. Invites accidents, looks stupid among other things -wastage of fuel, accidents, uselessly stressing the mechanicals of your vehicle.
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Old 26th February 2014, 15:59   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmxylorider View Post
Also depends on driving skills of the person in front. For a new driver, who will be extra cautious - expect more and sudden braking than experienced driver. In such situations it would be difficult to pinpoint blame.

Case in point - On my commute route on NH4 bypass it has become an acceptable norm to overtake from the left since heavy vehicles and novice drivers will hog the right lane. Yesterday while returning home, I was behind a Nano (and in my Xylo). I could see that there was very good clearance on either side for the Nano to overtake a truck - but the driver took a good time doing that while braking intermittently to be sure of the clearances.

In such a situation in case I rear end the Nano - I will also attribute blame to the Nano for stopping without reason.
The weakest link theory applies. The road is only as safe as the worst driver using it. I see such cases everyday, and not necessarily novice drivers. A lot of people have no idea how wide their vehicle actually is. What I find curious though, is they're more than willing to recklessly dive into a smaller gap, but tentative when they get ample space.

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
IMO, in city traffic, particularly bumper to bumper, it is difficult to follow the 3 second rule. As the OP says, even if you try to follow that, people behind you will honk like insane and eventually, either you or someone else will fill up that vacant place. And now the situation becomes the same...it is only some other vehicle that you are following now.
I have complains for those (both cars and bikers) who accelerate like a moron to close in even a one metre gap in bumper to bumper traffic only to brake hard soon after. Invites accidents, looks stupid among other things -wastage of fuel, accidents, uselessly stressing the mechanicals of your vehicle.
Peer pressure is as dangerous while driving as anywhere else. The people who honk at you for leaving a safe gap out front in traffic, are the same morons who'll honk at you to jump (or make way) at a RED signal. Would you oblige then? If not, then why make an exception here?

Our safety comes first. The honk-crazy hothead in the following car should've left home early if he/she can't afford to wait a few seconds in traffic.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 26th February 2014 at 20:40. Reason: Merging back-to-back posts. Plz use the Edit button if posting within 30 mins of previous post. Thanks.
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Old 26th February 2014, 16:18   #11
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Peer pressure is as dangerous while driving as anywhere else. The people who honk at you for leaving a safe gap out front in traffic, are the same morons who'll honk at you to jump (or make way) at a RED signal. Would you oblige then? If not, then why make an exception here?

Our safety comes first. The honk-crazy hothead in the following car should've left home early if he/she can't afford to wait a few seconds in traffic.
And why do you think that same guys will be kind enough to leave the gap vacant? What makes you think that they will not rush in there? And then will the situation be any different?
Remember: Fools rush in where angels fear!
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Old 26th February 2014, 16:44   #12
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

I think there should be something like stopping dangerously. It will be difficult to prove unless a video is recorded for that.

I always have bikes rear-ending me and telling me that I am wrong in stopping suddenly.
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Old 26th February 2014, 16:48   #13
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

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I think there should be something like stopping dangerously. It will be difficult to prove unless a video is recorded for that.

I always have bikes rear-ending me and telling me that I am wrong in stopping suddenly.
True! Even bikes rear ending bikes are common and mind you, more dangerous when such rear endings happen at a signal when you stop for red signal and the person behind you wants to squeeze through.
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Old 26th February 2014, 17:16   #14
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

The distance to follow a car is exactly the distance you will need to stop your bike. Based on your bike this distance may vary. Like in my CI500 i am comfortably way behind the vehicle in front. The distance is less than half when i take my 390. Of course in my 390 i am not trying to follow by more so trying to get a space to move forward.

In cars i ensure my need to brake suddenly is very very minimal. This means irrespective of the traffic i maintain a good distance and secondly i am seeing/looking beyond the car in front of me anticipating a situation to pop up.

Even while stopping for signal/stop lights, i usually reduce speed atleast 100m before the stop light and give myself space for the fast coming car to reduce speed or worst case give myself space to move forward if required.

Even at stop lights i stop over half the car distance gap between me and the car in front, for i always say to myself someones going to rear end me, let me protect my ront.
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Old 26th February 2014, 17:21   #15
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Default re: Hitting a vehicle from behind: Is it always the rear-enders fault?

How to stop rear-ending others:
Keep sufficient distance. If you keep more than sufficient distance, then somebody will squeeze in. Sufficient distance is that if the vehicle in front stops abruptly, you can still stop without hitting.

How to stop others from rear-ending:
If somebody is not keeping safe distance, slow down. That will reduce their braking distance in case you brake and hence avoid getting hit.

There is nothing to be gained by driving in somebody's slip stream. Nobody will give a medal or even notice that.

Last edited by msdivy : 26th February 2014 at 17:23.
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