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Old 27th June 2014, 18:20   #16
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

I have seen parents leave their sleeping kids in the car when parked-> engine running -> A/c on . That is NOT recommended. Atleast one adult should be inside the car , along with the child. The main reason , is that only the adults can sense the difference in smell inside the car , if there comes a chance of a/c gas leak. They can open the windows, in case they need fresh air etc.
I dont have the link to share with , but few years back there was an incident in my area, where 4 adults were sleeping inside a car, running with a/c on , and all died inside the car because , the gas started leaking inside and they got suffocated and went unconscious in sleep and died on the spot. I know it is a rare case, but why risk it for our dear ones. ALWAYS have an adult near the children inside the car.

Last edited by undead : 27th June 2014 at 18:22.
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Old 27th June 2014, 19:06   #17
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

What if someone drives off with your child inside the car?

Think about it!
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Old 27th June 2014, 19:08   #18
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

A very useful thread for car users. Thanks GTO.

A simple experiment to understand about this. Park the car under the sun. Take two glasses of water, Keep one on top of the bonnet and the other inside the car. Check the temperature difference after 15 minutes and one can understand the seriousness of leaving kids/pets inside the car.

PS: Most of the time, I try to park under a shade and do not mind walking 100-200 meters. Somehow I practiced this and one of the reason is my car colour being black.
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Old 27th June 2014, 19:28   #19
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

I have seen many parents leaving children behind in the cars with AC on in front of plaza's or supermarkets. This is mainly due to lack of awareness. Such videos will surely help in creating awareness.
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Old 27th June 2014, 20:11   #20
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Can someone help elaborate on what exactly goes down in the car when its locked in sun.

Because of the green-house effect does the oxygen start depleting? I mean there would be enough oxygen in the car for an infant to survive a couple of hours is what I think but I think there are other variables in play.
It gets hotter inside a parked car than the outside air temperature, especially so with dark/black coloured cars. Heat from sun rays is of a short wavelength, which can pass through the glass windows/windshoelds. When passing through, it is converted to long wavelength, which cannot pass through glass, and hence the heat energy is trapped within the car. Since there is little or no way for this heat to escape, the interior temperature of the car rises quite quickly. This heat increases the body temperature (normal = ~37C) as well, and when it crosses ~41C it results in a heat stroke, which if not treated immediately can have grave consequences. (interior air temperature will be much higher than 41C)

While the carbon dioxide produced by an infant in a closed car (CO2 absorbs heat easily, thereby increases air temperature) can contribute to the increase in temperature, by itself it isn't as harmful since the cabin is not airtight and all the oxygen won't get depleted completely. Oxygen deprivation is highly unlikely, unless you happen to have James Bond's submarine car, or exhaust leaking into the cabin.

So, the problem is increase in interior temperature. Not an issue when parking after sunset.


Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
...I leave my son (now 3) in the car only for a two-three minute errand (like buying milk from the kiosk), and leave window sufficiently ajar (think three fingers wide), especially if he is really asleep.

I find it rather impractical to carry him out at every point for a short errand when he's sleepy.
2-3 minutes is probably ok, but what if for some reason you get distracted (you run in to an old friend/relative, there's a queue at the shop, etc) and forget you left your kid in the car? It shouldn't take more than 20 seconds to take your kid out of the car right? Is the risk really worth saving such a miniscule amount of time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by motomaverick View Post
Dont think its a good practice to leave a child whether sleeping or otherwise in an unattended car. Even if AC is on we should not because you never know what will fail in a car and cause a spark. After all its our own blood we are speaking of here, we need to be more considerate. Whether running 2 minute errand or 2 hours our child should be with us all the time. A car is just a mechanical component to carry us from point A to B and not something we use to store living beings.
Yup, better to leave the kid with a nanny/neighbour, than in a car.


@all: To better understand this issue, drive out around 1-2pm. Park your car under the sun (not in shade). Switch off engine and AC. Raise all the windows. Start a stopwatch. Record how long it takes for you to feel uncomfortably hot. Now imagine how a child who is much more sensitive to temperature changes would feel.

My guess is you won't last 5 mins on a hot day. Not after the no tint rule.


OT: Does the remote work when the engine is running? I haven't tried this, so would like to know if someone else has.
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Old 27th June 2014, 21:02   #21
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnidumolu View Post
My kid is 1 year old and I also do just that.
I think it is a bad idea to leave a kid all day in the car A/C. There is a high chance of CO poisoning if the car A/C is on all day in the internal circulation mode and the exhaust pipe has some kind of block or the car is in a closed garage. Please search for CO poisoning and you should get info. The least you can do is to open a window by at least an inch so that there is air circulation and if the child cries, you can hear it and/or have the A/C in the external air inlet mode.

Thanks
Madhav

Last edited by GTO : 28th June 2014 at 15:32. Reason: Quoted post edited
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Old 27th June 2014, 23:06   #22
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

I think it is a bad idea to leave your kid even for a minute in the Car with engine on. Regardless of how reliable the vehicle there is always an off chance of a freak mishap which will cause endless repent and great sorrow. Like wearing seatbelts, eventhough inconvenient I feel it is better to just adapt to this, take your kids along or plan your errands in a way this situation does not arise.

If you absolutely have to, for just a couple of mins where you don't let the car and kid out of your sight, where outside temperatures are not very hot, shutting down the engine with windows rolled down about 1/4th and car locked sounds acceptable. This may still be dangerous incase of slightly older children with enough strength to release the parking brake.

I will leave it to the experts to point out if this is a potential danger scenario.
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Old 27th June 2014, 23:13   #23
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bravo6 View Post
OT: Does the remote work when the engine is running? I haven't tried this, so would like to know if someone else has.
The remote works even when the engine is running. I have tested that on my Safari.
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Old 27th June 2014, 23:29   #24
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Can someone help elaborate on what exactly goes down in the car when its locked in sun.
At my work place, I have to park my car under the sun due to lack of parking space and also due to the fact that parking the car away invites some sort of vandalism.
By noon, I try to park my car in shade. Believe me, I first open two doors, let the hot air get away and then get inside the car after 40 seconds or so. It does get real hot inside the car, real hot.

Best way to evaluate is : Park your car under the sun, switch off engine and AC, sit in the car. In my car, I cannot even hold the steering wheel for more than 5 secs. Keep water with you. I tried this once to protect new engine of my car ( I thought idling with AC under sun in afternoon will reduce engine life as my car had barely done 500 kms ) and my friend was attending interview. Within 5 mins, I was out.

Never leave any kid inside the car while you are away. What if you are away for a minute or so and somebody rear ends the car ?
Never leave any kid inside the car with A/C on ( irrespective of mode ). Why ? Simple, a stationary car under the sun with A/C running is likely to overheat more than a car moving around under the sun with A/C on.

When a car is moving, certain amount of air velocity hits radiator. In stationary car, this reduces to almost and pratically zero. This is torture test for any car, ranging from Nano to Benz. The drastically reduced air velocity hitting radiator affects overall cooling and engine might overheat. No, it wont happen in 10 mins, but its likely to happen in 30 mins. Ambient temperature also plays a major role.

How I know this : I work for a radiator manufacturer firm. The radiator is validated after many tests. One such test is Lab test. The automotive application is stationary in lab and engine is run at high/peak rpm. If overheating is not observed after many hours, its highly unlikely that the cooling performance of that specific radiator for that particular vehicle specs will fail. Manufacturers take a lot of care, but its not fool proof. Beyond a time limit, overheating will start which is very obvious.

This overheating might lead to bigger consequences, may be even fire. So the option of having a kid/pet in car with A/C running is not free from danger.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 27th June 2014 at 23:33.
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Old 28th June 2014, 01:32   #25
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
When a car is moving, certain amount of air velocity hits radiator. In stationary car, this reduces to almost and pratically zero. This is torture test for any car, ranging from Nano to Benz. The drastically reduced air velocity hitting radiator affects overall cooling and engine might overheat. No, it wont happen in 10 mins, but its likely to happen in 30 mins. Ambient temperature also plays a major role
Won't the radiator fans create the necessary airflow when the car has stopped? I mean what you said above probably applies to air-cooled engines, but liquid cooled engines come with fans AFAIK, so that the optimum temperature is maintained regardless of vehicle speed.
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Old 28th June 2014, 09:30   #26
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bravo6 View Post
Won't the radiator fans create the necessary airflow when the car has stopped? I mean what you said above probably applies to air-cooled engines, but liquid cooled engines come with fans AFAIK, so that the optimum temperature is maintained regardless of vehicle speed.
A certain amount of velocity is taken into consideration at the time of designing radiator. This velocity cannot be just the fan, else the fan can get excessively loud. That would also mean at high speeds when air is directed towards radiator , the operating temperature would be reached a bit late and fan might never get operational.
A balance has to be arrived at with air velocity. Ambient temperature also comes into picture. Water's boiling point is 100 Deg C., with coolant/rust inhibitor it increases to around 111 Deg C. Now, if the engine is operating at 95 Deg C., the water+coolant mixture will have a slightly higher temperature. Cooling it down by more than 20 Deg. C. is difficult with air provided by Fan only.
The temperature difference to be achieved (i.e. the temperature of water+coolant which has to be brought down sufficiently for it again carry heat from engine ) is not possible with air from Fan only.
A classic example is higher than normal temperature which is reached by cars in Desert. Even with air velocity being sufficient, the cooling required ( w.r.t ambient temperature ) is not enough and many times a car has to be stopped for a while to cool the engine down.
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Old 28th June 2014, 15:38   #27
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
I leave my son (now 3) in the car only for a two-three minute errand....

I'm open to changing my mind - but somehow I don't think it is a serious concern for short errands (2-3 mins) esp when the child is sleepy.
What if:

- You are unable to return to the car within the '3 minute' window due to your falling sick / fainting / getting mugged / distracted / any other emergency situation?

- Someone breaks the window and - God forbid - kidnaps your child? Possible in less than 60 seconds.

I feel leaving any child unattended in a public place (even if within a car) is just asking for trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnidumolu View Post
When she is sleeping I will leave her in the car with AC on
Quote:
Originally Posted by undead View Post
I have seen parents leave their sleeping kids in the car when parked-> engine running -> A/c on . That is NOT recommended.
Related Thread (Cop found dead inside a car. Can Air Conditioning kill?)
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Old 28th June 2014, 20:06   #28
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I completely agree with GTO. leaving a child unattended is like inviting trouble. I have seen parents leaving the children with the engine running. So scary !!

Keeping the fan on is also a bad, even we adults feel suffocated after a while if we are only on fan. Kids are even sensitive.
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Old 28th June 2014, 22:38   #29
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
What if:

- You are unable to return to the car within the '3 minute' window due to your falling sick / fainting / getting mugged / distracted / any other emergency situation?

- Someone breaks the window and - God forbid - kidnaps your child? Possible in less than 60 seconds.

I feel leaving any child unattended in a public place (even if within a car) is just asking for trouble.
GTO,

With due respect - that is hyperbole. I consider that to be fairly low probability events. By that logic, if I were to be mugged / attacked - I'd much rather that it happens without my son around so that he is safe, no matter what happens to me. Personal choice.

None of what you ascribe has happened to me, or even come close. What did happen when my son was ~15 months old was the exact reverse. I had to do a ~5 min errand of picking up door mats from the market. This was old gurgaon, gurudwara road around noon on a saturday. I was crossing the road, son in arm, door mat in the other (after waiting patiently for traffic to clear) - when one biker that was coming from the wrong side came very close to us suddenly and I stopped. At the same time, an alto that was taking a U turn moved to avoid him and banged into me at a slow speed. I lost my balance enough that my son fell down onto the road - I only had enough presence of mind to try and break his fall by landing on my elbows but my son hit the ground almost flat but still impacted the head first. It was sheer luck that there was no third runaway vehicle.

Given how naughty kids are in general and prone to run around (esp now when my kid is 3 and still doesn't understand traffic) - you are advocating taking a lot of small low probability risks to avoid one very big very low probability risk. Nope - doesn't work for me. Personal choices I guess.

That said, I'm overall aligned on the video - leaving kids for extended durations is a bad idea. Short 3-4 mins is not. I'm not convinced yet. Sorry.

PS: If this was not India but Europe - I might be fully agreeing with you.
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Old 29th June 2014, 06:31   #30
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Default Re: Safety Video: Don't leave children behind in a parked car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post

Given how naughty kids are in general and prone to run around (esp now when my kid is 3 and still doesn't understand traffic) - you are advocating taking a lot of small low probability risks to avoid one very big very low probability risk. Nope - doesn't work for me. Personal choices I guess.

That said, I'm overall aligned on the video - leaving kids for extended durations is a bad idea. Short 3-4 mins is not. I'm not convinced yet. Sorry.

PS: If this was not India but Europe - I might be fully agreeing with you.
This is my personal take. Reacting to an mishap more often than not lessens impact from it significantly. Kids cannot react with prior knowledge or experience and will panic if something goes wrong, even for small things that can potentially turn into dangerous situations. On the other hand grownups take the necessary action. Personally, I would rather keep my loved one in sight and deal with ensuring they are safe rather than assume they are safe in the car. you never know what can go wrong and they won't be able to fend for themselves.

That being said, I would be comfortable leaving kids only if they are in sight and it takes less than 30 secs to get to them if required.
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