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Old 4th June 2014, 19:54   #76
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Guys, when the Government buys base version of SX4 for ministers or similar officials, and the police of many states buy base version Innovas for official uses, whats the use in mandating the provision of safety features like Airbags? Maybe the car doesnt offer more than two airbags currently. But when the government skimps on that too, it just shows how they are concerned about their own officials' safety. If so, then I wonder if they are even bothered about the safety of the citizens of the country

May the soul of Shri. Gopinath Munde rest in peace. Very unfortunate and unexpected. Cant imagine the state of his near and dear ones when he came home yesterday in a state that was totally opposite of what they were expecting.
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Old 4th June 2014, 19:58   #77
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Adding to gsurya's post above.

A seatbelt would not have saved him since, in this case it was a side impact in which the Indica hit the door were he was seated. The medical report states that he died of liver rupture and other internal injuries which obviously would have occurred due to the side impact.
I am not sure ,if any of these could have been eliminated if he was belted.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...unde-died.html
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Old 4th June 2014, 20:41   #78
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Everybody can now only speculate whether a seat belt would have saved his life or not, but the reality will be hard to ascertain.

But there is no denying that people/govt. should consider enforcing enhanced safety features and traffic laws which could potentially save thousands of other lives in other accidents. The callousness of the road runners and utter lack of road manners is something we need to start improving... small steps at a time, it will take a long time to fix these things in the system, but a start is necessary.
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Old 4th June 2014, 21:40   #79
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

I feel auto brands take the Indian market for granted because we take the road safety for granted. In actual scenario we give least importance to the provided rear safety belt and have to be taught that seat belts are important so wear it. If a poll is conducted pan-India I am sure majority of drivers won't be using rear seat belts. The sad part is why an innocent person has to die to teach us a lesson ? The foremost step to be taken with regards to co-passenger's safety is that we should be pro-active in abiding to the requisites of safe driving and safe traveling.

How can we raise a question that a car should be equipped with latest safety equipment when we do not even pay attention to those safety features which are present in the car (irrespective of variants/ brand) ? Why are we not taking the initiative of using the available safety features and pointing out the features which are not available ?

We should accept the fact that at large we as followers of safe driving do not completely follow the right path for safe driving. I am saying this because if we compare ourselves to other country's drivers we surely will fall short in terms of implementing safety norms for passengers. Not every car in foreign nations comes with 10 airbags but what actually makes the difference is the inculcated habits and culture towards being a safe driver and a rider.

In the forum itself there is a thread of pillion rider's safety similarly we should be mindful of our co-passengers too. No agency can teach us basic rules of safety and no car brand can make a 100% safe car. So, the ultimate step towards enlightening the motoring community pan-India is to be taken by common drivers like us and implement it in the very next trip instead of doing wishful thinking that cars should have 6 or 10 or 20 airbags or the govt. should formulate policies about safer cars for future.

I am not a technical person but what ever little bit knowledge I have on airbags, based on that I understand that it's a sensor dependent device. However, a rear seat belt just requires our hands to clip it.

I feel we all should from tomorrow itself inculcate this habit of making our co-passengers wear rear seat belts and those who are planning to go out today with family please try to inculcate this good habit right away. Maybe, in future the safety parameters will change but why should we wait for it ? At least, we can change a small habit and improve our safety. A small step in this direction will be a giant leap in the safe driving.

If I have written something wrong I beg for forgiveness. But every person here holds dear to me.

Please ride safe and drive safe!

Thanks.
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Old 4th June 2014, 22:03   #80
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by ad3952n View Post
I feel we all should from tomorrow itself inculcate this habit of making our co-passengers wear rear seat belts and those who are planning to go out today with family please try to inculcate this good habit right away. Maybe, in future the safety parameters will change but why should we wait for it ? At least, we can change a small habit and improve our safety. A small step in this direction will be a giant leap in the safe driving.


Thanks.
You are absolutely right. In majority of the instances, whenever I have ridden in anybody else's car's rear seat, I have found that the buckle has been pushed into the boot, or entirely removed.

And the reason is the most foolish, people say that the things juts out and hurts them while sitting. People definitely do need to get educated about such things.

However car manufacturers are to be blamed too, especially in India.

Airbags only being offered in fully loaded top variants, not as options is an inconsiderate move.

Then, the infamous removal of structural components too is manufacturers fault. So, at the end the government can be majorly blamed.

No rules for rear seatbelt, no car testing program, no established transportation safety board.

All these factors form amor loopholes that everybody takes advantage of. In places like Delhi and Chandigarh, 15 years back, nobody wore a seatbelt in the front too.

But today, almost everybody has to wear a seatbelt because the checking for the same has grown. So, people work because of fear, and fear is what needs to be inculcated.

I think the government instead of fighting on petty issues, needs to grow up and take te lives of it's citizens seriously. The life of an Indian has no worth at all.
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Old 4th June 2014, 22:27   #81
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
However car manufacturers are to be blamed too, especially in India.
Prakhar, see instead of blaming them why can't we as drivers improve our driving habits ?

Quote:
Airbags only being offered in fully loaded top variants, not as options is an inconsiderate move.
Why the already present safety features not put to use instead of complaining about the absence of some of them ?

Quote:
Then, the infamous removal of structural components too is manufacturers fault. So, at the end the government can be majorly blamed.
Govt. is not at fault rather it is the thought process of the auto makers which has developed over the span of time about the mindsets of the Indian drivers at large.

Quote:
No rules for rear seatbelt, no car testing program, no established transportation safety board.
Why should there be a rule for everything ? All of us as educated people should follow the basic safety rules. It should be spontaneous and imperative if we need to be safe. It is as simple as self defense.

Quote:
In places like Delhi and Chandigarh, 15 years back, nobody wore a seatbelt in the front too. But today, almost everybody has to wear a seatbelt because the checking for the same has grown. So, people work because of fear, and fear is what needs to be inculcated.
Prakhar, out of fear a circus tiger can learn to sit on a chair but that is called a well trained tiger. However, I feel we should educate people about the fear of loss of life due to non-usage of seat belts rather than telling them to wear a seat belt due to the fear of challan.

Quote:
I think the government instead of fighting on petty issues, needs to grow up and take te lives of it's citizens seriously. The life of an Indian has no worth at all.
A human life is always precious Prakhar, irrespective of nationality. Why do we need to be dependent on the govt. for protecting our lives on roads ? Don't we as educated citizens have certain duties to fulfill in terms of road safety ?

Prakhar dekho, Every individual is accountable for his/ her own safety (at least on roads) as neither the RTO nor the transport ministry officials will stand at every crossing or signal to guide us. It is imperative for us to use our common sense and drive safe.

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Old 4th June 2014, 22:35   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Looking at the autopsy report of Munde, its clear a seatbelt would NOT have saved him.

He was sitting against the door that was impacted, so its likely the door handle smashed into his stomach/liver area with great force puncturing it.
Unlikely as the liver is on the right side, well protected under the ribs. The car was hit on left side rear door. I feel that he was tossed around due to the impact and thereby sustained these injuries. Seat belts might have actually saved him from liver trauma and also maybe from atlanto-axial dislocation.
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Old 4th June 2014, 22:39   #83
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

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Originally Posted by ad3952n View Post
Prakhar, see instead of blaming them why can't we as drivers improve our driving habits ?

Thanks
I think you are missing the point here.
The prevalence of the invincible and heropanti attitude of people especially in North India can only be defeated by the law.

No amount of education can change them. At the end of the day, isn't saving lives our utmost objective.

The most easily achievable and the most widespread effect would be of fear among people.

At the end of the day, the act becomes a habit. Even in highly developed nations, its the law after-all that is keeping everything in order in a civilised manner. Have huge amounts of fine, and large jail periods for majority of offences, but increase all this gradually. This will install a sense in people, gradually. In places like Europe, fines are so high, people don't dare to break laws.
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Old 4th June 2014, 22:41   #84
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Another place where this seatbeat practice has to start is the RTO.

While the RTO officer has a strict demeanour and is all about following rules "at any cost", he neither asks the candidate taking the drivers license test to wear a seatbelt, nor does he wear one. Go figure
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Old 4th June 2014, 22:58   #85
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
He was sitting against the door that was impacted, so its likely the door handle smashed into his stomach/liver area with great force puncturing it.
Here is the picture of SX4. Hardly any damage to the door. Unlikely that the door handle would protruded that much to cause injury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
Unlikely as the liver is on the right side, well protected under the ribs. The car was hit on left side rear door. I feel that he was tossed around due to the impact and thereby sustained these injuries. Seat belts might have actually saved him from liver trauma and also maybe from atlanto-axial dislocation.
Seems more like it.
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Old 4th June 2014, 23:01   #86
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
The prevalence of the invincible and heropanti attitude of people especially in North India can only be defeated by the law.
Such people do not hold the law in any respect. Until and unless they face the loss they will never understand the importance of safe driving.

Quote:
No amount of education can change them. At the end of the day, isn't saving lives our utmost objective.
No law can change them either. Instead of giving the responsibility of our lives to someone else why can't we be safe on our own ?

Quote:
The most easily achievable and the most widespread effect would be of fear among people.
It will be temporary. Till we do not inculcate the importance of safety in ourselves until then no amount of fear can make us feel safe. It is actually a sad thing that we have to feel the fear to accept a norm rather than understand it's importance in a normal way.

Quote:
At the end of the day, the act becomes a habit.
At the risk of being off topic, Prakhar, we both live in Noida; In 2012 the rule of removing tints was implemented but don't we come across cars in Noida that still have Black tints ? Until we understand and appreciate a logic any act will seem to be baseless.

Quote:
Have huge amounts of fine, and large jail periods for majority of offences, but increase all this gradually. This will install a sense in people, gradually. In places like Europe, fines are so high, people don't dare to break laws.
Prakhar see, Fines in India are no big deal even if it's 1000 or 2000 because of certain obvious reasons. No matter whether we impose heavy fines in one-go or gradually, the first thing that needs to develop is a healthy and positive way of driving. Not just the fines Prakhar, in foreign countries even a child is inculcated with safe riding habits so people over there are more alert about safety not because it saves money rather it save their lives as well as their loved ones.

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Old 4th June 2014, 23:09   #87
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwin489
Another place where this seatbeat practice has to start is the RTO. While the RTO officer has a strict demeanour and is all about following rules "at any cost", he neither asks the candidate taking the drivers license test to wear a seatbelt, nor does he wear one. Go figure
Don't know about other RTOs, but looks like Kerala RTOs are different. I bought a CBR-250R in Kerala and the registration is scheduled for Saturday. And I have been asked to present myself there with the bike at 10:30AM with the following :
- attested address proof
- 2 photographs
- copy of bike's insurance
- helmet
So looks like change is happening, albeit slowly and maybe only in certain states. Don't know whether seat-belt is insisted on for car licence/registration.
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Old 5th June 2014, 00:21   #88
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Looking at the autopsy report of Munde, its clear a seatbelt would NOT have saved him.

He was sitting against the door that was impacted, so its likely the door handle smashed into his stomach/liver area with great force puncturing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
Unlikely as the liver is on the right side, well protected under the ribs. The car was hit on left side rear door. I feel that he was tossed around due to the impact and thereby sustained these injuries. Seat belts might have actually saved him from liver trauma and also maybe from atlanto-axial dislocation.
+1 to that, doc. The left door seems to have only minimal damage. I too firmly believe belting up would have saved the Minister. Side airbags would only have offered extra protection.

The primary issue, though was jumping a red light.
I don't know why we break even such basic traffic rules.
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Old 5th June 2014, 05:06   #89
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Default Re: Seatbelt could have saved Munde's life & How litigation spurred automobile safety

Check the below link from Times of India.

Hope the Government comes up with stringent rules and regulations for seat belts and helmets.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/36069870.cms?
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Old 5th June 2014, 05:17   #90
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Default Re: Tragic News: Gopinath Munde passes away in road accident

As per the below report, initial probe blames Indica's driver.

Forensic experts and investigators from Tughlaq Road police station say prima facie the driver of the Indica, Gurvinder Singh, was most likely was at fault. Police may summon Singh for questioning later this week or rearrest him, if required, they said.

"Investigating officers did not find any skid marks along the route taken by Munde which suggests his car was well within the speed limit. However, skid marks measuring 31-32 feet were found on the Aurobindo Marg-Tughlaq Road stretch used by the Indica. The marks suggest the car tyres on the right side of the Indica had swerved for about 16 feet," said a senior officer. He added that the minister's driver said Munde did not allow him to drive beyond the speed limit even on empty stretches. Apart from this, Munde's Maruti SX4 had already crossed 2/3rd of the intersection when it was hit, he added.

For full report please see the below link..

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/36076885.cms
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