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Old 24th July 2014, 14:07   #31
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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Originally Posted by Voyager-1 View Post
You are right about the taxation in India. Blablacar have quoted the taxation laws (probably from Europe) which considers the payments to the drivers for covering the car running costs, wear and tear as non taxable. They need to work something like this with our RTO/government.
Absolutely corect - I agree with you.

They must first convince the Motor vehicles department to exempt car pooling scenario from the "yellow board" rule. How they would handle car pool offerers who are running a commercial cab is a good thing to wait and watch. Secondly, they should convince Income tax department, to exempt this income from tax stating environmental reason / congestion etc.

Also - If we have a printout for the proof of car-pooling like say a printout from Blablacar, would my private car be exempted from the commerical rule and also, with that proof, If contraband is found in my car, would i be let go scott-free?

I am waiting till they launch operations in full scale in india.
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Old 24th July 2014, 14:24   #32
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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I did not know BTP encourages car pooling.
I don't know exactly what the BTP encourage, but I don't think it is car-pooling with complete strangers. Maybe they encourage it with known colleagues, neighbours, classmates etc. to reduce the traffic congestion.

Left to themselves (without the interference of crime-patronising politicos), no self-respecting police force would want to increase its workload and earn a bad reputation for not being able to control crime. Encouraging car-pooling with complete strangers would have the unwanted effect of increasing the crime rate (including heinous crimes) in a country like India. I think the traffic police (who are only a part of the larger police force) wouldn't want that to happen.

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IF entertainment tax can be leveied on F1 in India, anything is possible. World over, F1 is a "sport" and not entertainment.
I wonder if they charge entertainment tax on something like the IPL (but not international & other domestic cricket matches)?

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I love public transport, but the reason i dont use it is the unavilability of AC facility while commuting in Chennai. I work for a corporate concern and pay TDS. In Return i expect infrastructure in the form of AC buses. Tractor subsidy would not help me in anyway. Since we all pay 100% taxes without any evasion, govt should provide AC facility in buses.
Though the situation is better with the A/C Volvos plying on some routes (these are very comfortable and good value-for-money) the availability of air-conditioned public transport is still quite low. Even the local trains do not have air-conditioned compartments.

In addition to plying exclusive air-conditioned Volvos which suffer from low patronage because of the higher fares, they can have separate A/C sections in the regular buses, with separate entry/exit and a separate conductor (and obviously higher fares). It would work very well at least on the vestibule/bendy buses, where the rear-section can be converted into an A/C space.

Last edited by RSR : 24th July 2014 at 14:28.
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Old 24th July 2014, 15:02   #33
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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I don't know exactly what the BTP encourage, but I don't think it is car-pooling with complete strangers. Maybe they encourage it with known colleagues, neighbours, classmates etc. to reduce the traffic congestion.
I wonder if they charge entertainment tax on something like the IPL (but not international & other domestic cricket matches)?
Yeah !! I am looking out to see if the Govt will amend the laws for accommodating car pooling scenario. OF course it has a benefit on the environment. Will be a good thing to watch out for.

If Blablacar team can give a business propsal, the ministry should approve it.

Oh Yes !! IPL is treated on par with a movie and is very much under entertainment tax. I disagree with the govt law here but no option but to pay. Any "sport" cannot be clubbed under entertainment tax.

I work at Ascendas Taramani and commute using 5C bus. If i had a volvo option, I would use that 5C and trash my santro as my daily commute.
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Old 25th July 2014, 08:31   #34
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
I am not sure why the police would differentiate between a blablacar car-pooler and the cabbie who shouts the destination for filling up empty seat for Rs 20/-or a cabbie who ferries passengers from city 1 to city 2 . By Law, I am driving with people on board, for a fee and expecting reward in return. I guess this amounts to commercialism.
The key difference would be that you are not doing this for profit and this isn't your main job.

Of course the govt. wants a piece of the action, that's why we have yellow boards in the first place. Have even seen bikes in Goa with yellow boards which is basically a taxi for one person.

BTP's carpool might be aimed at reducing city traffic and meant for office commutes, unlike BlaBla, which can be intercity/interstate as well.

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IF entertainment tax can be leveied on F1 in India, anything is possible. World over, F1 is a "sport" and not entertainment.
Haha FIA might not have greased the palms of our politicians, or refused to "let" Force India win a race for a change

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
They must first convince the Motor vehicles department to exempt car pooling scenario from the "yellow board" rule. How they would handle car pool offerers who are running a commercial cab is a good thing to wait and watch. Secondly, they should convince Income tax department, to exempt this income from tax stating environmental reason / congestion etc.
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Yeah !! I am looking out to see if the Govt will amend the laws for accommodating car pooling scenario. OF course it has a benefit on the environment. Will be a good thing to watch out for.
I don't see this kind of thing kicking off in any developing nation. There is a lot of scope for misuse. Private car owners may hire a driver for their idle cars and post it on BlaBla to make a quick buck. Taxi drivers too may convert to white boards to avoid road tax/permit charges and increase their profits.

On the other hand, honest cabbies may vehemently oppose a system that directly affects their livelihoods.

Not unless there is a way to make sure all payments go through BlaBla, which in turn enforces a cap on the per head cost depending on no. of people travelling and vehicle make/model, and handles all the taxation for us.

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Also - If we have a printout for the proof of car-pooling like say a printout from Blablacar, would my private car be exempted from the commerical rule and also, with that proof, If contraband is found in my car, would i be let go scott-free?
I wouldn't count on it. BTW, wouldn't it be easier for anti social elements to transport contraband via bus or train? I mean I've never seen a bus being stopped and checked, but they do (at least randomly) stop cars at checkposts.
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Old 25th July 2014, 11:59   #35
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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The key difference would be that you are not doing this for profit and this isn't your main job.
Of course the govt. wants a piece of the action, that's why we have yellow boards in the first place. Have even seen bikes in Goa with yellow boards which is basically a taxi for one person.
BTP's carpool might be aimed at reducing city traffic and meant for office commutes, unlike BlaBla, which can be intercity/interstate as well.
Haha FIA might not have greased the palms of our politicians, or refused to "let" Force India win a race for a change
I don't see this kind of thing kicking off in any developing nation. There is a lot of scope for misuse. Private car owners may hire a driver for their idle cars and post it on BlaBla to make a quick buck. Taxi drivers too may convert to white boards to avoid road tax/permit charges and increase their profits.
On the other hand, honest cabbies may vehemently oppose a system that directly affects their livelihoods.
Not unless there is a way to make sure all payments go through BlaBla, which in turn enforces a cap on the per head cost depending on no. of people travelling and vehicle make/model, and handles all the taxation for us.
I wouldn't count on it. BTW, wouldn't it be easier for anti social elements to transport contraband via bus or train? I mean I've never seen a bus being stopped and checked, but they do (at least randomly) stop cars at checkposts.
Safety and security being one aspect, I am more interested to know how the company and government react to this. As this business is legitimate, it should need an approval from the ministry. Would ministry approve this business model, since it is against the motor vehicle law of this country? Even if ministry approves this, Would the police/RTO Checks permit me to pass the checking If i am ferrying unknown people in my private car for a fee using blablacar?

As a user or rider i had put questions through my above posted posts.

Now, As a ride provider / private car owner, I am looking at the hassles that i would face by doing social/environmental service. Even assuming, I get credible people to travel with me, i have the below questions

There is a certain business/entertainment which is legal in Amsterdam, but the same business/entertainment is illegal in India. However, that business is still thriving in india, which the govt allows to run illegaly and people use it at thier own risk with the fear of being jailed by police during a raid.

On similar lines, would blablacar launch india operations, without complying to the motor vehicle law and write a disclaimer that "use at your own risk" "we are not liable for passenger's misuse to the car" ?
  • Is Blablacar model, legal as per MV Act in india? (ferrying unknown passengers in a private car for a fee)
  • Would this be communciated to each and every cop/RTO/checkpost?
  • How to handle cases like contraband in luggage?

Oh Yes !!! I have seen Tamil Nadu police check SETC Bangalore Chennai bus, near Ambur. On a lighter note, the constable asked me to open my bag and was shocked to see nothing but my shorts, T-shirt and underwear inside my bag

Most railway stations and Bus-stations have started to check baggage and also there are "prowler dogs" (dogs which apprear to be stray/street dogs but in reality are trained police dogs, which can sniff out contraband at random. They dont need a policeman to accompany them). Given this scenario, blablacar seems to be a good option to ferry the goods and also in case he is caught, he can always pass on the blame to the driver. Since most contraband carriers have connections with influential people, it is easy for them to escape / bail. That too, Blablacar offers "door to door" service at a cheaper price compared to public transport.
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Old 25th July 2014, 12:37   #36
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Would ministry approve this business model, since it is against the motor vehicle law of this country? Even if ministry approves this, Would the police/RTO Checks permit me to pass the checking If i am ferrying unknown people in my private car for a fee using blablacar?
As with any machinery, it takes the right amount of greasing to get everything to work smoothly. We can only speculate.

Quote:
There is a certain business/entertainment which is legal in Amsterdam, but the same business/entertainment is illegal in India. However, that business is still thriving in india, which the govt allows to run illegaly and people use it at thier own risk with the fear of being jailed by police during a raid.
Here, BlaBla will be the sole service provider, which is easy to shutdown. Unlike the "other" business, where there are multiple, independent, possibly organized "service providers," who would be happy to offer kickbacks, shutting down a few of them makes no real difference.
OT: Apparently it's not illegal per se. Further info may not be appropriate to this forum. You can refer to the wiki page for more clarity.

Quote:
On similar lines, would blablacar launch india operations, without complying to the motor vehicle law and write a disclaimer that "use at your own risk" "we are not liable for passenger's misuse to the car" ?
It can work only if it advertises itself as a platform for finding like minded travellers. What you do with them is your responsibility.

Quote:
  • How to handle cases like contraband in luggage?
If your name's on the RC, you're responsible for whatever activity the vehicle is used for. Driver hits someone? You're responsible.
Driver smuggles contraband? You're responsible.
Else anyone might try to be a mule to make a quick buck!


Quote:
Most railway stations and Bus-stations have started to check baggage and also there are "prowler dogs" (dogs which apprear to be stray/street dogs but in reality are trained police dogs, which can sniff out contraband at random. .
Haha haven't used public transport in a few years now. Thanks for the update.

Quote:
They dont need a policeman to accompany them
So they just roam around in the station? What if they bite children?


Only developed nations can afford to think about environmental benefits. Developing nations need to develop first.
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Old 25th July 2014, 14:01   #37
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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Originally Posted by bravo6 View Post
As with any machinery, it takes the right amount of greasing to get everything to work smoothly. We can only speculate.
Here, BlaBla will be the sole service provider, which is easy to shutdown. Unlike the "other" business, where there are multiple, independent, possibly organized "service providers," who would be happy to offer kickbacks, shutting down a few of them makes no real difference.
OT: Apparently it's not illegal per se. Further info may not be appropriate to this forum. You can refer to the wiki page for more clarity.
It can work only if it advertises itself as a platform for finding like minded travellers. What you do with them is your responsibility.
If your name's on the RC, you're responsible for whatever activity the vehicle is used for. Driver hits someone? You're responsible.
Driver smuggles contraband? You're responsible.
Else anyone might try to be a mule to make a quick buck!
Haha haven't used public transport in a few years now. Thanks for the update.

So they just roam around in the station? What if they bite children?
Only developed nations can afford to think about environmental benefits. Developing nations need to develop first.
Thank you for the comments-

I for one will stay away from blablacar, even if i am self-driving a mini bus. I would neither provide nor use their service.

I personally feel the risk involved is too much compared to the environmental benefit it would give. Adding to this, it appears that there are lot of hassles to deal with govt regulators. Taxes & Laws seems to be the biggest deterrent. At least, I for one do not have the time to fight it out with the government, in case I am caught and jailed.

The concept of car pooling with stragers would happen only in a developed country like UK or USA. India still has a long way to go in that.

Blablacar might start as a personal car pool offer site, but finally would end up being a "road-travel" portal similar to redbus.in . The site will be filled with advertisements for Tirupati trips / Pune trips et all and also would see bus owners advertising seats on the site.

Like Snapdeal, which moved from a "deal" site to a commerical shopping site, BlaBlacar will move away from personal car pool site to commercial road travel site displaying offers from indicas to volvo B9Rs.

Last edited by scopriobharath : 25th July 2014 at 14:08.
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Old 25th July 2014, 14:49   #38
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

This may sound weird, but I don't think carpooling will change the impact on the environment in the long run. Here's what we know:
  • Oil reserves will be depleted in the next few decades
  • Electric Vehicles are still far from being commercially viable to replace combustion engines
  • The technology to produce alternate fuels on the same scale as oil is yet to be developed/released. Or rather it won't happen till we buy the last drop of the Shiekh's oil.
  • Forest reserves are on the decline; lesser trees to consume CO2
So, since the quantity of oil is limited, it will produce the same quantity of pollutants or green house gases whether we burn it all up in the next few days or the next few decades. We can only delay the day pollution is maximum, but it is inevitable unless we switch to a cleaner fuel like hydrogen or electricity (hydel/thermal/tidal/nuclear/solar etc)

And with every new vehicle sold, that day draws closer.
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Old 31st July 2014, 00:23   #39
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

A good read, some of you may find it interesting.

http://www.angloitalianfollowus.com/...around-europe/

Spike
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Old 14th January 2015, 20:12   #40
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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A good read, some of you may find it interesting.

http://www.angloitalianfollowus.com/...around-europe/

Spike
It seems to be launched now. http://www.blablacar.in/ is what blablacar.com redirects to when accessed from India.

Sort of like a tinder for car drivers - rating system, you get to choose drivers / passengers etc.

No mention of how taxes are going to be figured out, or licensing norms for that matter.

http://www.blablacar.in/trust-safety-insurance
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Old 16th January 2015, 19:50   #41
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With Govt cracking down on Ola and other app based "transport" providers, Not sure how govt will bring the whip on this one.

Like in my previous post, Govt would loose on income tax and service tax and as per Motor vehicle rules, It is mandatory to have yellow board to ferry people for a "fee"
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Old 16th January 2015, 20:12   #42
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Just went through their Indian site and searched for Bangalore to Chennai to get an idea of the cost per co-traveller. I find it to be very costlier.
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Old 16th January 2015, 20:48   #43
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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With Govt cracking down on Ola and other app based "transport" providers, Not sure how govt will bring the whip on this one.

Like in my previous post, Govt would loose on income tax and service tax and as per Motor vehicle rules, It is mandatory to have yellow board to ferry people for a "fee"
Depends on how they read it in the post-uber era really.

Interesting that you're already thinking of the whip instead of thinking about how technology can make things safer and hence more efficient.

This is technically no different from instantaneous car pooling for a single ride. Did any car pool sites, including those backed / supported by the government get tripped up by such red tape?

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It seems to be launched now. http://www.blablacar.in/ is what blablacar.com redirects to when accessed from India.

Sort of like a tinder for car drivers - rating system, you get to choose drivers / passengers etc.

No mention of how taxes are going to be figured out, or licensing norms for that matter.

http://www.blablacar.in/trust-safety-insurance
LOL @ tinder.

But yes, something like this needs a concerted push which may be coming anyways.
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Old 16th January 2015, 21:42   #44
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Depends on how they read it in the post-uber era really.

Interesting that you're already thinking of the whip instead of thinking about how technology can make things safer and hence more efficient.

This is technically no different from instantaneous car pooling for a single ride. Did any car pool sites, including those backed / supported by the government get tripped up by such red tape?
Yep !! Whenever there is money transaction, Govt definetly wants a piece of it. When i pay someone, Govt will definetly want income tax from him and also service tax from me.

Car-Pool is technically free, because in car-pool, in round robin method, each user brings in his car (say weekly). I dont think there is any money exchange in car pooling. Cognizant had a car pool site and it was free, even if one person did not have a car, the service was free, meaning no money is exchanged.

Again, coming to safety with or without technology, In India, given the law and order here, it is pretty unsafe to travel with a stranger in a car , however good his rating may be. For the same or a little higher fare, It is better to take the state transport bus or a ticket in an unreserved compartment in train.
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Old 17th January 2015, 19:55   #45
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Default Re: BlaBlaCar, Ride Sharing Service, may come to India

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Again, coming to safety with or without technology, In India, given the law and order here, it is pretty unsafe to travel with a stranger in a car , however good his rating may be. For the same or a little higher fare, It is better to take the state transport bus or a ticket in an unreserved compartment in train.
To each their own. I'm not that pessimistic.

You would possibly be surprised that India has a very lively couchsurfing scene. In comparison this is just a single (few) hour long ride. of course, its another thing that many Indian hosts supposedly prefer foreign visitors far more (as per a couple of very active hosts).

Even here on team-bhp you've had many BHPians taking trips together, simply on the basis of a basic camaraderie and a view on other's posts. If you'd check up on the broader internet you'd probably come across many stories of travelers hitching a ride from others - purely on the basis of their interactions on the forum, including across genders.

This idea has been working for decades in other societies (mitfahrzentrale) - with the right application of technology and processes, I'd say it has more than a fair shot in India!
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