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Old 25th August 2014, 11:38   #16
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Default re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

This should be only be enforced if there is material evidence against the offender, else every traffic cop will see this as a way to increase his bribery amount.
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:02   #17
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Default re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
On the whole, a step in the right direction I feel.
However, the amount of fines will mean we will be putting financially weak people behind bars at a way higher rate than ever before. The deep pockets will just pay the fine and continue on. The social impact of this proposal needs to be studied before implementing it.
Somewhat agree with you, if not entirely. Considering the social level of a person before fining is ok, for a Scandanavian country, where population and their status can be counted on fingertips. In India, where a vehicle is sold over 3-4 times in its lifetime, it is practically impossible to track the social status of the owner.

I think it is time that we should do away with subsidies and benefit of doubt to the financially weaker section of the society, atleast in areas of luxury (owning a 2 or a 4 wheeler is a luxury, not a necessity).
I am fine with supporting the weaker with subsidies in planting crops, buying ration, etc.

Anyways, a person riding a two wheeler without a helmet is an offender, be it on a Bajaj scooter, or a CBR 250 !!
If the fellow can afford a scooter and petrol, can't he afford a helmet ?
And if he can't pay the fine of Rs. 1000, his license should be confiscated, and if he doesn't have that, then his scooter should be confiscated and auctioned away within 3 months, or sent to scrap.

I feel that our motorists (from any level of society) need a bit of Hitler rule to straighten their tails.
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:12   #18
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Default re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

Finally, a move in the right direction and a welcome one at that.

I feel these are draft proposals and the final amount would be much lesser than what is being suggested and much higher than the current ones. The need of the hour is to make people giving bribes think of it as not much of a difference than the actual fine itself. That way, people wold rather pay fine, collect a receipt than to let the police man pocket the money. All the above though, is all wishful thinking.
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:38   #19
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Default re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

2012 statistics: 160 million registered vehicles on the road. 756 million population aged b/w 15 - 64. ie. 21%
But only 3% file income tax - ie salary >2 Lakhs per year.
Thus considering the social level of the traffic offender before fining him is not practical.
Moreover cancelling of a licence based on a points system is not practical. A BMTC bus driver will loose his licence in 1 trip. An auto driver will loose his licence several times over in a day. Their livelihood depends on their licence hence it is cruel to punish them so severely.
I think that only non commercial vehicles driven by their owners who fall under the tax bracket only should be fined and licence suspended.
India is a democracy. All Indians are equal, but only some more equal than others.
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:44   #20
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Default re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

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Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Say, govt takes 2500 and gives the rest to the cop on duty - a whopping 2500.
With such a scheme in place, cops will run around catching people for petty offenses and people will be made to run left, right and center.

I would suggest that this whole method of stopping vehicles should be stopped. With the increased money inflow - they should probably concentrate on buying equipment like street cameras, video recorders etc for the police people. Every offense will need to be recorded and submitted via an official channel and payments made likewise. There is not much scope for corruption if the challan lands at your home, with proof of the crime committed.
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:49   #21
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Default re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
2012 statistics: 160 million registered vehicles on the road. 756 million population aged b/w 15 - 64. ie. 21%
But only 3% file income tax - ie salary >2 Lakhs per year.
Thus considering the social level of the traffic offender before fining him is not practical.
Moreover cancelling of a licence based on a points system is not practical. A BMTC bus driver will loose his licence in 1 trip. An auto driver will loose his licence several times over in a day. Their livelihood depends on their licence hence it is cruel to punish them so severely.
I think that only non commercial vehicles driven by their owners who fall under the tax bracket only should be fined and licence suspended.
India is a democracy. All Indians are equal, but only some more equal than others.
Just because someone does not pay income tax, it does not mean that he is below the taxable limit. so manyfolks simply dont pay tax.

Also - I disagree on the BMTC/Auto license cancellation. An auto or BMTC is expected to follow the same rules, which is applicable for you and me. I dont see why auto / bmtc can flout rules, while I follow them. If thier livelyhood depends on it, they better follow the rules to the letter.

Look at developed countries like UK/USA. 18-wheeler and two-wheeler have the same speed limit and both follow the same. If foreign brands like Starbucks can be embraced in india, why not the foreign traffic rules.

I am sorry to say that corruption is so deep that it is time to pick the stick.
However - I am still waiting and am curious to see how they would be "enforced".
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Old 25th August 2014, 13:22   #22
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Just because someone does not pay income tax, it does not mean that he is below the taxable limit. so manyfolks simply dont pay tax.
My point exactly. Thus social level and actual affordability are 2 different things


Quote:
Also - I disagree on the BMTC/Auto license cancellation. An auto or BMTC is expected to follow the same rules, which is applicable for you and me. I dont see why auto / bmtc can flout rules, while I follow them. If thier livelyhood depends on it, they better follow the rules to the letter.
My Sarcasm :-)

I am waiting eagerly too.

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Last edited by moralfibre : 25th August 2014 at 14:54. Reason: See note in post.
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Old 25th August 2014, 13:53   #23
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

Higher fines are always welcome. But this means more harassment for common people. It gives leverage to traffic cop over commoner. Particularly if you are out of your state.

Also what's the difference between Over speeding and Racing? Who defines a act as over speeding or racing.
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Old 25th August 2014, 14:01   #24
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

I think this is a step in the right direction but at the same time, I'd like to know what will be the basis for decision whether someone has broken the law. It should be the decision of the cop that should decide whether I broke the law or not. The cops have monthly targets and when they need to meet it, they stop random people and ask for fines.

I was stopped once and they could not find the insurance receipt. I said I had just renewed it and it is left at home. They said, nothing doing, I have to pay Rs. 200 on the spot as fine. The actual law says, the cops need to take down the details of me and I am required to produce the receipt within 7 days failing which they can book me.
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Old 25th August 2014, 14:06   #25
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
My replies in Bold. I am waiting eagerly too.
Higher fines are welcome. as unaffordability factor will either discipline the average joe or force him to dump his ride and use public transport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaguHolla View Post
Higher fines are always welcome. But this means more harassment for common people. It gives leverage to traffic cop over commoner. Particularly if you are out of your state.

Also what's the difference between Over speeding and Racing? Who defines a act as over speeding or racing.
Harrasment at one angle but i would say more enforcement from other angle. One gets away by paying Rs 100-200 bribe. when fines are in the tune of 5000/-, expect bribes to be in the tune of 2-3000/- . When one pays the fine or bribes twice, the high amount will definetly make him Re-Think before flouting the rule the next time. the "point" system would also act as a deterrent.

Overspeeding is when one vehicle is being driven above the set speed limit. Racing is when two or more vehicles are competing to overtake each other above the prescribed speed limit.

Last edited by scopriobharath : 25th August 2014 at 14:07.
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Old 25th August 2014, 14:27   #26
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

While the step to make the roads safer is good, I think the cops should be straightened out first before straightening out the common people. These high fines will only make the cops harrass the common people more. First, there should be a way to check corruption and the 'target quota' method set for the cops should be revised. Otherwise, the cops will try to book you for the things you haven't done and most often, it'll be the decent people who follow the rules most of the time will be the ones who are harassed. The govt. should also make the rules/offences clear as our cops combine two or more offences when you're caught for one.
A couple of months back, I was caught for taking a U-turn where it was not supposedly allowed. There was no 'No U-Turn' board anywhere to be seen. The road was completely empty as well. I did not block any one's way either. My father was with me so he did not let me argue. The cop charged me with 'Signal Jumping' and 'Rash Driving'. I was not sure how he could charge me for rash driving. Anyway, I did not argue for the reason mentioned above. But it was pretty clear that he wanted to meet the quota. When I was stopped, I could see many auto drivers and 'heroes' on K&Ned 2 wheelers, beaten up cars etc. running away from the cops, driving rash etc. Those types of usual offenders always get away. It's the people who follow the rules are the ones who are caught most often.

Before implementing these 1st world rules, they should provide us with 1st world infrastructure. At a lot of places, there are no lane markings, no white line markings at traffic signals etc. The cops use these to their advantage.

These are just a few examples.

Also, a lot of our highways pass through towns and cities and the cops in those town limits try to take advantage of it. For e.g, a couple of years back in Mandya, the cops had placed a 20km/h speed limit on the BLR-MYS highway in a way that it could not be seen and used to stop almost every vehicle that used to pass and charge them for overspeeding.

Finally, IMO, it is the things like lane indiscipline, hogging up right lane, high beam usage etc. which should be first priority. More often than not, it is these things which cause accidents even under speed limits than over speeding. (Not saying that over speeding sould be allowed though)

Last edited by theredliner : 25th August 2014 at 14:29.
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Old 25th August 2014, 14:46   #27
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Unless the Govt first gives every traffic policeman the authority to fine on-the-spot & issue a receipt, all these measures are useless.

Plus there need to be squads who check the traffic policemen regularly to see if they are taking bribes.

Else, most people try to avoid having to go to court by bribing the traffic policeman who are only too keen to take it too.

Without basic execution reform, this will only serve to increase the size of the bribe being given/taken.
What are you talking about, who will first check that the receipt given for offence is genuine? barring few cities (Say Delhi etc) where hand held eDevices are give to policemen, in most of the regions and states the receipts are mostly bogus !
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Old 25th August 2014, 15:11   #28
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

In a country where traffic cops blatantly block traffic flow for hours while openly taking bribes from trucks and other heavy vehicles, how do you expect to implement this? And what is stopping from a person from continuing to drive even without a valid DL i.e. once it is cancelled for a year. To me this sounds like another far fetched fairy tale idea which has no relation to the ground realities at present.

The government and cops make so much noise about drunken driving. If they are all so serious then why not deploy a team in front of the exit of a Pub/club. 90% of the people exiting such establishments in there cars will be found with higher than permissible alcohol levels in there blood. Fine them heavily that they remember it for atleast a year. And keep changing the place of such surprise checks.
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Old 25th August 2014, 15:24   #29
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

Should I welcome this rule, Yes ofcourse considering the road saftey measures. Every rule has it own positive and negative sides. As a Driver I will consider these rule at the positive side, But as a citizen / Commoner I am worried about how the cops are going to treat me when I am caught while doing one of these offense. There were times where I stand by the road side with them for no reason(Month end allowances for them) and end up paying 100 bucks just to let me go to and it didnt matter what documents I show him.Wondering how much they are going to ask me now.

Usually we compare how things are here and abroad, why not we discuss how we pay the fine as well. In abroad I have noticed offenders going to town hall (which Muncipal corporation in india) with the fine recipt and pay. Will this be followed here ?

1)If it did, the offender will have no problem tackling the policeman but end paying for the crime anyhow.
2) While paying the fine in the muncipal office it is definetly going to take him atleast few hours. which he will also consider the next time along with the fine amount before doing any of these offenses.

Last edited by lakshman1067 : 25th August 2014 at 15:42.
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Old 25th August 2014, 15:41   #30
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

We must remember that we cannot apply the same penalty for breaking the signal and a burglary or assault when it comes to jail times. You can only look at what is happening in the US about incarcerating non violent offenders for long periods of times.

Also, monetary fine is going to be very relative. I propose penalty of time should be applied: For repeat offence, say one year of of sweeping the roads two hours a day. If you are caught not complying to that, you complete the sentence in the jail.

I don't believe spending time in the Indian prisons with the rapists and drug dealers is gong to reform a repeat offender caught without the PUC certificate. One cannot forget that going to jail can possibly ruin an entire family in a year. I am not saying jail should be off the table, but let the offender have his chance to pay his dept to society in a more productive and rational way first.

Just to explain my position further, I totally support imprisonment of those who, for example, cause loss of life due to drunk driving. I am just stating a requirement of more granularity and fairness in the punishment.
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