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Old 31st March 2014, 19:38   #31
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

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Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
Even after the Mishap, the car does not seem in a very good shape. Even the unfortunate condition of the passengers suggests that. It seems as if the Duster is a car not built well enough, and built to a cost. We should not forget that Duster is a car from a company called Dacia, that is a low cost brand, so cost cutting is a possibility. Here is the NCAP result, its horrid: http://www.euroncap.com/results/daci.../2011/421.aspx
This is absurd at the least. Most of the best sellers in our market today have been awarded extremely poor ratings or failed in the euroncap ratings. Soa blanket statement like this that Dacia is a low cost car maker and hence cuts corners is absolutely gibberish. The last time I heard something like this was with Air Deccan when people around me of the opinion that there flights are not safe as they are a low cost airline.
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Old 31st March 2014, 20:11   #32
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
This is absurd at the least. Most of the best sellers in our market today have been awarded extremely poor ratings or failed in the euroncap ratings.
This does not give reason for Renault to market a car that is potentially unsafe.
The car has been potentially know to roll over, because of a high C.O.G, and the presence of no ESP. The cars that have failed costed south of 5 lakh, here we are talking about an SUV that costs about 10 lakhs. Cars like the Rapid, Vento, Sunny, Fiesta have done amazingly well, but that meagre 3 stars is not acceptable. Or, price the car as cheap as its in the UK. Remember, this car is priced cheaper than similar specced Polo there. Badge engineering doesn't give you the reason to overprice a car so much. Also, cars are much more expensive in UK, but Duster costs the same, here and there. Additionally, what bestsellers are you talking about? The Suzuki Swift scores a full 5 in the test, so does the Punto, the Beat and the i20. You may argue that the airbags in India are optional, well they are offered!

http://www.autolatest.ro/news-cars/d...10-moose-test-


Last edited by prakhar1998 : 31st March 2014 at 20:28. Reason: Additions
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Old 31st March 2014, 20:23   #33
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
It appears that the SUV bumped over some uneven object (the mangled wheel rim) and was involved in such a mishap.The balance rod is broken to its right and so is the front right axle.

Also the A, B and C pillars are more or less intact, indicative of its near-solid body shell.
The uneven object seems like a concrete block used for pavement edges, that could explain the sharp bend in the rim, yet no damage to the under body or the front bumper, etc. There is visible damage on the tyre, though no big fat cuts, if that's what most others have referred to. This sudden impact may have bent the rim (its on the inner side) and hit the strut / arm, causing it to shear from the mount points. With the arm main support gone, the wheel has taken off and the Duster has then listed to starboard and catapulted.

The A pillars are more than smashed and have lost shape (as they have borne the weight of the dCi ?). The Bs are bulging outwards, the C / rear is intact, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
There is a big hit on the steel rim, but somehow no marks on the tyre.
Pl look closely, the tyre shows damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Most of the best sellers in our market today have been awarded extremely poor ratings or failed in the euroncap ratings. So a blanket statement like this that Dacia is a low cost car maker and hence cuts corners is absolutely gibberish. The last time I heard something like this was with Air Deccan when people around me of the opinion that there flights are not safe as they are a low cost airline.
The "best sellers" have been carefully chosen by the market forces, it does not truly represent the best sellers. The Nano is a best seller ? By what standards ? Where are the Swift, Wagon R and the Alto K10 ?

Dacia is a low cost car maker, no doubt. The very design of the car, the pillar and door thickness speaks volumes of their design prowess. This is also seen on the Logan aka Verito. They still carry forward the CCCP qualities, I guess, that Romania inherited. They may be part of the EU today, so what ? Up bringing matters, eh !

Yes, just being low-cost (I would better term that as value) does not mean you cut corners on safety, I second that. However, the design of the arm is strikingly similar to that on my Nano. This design may suit a hatch or a light weight car, maybe out of place for an SUV like the Duster. I guess that's what our friend meant when he put the blame on Dacia.

Does it not look to be a design issue of the suspension setup (arm + strut) not sustaining a tangential hit ?
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Old 31st March 2014, 20:46   #34
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

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Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
Additionally, what bestsellers are you talking about? The Suzuki Swift scores a full 5 in the test, so does the Punto, the Beat and the i20. You may argue that the airbags in India are optional, well they are offered!
Here is a full thread dedicated to the ratings of these bestsellers including the Swift and the Polo.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...fety-test.html (Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test)

And since you mentioned i20, I think that is one of the biggest cases of fraud that a car maker is doing by marketing all the models as 5 star safety models. The ill informed customer will easily fall prey to it and believe he is in a extremely safe car whereas the rating applies only to the top end variant which is probably the least selling model of the car.
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Old 31st March 2014, 21:12   #35
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Some updates:

1. Passengers were not using the seatbelts.

2. As I mentioned earlier, the car is just about 6 months old.

3. The car did not hit any stone or go into a big pothole or whatever. The entire wheel just decided to go its own way.

4. The road is quite smooth; I have traveled on that road. Where the accident took place, there is nothing to suggest that the vehicle hit anything. No Third Part was injured and in fact, the Police registered an FIR for recording that an incident took place and not an accident.

5. My co-worker got a call from Renault and this person had read this thread since he mentioned about it!! So Team-BHP's voice is being heard.

These are the updates. However, the intent of the thread is not to make disparaging comments or make wild criticism. Will make additional updates as and when I get specific inputs.

Team-BHP@iPad

Last edited by GTO : 1st April 2014 at 13:14. Reason: Typos
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Old 31st March 2014, 21:19   #36
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

A Horrible accident . Prayers are for the speedy recovery of the driver and for the passengers to come out of the mental trauma.

This reminds me of a similar accident that I went trough about 8 years back and my Santro that I was in was a total write off. Luckily all of us survived but that is another story.

Keeping this in mind and seeing the road, I have a few thoughts:

1. Was the drive during the night where the possibility of the driver sleeping on the wheel and at high speeds.

2. Could the vehicle have hit the border marker stone (usually in white) and then toppled over. This is what happened to me. This would also cause the damage that we see.
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Old 31st March 2014, 22:22   #37
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

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Originally Posted by lifebuoy View Post

Yes, just being low-cost (I would better term that as value) does not mean you cut corners on safety, I second that. However, the design of the arm is strikingly similar to that on my Nano. This design may suit a hatch or a light weight car, maybe out of place for an SUV like the Duster. I guess that's what our friend meant when he put the blame on Dacia.
Well add a boot/box and make it a sedan, chop it a bit and make it a compact sedan, make it higher an convert it to a pseudo-suv! This really must not be allowed! Why do we buy such dirt?
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Old 31st March 2014, 22:27   #38
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

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Originally Posted by aaren View Post

The driver (brother of my co-worker) got hurt somewhat badly and rest of the passengers were not
I think we should analyse this from the injury point of view, what were the injuries to the driver. From a doctors point of view if he was not wearing his seat belt he could have a head injury, injury to his spine, upper limb injuries. As the dash has not (I am presuming from the pictures) caved in I would presume his lower limbs are ok.

Did the car have air bags I cant see them inflated is it because it's not a frontal injury? If the head rests are missing was it during the accident or during extraction of the injured? If they have gone missing because of the accident then there is a very high risk of neck injury.

This kind of injury can occur even in the most safest of the cars, if the passengers and the driver are doing well, I would thank this car not blame it.

We in our country do not have properly trained emergency staff who attend the accident spot- please remember these things when you face one

1. Always your safety first, if you are safe you could save the rest.

2. Extracting the trapped person should not result in more damage, this happens most frequently to the spine injuries, if the person injured is awake ask for any pain in the neck and back.

3. Airway and breathing are the two things that kill most people, hence make sure they are breathing properly. If some one is able to speak a sentence they have less of an airway/breathing problem.

4. If some one has visible bleeding from a limb try to stop it by applying pressure. To tie a tourniquet a very high pressure is required, more often than not this is not achieved and contrary to the expectation more bleeding can happen.

5. Splint any broken bones

6. Get help ASAP.

Last edited by Aditya : 1st April 2014 at 11:44. Reason: Fixing quote
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Old 31st March 2014, 22:51   #39
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaren View Post
Some updates:
1. Passengers were not using the seatbelts.
2. As I mentioned earlier, the car is just about 6 months old.
3. The car did not hit any store or went into big pot hole or whatever. The entire wheel just decided to go is own way.
4. The road is quite smooth; I have travelled on that road. Where the accident tooklace, ther is nothing to suggest that the vehicle hit anything. No Third Part was injured and in fact, the Police regupistered an FIR for recording that an incident took place and not an accident.
5. My co-worker got a call from Renault and this person had read this thread since he mentioned about it!! So Team-BHP's voice is being heard.
Good that the Team-BHP voice is being heard and thought off!

Coming to the updates given by you, Hope all the passengers and driver are OK now and in recovering stage.

If possible can you post clear pictures of the lower arm and the other components as to understand how it 'decided' to come off like this!

No comments on seat belts etc but hope the driver was belted!

I am eager to see what Renault has to say on this?!

Anurag.
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Old 1st April 2014, 10:31   #40
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

Scary accident. Going by what the owner has stated, that there was no impact or hit in the area before the accident happened, it seems to be a case of failure of a critical suspension component.

These kinds of suspension parts are extremely critical for any vehicle. I really hope Renault takes the car in, deputes their best engineers and identifies the part that failed. The supplier of the part will have to be pulled up. They may even have to recall a batch of cars if they suspect a batch of that particular part to be suspect.

What I would like to know is, were there any warning signs that something is amiss, like a grinding noise or humming sound or steering wobble or drift ? It sure can't fall off like that without giving out some clue that something's not right!

Last edited by Santoshbhat : 1st April 2014 at 10:34.
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Old 1st April 2014, 11:07   #41
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

I guess we must all stop speculating about various possibilities and urge the owner & manufacturer of the car to send the suspension, wheel and axle components for a metal failure test at an independent lab. That should reveal some vital information about the reason for failure of the part.
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Old 1st April 2014, 11:34   #42
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

Quote:
Originally Posted by docmech View Post
Did the car have air bags I cant see them inflated is it because it's not a frontal injury?
The car doesn't have alloys. so must be the entry trim which didn't come with airbags.

This is indeed confusing. Is the car pointing in the direction it was originally travelling? In the last pic, the road behind the vehicle is visible. There are no skid marks, or scuffing in the bitumen indicating a car might have tumbled or slid over or banged into the surface. Even the front bumpers, the underbelly has absolutely no damage or drag marks. A car travelling at 60 kmph is going to skid a fair distance before coming to a halt.

Also if the right front wheel went down, I'd have expected the car to dip in that corner and flip over to the right. Here, if the car isn't pointing the wrong direction, it has flipped over to the left. Unless it pivoted on the right wheel arch and turn clockwise 180 while flipping. But then it would have landed on the rear side, and the C pillars should have been more damaged.

The only positive is that the cage has not collapsed entirely despite turning turtle, and the doors seem to have remained openable. Which meant it would have been relatively easy to evacuate the passengers quickly.

Somebody needs to investigate this thoroughly and quickly. Renault/Nissan need to reassure owners that the twins are safe. Imagine this happening on an expressway type of roads where speeds of 100+ are routine.

Last edited by Aditya : 1st April 2014 at 11:46. Reason: Fixing quote
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Old 1st April 2014, 12:23   #43
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Arrow re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaren View Post
Some updates:
3. The car did not hit any store or went into big pot hole or whatever. The entire wheel just decided to go is own way.
4. The road is quite smooth; I have travelled on that road. Where the accident tooklace, ther is nothing to suggest that the vehicle hit anything. No Third Part was injured and in fact, the Police regupistered an FIR for recording that an incident took place and not an accident.
Surprising!!

How do we explain the damages that have been caused to the RIM?

Good to know that the occupants are not gravely injured..
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Old 1st April 2014, 12:49   #44
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

A good read on "wheel separations"

Wheel separations can occur from,
  • an axle fracture, where a piece of the axle breaks free of the vehicle and takes the wheel with it. During a service an axle bearing if carelessly removed with a cutting torch, could metallurgically alter the axle and led to a catastrophic fatigue fracture.
  • a hub separation, where the bearing or the axle spindle nut fails and releases the hub and wheel from the vehicle. A bearing failure and the consequent friction could destroy the hub making it to come off the end of its axle.
  • a fastening failure, where wheel nuts fall off and/or wheel studs break and release one or two wheels from the vehicle.
A fastening failure is when the nuts on the ends of the studs unthread by themselves and fall off (typically on left-side wheels), or when the metal wheel studs break off (typically on right-side wheels). The physical evidence in left- and right-side wheel separations differs, but is most often produced by the same cause: a loss of clamping force, where the clamping force is the force produced by wheel nuts pulling on wheel studs to squeeze the wheel onto the vehicle.

A low clamping force can exist because wheels were not put on properly, the leading cause being that the correct torque to the wheel nuts was not applied. Even when the correct torque was applied (and therefore the correct clamping force was achieved), the clamping force can be lost. Causes are wear of corrosion products, dirt in the wheel interface, or other wear processes.

The remedy to the wrong or lost clamping force is to have the wheel nuts re-torqued after a short driving distance. Although wheel separations are rare, they should be entirely preventable with re-torqueing.

Quote:
In fastening failures we have observed that wheel separations generally occur 175 to 3000 miles, and one to fifteen weeks, after a wheel was taken off and put back on during some service, such as a tire installation


Please visit meaforensic for detailed explanation with pictures for the causes of “wheel separation” accidents.
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Old 1st April 2014, 13:17   #45
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

Off Topic: Posting here since we do not have a wheel separation thread.

M35's post reminded me of about a wheel separation incident i recently read on jalopnik.com. Here the failure occurs at the wheel lug clamping site on steel wheels. The steel wheel shears off the hub and the lug nuts/bolts were still attached to hub.

Here is the link:
http://jalopnik.com/heres-a-good-rea...eel-1550545624

The video if you just want to see the video:


Here is what the owner of the car shown in the above video said:
"For some clarification, I'm the owner of the car and Chris rented a co-drive from me. The wheel and lugs are all oem, and were torqued properly. In an earlier run, while I was driving, we caught a rut and the wheel bent some at the hub, but was not interfering with the brakes, so we went with it. That may have been a poor decision. When the stress is that high on a stamped out piece of steel, failure is imminent. All 5 factory lugs were still attached to the hub and the remaining holes in the wheel are now hexagonal. As a Subscriber to /Drive, and watching "My Life as a Rallyist," I knew this was a possible outcome, and was well aware of the risk, but my aluminum setup is mid refinish. The car was trailered to the event, and not my only vehicle, so no hard feelings were had. After the mishap, lots of pictures were taken, the spare installed and the car trailered back to the shop where I work. All of this with smiles on our faces."

Maybe we should have a dedicated thread about wheel separation. I had a wheel separation incident on a 2 wheeleras a kid riding with dad on his scooter. The back wheel came off with the hub because the workshop forgot to put the cotter pin after fastening hub nut.
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