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Old 2nd April 2014, 11:08   #61
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

The bend on the steel wheel does not look like something that could happen if it is hit when the tyre is inflated. I think in case of a heavy impact when the tyre is inflated, the wheel should rather deform to an oval shape because the air will distribute the pressure (This would possibly result in the tyre ripping off from the wheel). Also the bend in the rim is angular (progressive bend from outward side of the rim to the inward) which looks like a direct impact to the rim which could have happened after the wheel broke off. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 12:14   #62
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

For something to hit the wheel before the impact and cause such a big dent, I dont think you would keep driving. Hence I think it happened along with the detachment.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 13:04   #63
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

Well, I see a lot of alternate theories here out of which IMO the one that sounds the most plausible is, 'the hit on the tyre/rim took place sometime/some kilometers before the actual accident happened and due to not stopping the car to check even after the hit, the tyre/rim combo just came off from the additional pressure of driving on a damaged vehicle. There are no ways about the hit being the cause of the accident, whether it happened sometime before the accident or right then and led to the overturn is what could be ascertained only by the driver or the passengers of the car.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 13:11   #64
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

But based on my experience, I can imagine the system to 'bend' rather than break-off completely. I have seen an Estilo getting one nasty hit and the front LHS wheel going to the wheel arc due to bent rods and suspension system. I am sure that companies will design these systems with metals which have malleability, so as to bend rather than being brittle which can break-off after such hits.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 13:19   #65
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

If the wheel did hit something sharp and strong before it boke off, how come the tyre is still fine ? Wouldn't the sidewall be cut as a result of such an impact ? It looks alright in the picture.Or are MRF's stronger than that
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Old 2nd April 2014, 13:22   #66
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
But based on my experience, I can imagine the system to 'bend' rather than break-off completely. I have seen an Estilo getting one nasty hit and the front LHS wheel going to the wheel arc due to bent rods and suspension system. I am sure that companies will design these systems with metals which have malleability, so as to bend rather than being brittle which can break-off after such hits.

You are completely right, but each hit is different from another. I have hit my left strut twice on a bad pothole on the highways in 92 thousand kilometers the car has run, and beat that, both the times only the strut bent, the ultra soft Michelin XM1's that time and XM2's during the second hit were completely all right and so was the lower arm and ball joint and the alloy wheel.

But to say that will be the situation everytime would not be right. Every hit is different because the angel of approach, tyre pressure, load inside the car, speed and the pothole itself would be different for each one of us during a particular shunt.

Next time maybe my car takes a pothole hit, the Michelin or the Alloy might not be that lucky, maybe the strut, Michelin, lowerarm, alloy all can deform at the same time, you never know.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 13:33   #67
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

The hit and drive-on theory and eventual failure doesn't seem possible in this scenario - it is a huge dent uncovering tyre seating area and this would have resulted in an instant flat and loss of control. If the owner managed to bend the rim like this he wouldn't be able to drive on and cause a further suspension failure.

Also note that its the inside of the wheel that is bent, if the vehicle had accidentally hit a median or stone severely it would be the outside end of the rim that gets bent unless the vehicle climbed completely overt the kerb/median/stone. But if such a climb occurred the owner would never be able to NOT notice it. Owner says no such thing occurred.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 17:25   #68
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

After going through all the posts, the updates and everything else, a theory

The wheel did not deform running running. A inflated tyre will never allow such a sharp bend on the steel wheel. It will round up owing to the air pressure, as it distributes the force.

The wheel indeed came of as a surprise, and got lodged between car body/suspension components and that is what caused the bend. This lodged wheel caused the car to brake immensely and as the tyre was lodged in suspension lower arm/tie rod/anti roll bar, it raised the car enough to make it roll over to the other side.

This also explains why there are no scuff marks on the bumper/lower body, since the car never nosedived.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 22:20   #69
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

Is there any take on this accident by Renault India? I feel they should do a serious study on this issue and disclose the reasons for everyone to see.
Thank God everyone is fine.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 11:18   #70
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

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Originally Posted by racerdabba View Post
After going through all the posts, the updates and everything else, a theory

A inflated tyre will never allow such a sharp bend on the steel wheel. It will round up owing to the air pressure, as it distributes the force.
This is not true. In case of a severe impact most of the force is transferred to the rim of the wheel and the air in the Tyre hardly helps. The forces generated are very large and you may not be able to intuitively imagine it.

My Michellin xm1 once went into a ditch at 80kmph. I had a bent rim and zero Tyre damage.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 11:36   #71
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
This is not true. In case of a severe impact most of the force is transferred to the rim of the wheel and the air in the Tyre hardly helps. The forces generated are very large and you may not be able to intuitively imagine it.

My Michellin xm1 once went into a ditch at 80kmph. I had a bent rim and zero Tyre damage.
Yes. Being rubber mostly, tires rebound to original shape easily. But their could be damaged on the inside. Their could be damage to the carcass, as tire companies call it. The tire's inside should be felt with hand at the point of impact, and if their any bulge found, its damaged. If present, such a bulge will prove impact on tire.

Looking at the images, it does look like wheel hit something while it was on the car and then separated because of impact.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 11:54   #72
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
...
Also note that its the inside of the wheel that is bent, if the vehicle had accidentally hit a median or stone severely it would be the outside end of the rim that gets bent unless the vehicle climbed completely overt the kerb/median/stone. But if such a climb occurred the owner would never be able to NOT notice it. Owner says no such thing occurred.
The bend is extremely sharp; almost as if it was chiseled in.

I'm not sure hitting a stone or a median can do that - concrete or stone will be (at least partially) pulverized so any dent will be round.


More likely than not the wheel actually hit some other strong metal (not the sheet metal variety).

Hitting some obstruction on the road (unless it is a cut-off guarder, protruding several inches out of the road and the driver deliberately tried to go over it) is not going to cause it, least of all on the inside of the rim (I'm not sure how the outside looks like)


From the description OP has given my guess would be this dent happened while the wheel was sheering off - some part of the suspension failed first, hit the road, the rim went over it causing the deep gash into the rim and complete failure of the suspension.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 15:57   #73
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Default re: Renault Duster Accident & Rollover

This looks horrific and scary, i have never seen or heard such case with these modern cars. Even though the wheel has taken a major hit, i can't imagine the wheel just sheering off. Surely Renault will have to take this incident very seriously and investigate on and take immediate measures.
Its very fortunate that occupants are all safe and wish the driver a speedy recovery.
Please keep us posted on any updates.
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Old 4th April 2014, 18:17   #74
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Exclamation Re: This could very well trigger / head for a RECALL

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaren View Post
Some updates:

1. Passengers were not using the seatbelts.

2. As I mentioned earlier, the car is just about 6 months old.

3. The car did not hit any stone or go into a big pothole or whatever. The entire wheel just decided to go its own way.

4. The road is quite smooth; I have traveled on that road. Where the accident took place, there is nothing to suggest that the vehicle hit anything. No Third Part was injured and in fact, the Police registered an FIR for recording that an incident took place and not an accident.

5. My co-worker got a call from Renault and this person had read this thread since he mentioned about it!! So Team-BHP's voice is being heard.

Team-BHP@iPad
It's truly a miracle that everyone survived the crash (and in an accident like this, not wearing Seat Belts makes it even more miraculous).

Looking at points #2 & #3 above, I think you should document every aspect of the case and liaise with Renault officials. Do not deal with front line staff or Junior Managers. Approach highest Senior levels within the Dealership to get to Renault officials. This case deserves a inspection & investigation from 'factory' officials and probably not dealer personnel (please demand this).

I know of scenarios outside of India wherein customers are well within their right to demand investigations into issues like Fire Hazard, Non-deployment of Airbags etc

It's only investigations like these that have potential to actually trigger a RECALL. What if some Suspension components are poorly designed? Poorly manufactured/defective... the possibilities are endless... and best to seek a report and document Renault's conclusion

Please push hard with concerned authorities. And thank you for taking trouble to document, post and update such information. You may save more lives someday!

One Renault Duster case may not be enough of an evidence to trigger a recall on a certain component etc and many such past/future cases will be just written-off by insurance companies and many such cases will ignored by dealerships and many, many more may have gone or will go without investigation (because it's in India) whether Renault Duster or not, but this case may well be a tip of the iceberg!

If any member sees/spots a Duster or Nissan Terano (I think they are built around the same platform) with a Roll over and/or importantly detached Front Wheel, you could drop in a post here. That would be interesting.
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Old 4th April 2014, 18:38   #75
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Default Re: This could very well trigger / head for a RECALL

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Originally Posted by WYN View Post
Please push hard with concerned authorities. And thank you for taking trouble to document, post and update such information. You may save more lives someday!
Very well written. I agree, and the onus is on Renault to win the confidence of all the Duster owners over here. There would be a number of Duster guys who would be watching this thread with utmost interest. I am, for one, looking forward to a logical conclusion in terms of the root cause and the parts-failure report, if any.

Renault -----over to you guys !!!!
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