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Old 10th December 2014, 08:52   #406
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Default re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service *EDIT: Banned in Delhi, Telangana, Thailand & Spain*

Uber is banned in Spain and Thailand yesterday. This adds to the other nationwide bans that Uber faces in Germany, France, Netherlands etc.

It seems India is being liberal by still allowing Uber to operate in other cities!

Quote:
A run of bad news for Uber continued on Tuesday, when Spain and Thailand ordered the ride-sharing service to cease operations in the two countries.

In Madrid, a commercial court judge sided with a taxi association complaint, saying that Uber must cease driving in Spain until a lawsuit contesting its right to operate can be heard. In Bangkok, the Thai transport authorities ordered Uber to shut down after finding that its drivers lacked the registration and insurance needed to operate commercial vehicles, Reuters reported.

Just one day earlier, officials in New Delhi, the Indian capital, ordered Uber to cease its operations there after one of its drivers was accused of raping a passenger.
source: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/te...ions.html?_r=0

Last edited by noopster : 10th December 2014 at 11:11. Reason: Added extract of the article in keeping with fair use policy
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Old 10th December 2014, 08:53   #407
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Default Re: The Indian Taxi Revolution - Uber, Ola, TaxiforSure, Meru etc.

The incident is bad, yet I have following submissions:

- What sanctity does licencing brings in? The government says Uber is operating without a formal registration with the transport department; well what difference is there between Uber and those which are registered? I doubt even the licencing department would be able to throw any light on it.

- Public infrastructure in the city is atleast a decade behind the requirements and thus commuters have to use these services. With market liquidity and availability of funds, people use these services more frequently then before; if the government cannot improve public infrastructure, they should atleast facilitate such services through proper guidelines and operating processes. Uber in this case was operating without a registration - AGREED, but they were operating openly, why no one from the transport department jumped out of their seats then?

- If the police verification is so important, and in this case either police verification was done incorrectly or was not done at all (fake documents), why the authorities have jumped with a decision for Uber to stop and left the "driver verification work" of police on "further investigations" and mind you - Police is doing the investigation on "Police verification" - a clear case of self review and thus may not be transparent. More so it is the same police which will not wear seat belts (while driving) and no helmets (while riding), will park their personal cars in no parking areas (leaving a Delhi Police file / cap / or their police ka danda - on the dash board) !

It's time to bring the house in order, and simple reflex / knee jerk action may not be the solution. One needs these services and that's it, make them safe.

Last edited by i74js : 10th December 2014 at 08:58.
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Old 10th December 2014, 09:45   #408
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Thumbs down re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service *EDIT: Banned in Delhi, Telangana, Thailand & Spain*

Uber is now in deep soup over non-BGC of its affiliated drivers.
This fellow looks like a seriously dangerous criminal.

Uber not finding about it will definitely put them more deeper in an already horrible position.

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Btw, Uber is also now banned in Hyderabad. Some association has banned them. However some of the attached cabbies are operating illegaly. Saw this news running on NDTV, just a few minutes back while having breakfast.
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Old 10th December 2014, 09:50   #409
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Default re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service *EDIT: Banned in Delhi, Telangana, Thailand & Spain*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
Btw, Uber is also now banned in Hyderabad. Some association has banned them.
Uber has been banned in Telangana by the Transport Department.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...cle6676938.ece

Not just Uber, all app based cab services. Get ready for 21 rupees per km taxi services once again.
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Old 10th December 2014, 09:52   #410
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Default re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service *EDIT: Banned in Delhi, Telangana, Thailand & Spain*

You can ban everywhere, I have a feeling that FSOs like Meru may also be supporting Ban Uber privately. For the past ear or so I have only used Ola or Uber. In fact a week ago, I needed to get from Gurgaon or Kailash Colony, Ola did not have anything available for at least an hour and a half, my son-in-law (I do not have a Uber account) found one on Uber and it was there within ten minutes.
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Old 10th December 2014, 10:00   #411
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I am equally perplexed at this move by the govt. if uber didn't exist, that particular car with that particular driver would have still been licensed to run a taxi for hire. And could well have been used by some passenger who would have been at the same risk. Uber merely connected them as a platform. You can't arbitrarily ban the service. It's like banning Amazon or eBay if a product sold on it causes some harm to a consumer. These are criminal offences by individuals and beyond a point you cannot penalise the environment.

If we are banning all concerned, then ban the car manufacturer as well who's car the rapist was driving, the dealership who sold the car, the Delhi municipality that maintains the road on which the car was being driven, the restaurant from where the young unfortunate lady left.

There are serious lapses in our overall security environment with offenders further bolstered by a pitiful justice delivery system. Sort the basics instead of lashing out at all the wrong places.
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Old 10th December 2014, 10:11   #412
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Default Re: The Indian Taxi Revolution - Uber, Ola, TaxiforSure, Meru etc.

There are failure on multiple fronts

1. Government is supposed to define clear, comprehensive and fool-proof regulations for any business to run.

2. Businesses are supposed to adhere to any defined regulations. Not as a goodwill gesture, but this should be strictly adhered to. If regulations are not good enough, any long term business would want to set higher standards to ensure the brand name is not tarnished.

3. Individuals are supposed to be aware of situations and take appropriate caution (and i very clearly understand that i will get slammed for saying this).

There has been collective failure on all three fronts.

I think it is good that Delhi Government has taken a decision to ban (at least temporarily) Uber and other taxies. Sure there will be an inconvenience to a lot of consumers, but the truth is

1. The company needs to be accountable.
2. The company needs to comply to rules.
3. The company needs to stop masquerading and put up its real face (which could have tax implications too).

Sure it should be allowed to re-enter, but before that Government needs to put regulations in place, and if Uber can comply with these regulations, it should be allowed to run "legally" compliant services.
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Old 10th December 2014, 10:15   #413
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Default re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service

Problems seem to be mounting for Uber. Yet another Uber driver is now under the scanner on charges of raping a female customer. This time in Chicago.
Quote:
Chicago police said on Tuesday they are investigating an allegation that a driver for the online car service Uber raped a female customer.

Chicago police said in a statement that they have been in contact with the woman as well as Uber personnel, but declined to give further details.

Uber spokeswoman Jennifer Mullin called the incident "appalling and unacceptable." She said the company immediately removed the driver from the Uber platform when it learned of the incident, and is cooperating with police in the investigation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6298476.html

Last edited by noopster : 10th December 2014 at 11:28. Reason: Added extract in keeping with fair use practices
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Old 10th December 2014, 10:27   #414
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Default re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service *EDIT: Banned in Delhi, Telangana, Thailand & Spain*

I think Uber will sue the government for the arbitary bans. Because it has been operating in India Legally in compliance with RBI norms. So, it's not like no one didn't know about it. Just because government babus are clueless about technology and ban them saying they have little stake in the process or is not functioning like normal taxis is uber riduculous!

As mentioned before, other cab companies have huge interest to see uber go out of business. The contempt for companies that leverage technology in India are at an all time high. From e-commerce vs brick and mortar to app based taxi services. Those who refuse to move with the times have huge interests to destroy those who do. Ofcourse the fact still remains that BGV still need to be carried out by all cab companies.
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Old 10th December 2014, 10:36   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Uber is banned in Spain and Thailand yesterday. This adds to the other nationwide bans that Uber faces in Germany, France, Netherlands etc.



It seems India is being liberal by still allowing Uber to operate in other cities!



source: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/te...ions.html?_r=0

No offence sir but please do try and understand the issues as well instead of just posting a link and stating a resultant opinion.

1. In several countries, UBER undertakes a much wider gamut of operation I.e. It can connect any driver and car, even private cars as an UBER carrier. This obviously attracts questioning of a host of legal issues as to whether they can effectively charge for a ride without a commercial taxi permit. It's like a paid carpool in a manner of speaking amongst people who don't know each other, facilitated by UBER so perhaps does tread on some legal grey area. In India, this is NOT the case since only commercially licensed vehicles are deployed via uber.

2. As a service they've obviously hit the taxi operator markets heavily so effectively this is a battle fought by most taxi unions against UBER. Please do bear in mind that in all countries, whether developed or less developed, there are various pressure points operating - political, taxi unions being impacted and resultant legal court battles.

3. From a legal standpoint, if the vehicles in india are duly licensed to operate their vehicles in the manner customers are using them, then there is no legal basis to prevent a technology platform from connecting the service.

4. By the way, even established service providers which are branded car hire services, when they are full up, outsource to private hire services.

5. There have been several initiatives to connect regular cabs through a radio solution to facilitate better business for such cabbies, being mooted or considered by taxi unions. If an untoward incident happens with one such cab would you shut down the radio service?

If you feel UBER should be shut down in India then please also consider on what legal ground based on existing laws. If a law is put in place categorically to shut it down it would be useful to examine whether it expected or sought to impose a higher responsibility on UBER or other app based services than is otherwise imposed on its more traditional competitor services.

On a related note, given the scale of operations of such platforms I feel it would be a balanced approach to perhaps require stringent guidelines on such platforms to do more thorough background checks of drivers, cars, car owners, proof of ownership and insurance etc. but ultimately if despite all these measures an untoward incident occurs then again a sensible approach should be taken towards resulting legal actions.

By pure coincidence I'm typing this post sitting in an UBER cab.
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Old 10th December 2014, 10:47   #416
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Default re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
If you feel UBER should be shut down in India then please also consider on what legal ground based on existing laws. If a law is put in place categorically to shut it down it would be useful to examine whether it expected or sought to impose a higher responsibility on UBER or other app based services than is otherwise imposed on its more traditional competitor services. .
The major problem with Uber in India is majority of their cabs are All India permit cabs with no license to run with in City. So essentially any one with a yellow board can enroll as Uber driver. In Bangalore airport Uber cabs are not allowed in the airport premises. Neither they pay the airport charges for picking up passengers. They park their car on the highway. When ever they get a booking, just drive in and pick up the passenger. So this in a way is being unjust to the radio cabs which pay the airport convenience charges. I am in no way supporting taxi drivers, but a level playing field is mandatory in every domain. if unregulated this will result in every one becoming a cab driver, since what they supposedly earn is much more than may be a doctor earns. I am not complaining about the salary here. But why don't they spent equal time and money in verifying the anecdotes of the drivers as well.


Being tech company is not a licence to do anything.Tomorrow I can develop an app to help thieves steal easily. Since there is no law to regulate that I can say no one should question me.

Last edited by noopster : 10th December 2014 at 11:26. Reason: No personal attacks on Team BHP
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Old 10th December 2014, 10:53   #417
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Default re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service

Yet another Uber story!!
Quote:
A San Francisco driver was charged on Monday with misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter over the death of a six-year old girl he allegedly ran over while searching for a customer on the taxi-service app Uber. The case once again highlighted many regulatory issues that the disruptive tech company is facing across the world and in the US (even on his home turf in San Francisco), even as India is roiling with the reported rape of a female client by a criminal who insinuated himself as an Uber driver.

Immigrant cabbie Syed Muzaffar was looking for a fare with the taxi-service app when he reportedly ran into Sofia Liu, her mother Ang Liu, and her brother Anthony at a pedestrian crossing on New Year's Eve 2013.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...w/45442575.cms

Politically motivated or otherwise, Uber is on for some tough times ahead.

Last edited by noopster : 10th December 2014 at 11:37. Reason: Added extract in keeping with fair use practices
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Old 10th December 2014, 11:14   #418
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Default re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service

OK all the Govt can ban Uber I do not have issue with this, it is an insane knee jerk reaction nevertheless.
But I am still finding answer for questions:
- If action is because for not performing background check:
Then let govt show that they have recruited all TTR, Bus drivers, conductors by performing Background check. Else will they stop the Govt Bus and trains?
- If the action is on Uber launch immediate investigation into other providers and see if they are flouting any norms. And not take action on Uber till then.
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Old 10th December 2014, 11:44   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
The major problem with Uber in India is majority of their cabs are All India permit cabs with no license to run with in City. So essentially any one with a yellow board can enroll as Uber driver. In Bangalore airport Uber cabs are not allowed in the airport premises. Neither they pay the airport charges for picking up passengers. They park their car on the highway. When ever they get a booking, just drive in and pick up the passenger. So this in a way is being unjust to the radio cabs which pay the airport convenience charges. I am in no way supporting taxi drivers, but a level playing field is mandatory in every domain. if unregulated this will result in every one becoming a cab driver, since what they supposedly earn is much more than may be a doctor earns. I am not complaining about the salary here. But why don't they spent equal time and money in verifying the anecdotes of the drivers as well.


Being tech company is not a licence to do anything.Tomorrow I can develop an app to help thieves steal easily. Since there is no law to regulate that I can say no one should question me.
1. I like Uber and I use it. There are several similar service providers that I don't like and therefore don't use or use with lesser frequency. My opinion on what I said above applies generically as a concept to all similar service providers, Uber or others, regardless of whether or not I like the individual service.

2. To my knowledge (but I've not researched this) without an All India Permit (AIP) you cannot service inter city travel, but with an AIP you can service intra city as well as inter city. For instance if I book a car from Orix with an All India Permit, it can serve me throughout the day within Mumbai as well as take me to Pune and back for my work. The same goes with numerous other cab companies who we have corporate tie ups with. They give us cars for the entire day both for within the city as well as outside using their AIPs.
Again, I reserve final opinion on this in the absence of specific research but that is my broad understanding. Happy to be corrected with something that has specific backing.

3. There are laws on where you can park, where parking fees must be paid etc. These are there to be enforced against all vehicles, Uber or otherwise. If they are not paying airport parking fees or parking on the highway, please do fine them for wrong parking. They'll be forced to either stay parked at the airport and pay parking fees or face consequences. The result cannot be banning Uber. Just as for all the traffic rules infringement all over the city by Uber cabs, regular cabs, private cars and public vehicles like buses, the solution is to enforce the rule and fine them in accordance with law - not ban the entire network concerned.

PS: As far as developing apps is concerned, if you are doing something whose primary objective is to help thieves in stealing, then you could and would be liable under Indian criminal laws for abetting a crime.

Uber isn't an app created to facilitate breaking traffic laws. It is to connect licensed cabs to passengers. If there are cars breaking certain traffic or other rules some of the time then the legal consequences of that must be brought forth.

In all of this you still haven't pointed out one thing with any valid or rational basis - what legal ground is there at all to ban the service. As mentioned in my previous post - I don't doubt that it may well be the right time to introduce some additional guidelines to regulate such platforms and services with a balanced perspective in mind for basic safeguards. Even if that has to be considered it may be a fair point - why the instant reaction must be to ban the service I don't understand.

Last edited by noopster : 10th December 2014 at 12:04. Reason: Quoted post has been edited
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Old 10th December 2014, 11:56   #420
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Default re: Review: Uber Premium Taxi Service

Please understand the issue and ban in proper perspective.

Uber is banned in Delhi though after this incident, but not charged for rape, which is anyway charged on the offender. It is banned for not following Delhi regulations of a registered point-to-point taxi operator. There may be more companies committing the offense (Ola, Taxiforsure, etc) but all will be banned in due course, till they register themselves with Delhi Administration and follow the guidelines set out. Once they comply they will anyway start operating again. I don't understand the argument against the ban due the above reason. Are you saying that there should be no regulation in a city, and just beacause it is a MNC they are not supposed to follow any local regulation? What sort of an argument is this?

If Uber calls themselves not a taxi operator, how are they issuing a receipt for the services availed? How are they billing and charging service tax without giving any service? The taxi guy who ferried you does not raise any bill on you. It is Uber who raises the bill. Therefore, legally they are the operator. Operating through loopholes of law does not make any co. whether Indian or MNC genuine and legal.

In our zeal to support technologically advanced operations, we should not end up supporting the wrong side of law.
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