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Old 26th August 2014, 08:56   #46
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Stiffer fines, Penalty points... All fine.

But target system is not a new thing. I have heard it is there in place long back. And that is why towards month end or say year end there is wide spread checking and fines imposed. I'm saying this because the cops have showed me their target boards. This is couple of years back. And they have been following it much before that. It's nothing new to be implemented. If it's there in KL and TN for a long time (which I know of), I don't think KA never had this target system in place. It would be there.
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Old 26th August 2014, 09:53   #47
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

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Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
If this were to become reality, our humble traffic cops will start roaming around in snazzy cars like Mercs / BMWs

On a more serious note, negative enforcements like severe penalty alone will not deter the offenders (a la capital punishment for murders). The whole ecosystem (right from driver training, issue of licences, penalties for offences to periodic testing of driving abilities) which conditions drivers to be cavalier about traffic rules will have to change.
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Old 26th August 2014, 10:21   #48
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

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Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
After the propsed increase in speed limit of vehicles (HERE

Quoting a short excerpt:


Attachment 1277969
This will be a good initiative and can save lot of life and money.Though it's already implemented in many foreign countries,I love this to happen in India.

If this gets implemented,this would be a revolutionary movement in Indian Traffic rules
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Old 26th August 2014, 12:22   #49
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

Great suggestions from all.
My suggestion would be: Government can install cameras in all places to capture the offences. Cops duty should be mapping camera record timing and vehicle details and create a offence ticket. Officials can investigate the evidence and accumulate fine on the vehicle/offender. And finally, the fines must be linked to the insurance of the vehicle.
Like in some countries, every year end he should pay the accumulated fine amount.
Additional check: Without paying, the vehicle would not be getting insurance renewed.
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Old 26th August 2014, 12:49   #50
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

In a country where corruption is genetic, this move is in the right direction, but traffic offenders will still get away easy unless these fines and penalty points are strictly implemented.

Add one more "0" at the end of all the numbers of the penalty sheet and impose it with utmost severity. Shouldn't take long to convert an offender into a law-abiding citizen!
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Old 26th August 2014, 14:27   #51
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

I wish they add the fine for driving on the wrong side of the road. This has become a big nightmare in highways now-a-days!
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Old 26th August 2014, 14:52   #52
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

Pained to see the amount of vitriol directed against traffic cops here. Sure, there are corrupt cops (after all they simply mirror the state of the society) BUT
  • Not every cop is corrupt and to broadbrush all of them as corrupt is very unfair
  • There has been a lot of improvement. Most cops in Bangalore have hand held devices and they collect the fine and issue a receipt
  • At least in Bangalore, if you speak to a cop politely and without attitude, you are likely to be treated fairly without the involvement of a bribe.
  • I do not agree that targets for fines are bad - do any of us in the corporate world work without targets, even if it leads to "undesirable" behaviour ?
  • Seriously, does a traffic cop have to resort to frivolous bookings to meet his targets ? Just see the violations all around. He can easily achieve 5X of his target just catching obvious violators
  • Spare a thought for the conditions they work under.
Nothing is perfect and sure there would be cops who may make a killing because of the increased fines. But we drivers deserve a massive kick on the backside too. I would add caning (Singapore style) to the fines.
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Old 26th August 2014, 16:46   #53
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

At the risk of sounding cynical, my 1993-issued driving licence issued from MH 02 (Versova RTO) had a provision for punching points. It must have been a short-lived experiment back then because a lot of cops looked at my DL with wonderment, on one memorable occasion (To Aurangabad I Vent-oh!) even refusing to accept that it was a genuine license. Points system only makes sense when every issued license is in the system and there is a nationwide unified database of licensed drivers. Otherwise it will end up failing.

I also think there needs to be a clear differentiation between serious offences like DUI and relatively mild ones like jumping a signal. A lot of traffic signals in our country are designed in completely unscientific manner and it's quite possible for you to unwittingly break a signal on occasion. In such cases to impose a huge fine and take a chunk of points off my DL sounds really unfair.

PS>> Am not talking about blatant cases of ignoring traffic lights and zipping through a red. Those must be dealt with severely because they are potentially fatal (think Gopinath Munde). But any driver from Mumbai/Pune will testify about these iffy signals where cops hide and catch the first unfortunate driver who misses a light change with an intention to extort.
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Old 26th August 2014, 16:54   #54
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

This is much needed in India. I didn't see an important one which is of great need, lane discipline. Is there a fine for that if someone fails to follow it? 90% of traffic snarls all around the country are not because we don't have the roads but nobody wants to follow something very basic in road manners called lane discipline. And if you made up your mind to follow it, expect loud honking and chaos behind you.
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Old 26th August 2014, 17:02   #55
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post

I also think there needs to be a clear differentiation between serious offences like DUI and relatively mild ones like jumping a signal. A lot of traffic signals in our country are designed in completely unscientific manner and it's quite possible for you to unwittingly break a signal on occasion. In such cases to impose a huge fine and take a chunk of points off my DL sounds really unfair.
Rant Alert:

I agree. While this seems like a noble idea but in practice seems like overreach of law. For example, I am sure there will be a fine for motorcyclists driving on footpaths. It seems pretty reasonable to fine them heavily. But when road looks like minefields and news of deaths due to bad roads becoming pretty frequent what option does a motorcyclist has but to get off the road and onto footpath.

Another case is over speeding challans in bangalore. Traffic cops have taken crackdown as means of generating revenue. You'll always find them hiding behind underpasses on 6 lane roads where driving at 70-80 isn't really unsafe. But I rarely find them checking motorists overspeeding on roads where even 30kmph is downright dangerous.

If law is changed to make it more stringent then there should equal measure put in place to stop and punish it's misuse. Public servants are being given too much power without any chance of retribution and this has started to invade lives of people.

Best of luck when a slightly drunk traffic cop fines you for something arbitrary at 2am.

OT: Bangalore has become nightmare for people with vehicles, specially those from out of state(think IT professionals). Ridiculous RTO rules, highest taxes, increasing fines, expensive public transport, overcharging autowallahs and on top this, bad roads.
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Old 26th August 2014, 19:51   #56
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
But any driver from Mumbai/Pune will testify about these iffy signals where cops hide and catch the first unfortunate driver who misses a light change with an intention to extort.
I 100% agree with this point. On a two lane road, if you are trailing behind a bus (PMT/BST) in slow moving traffic, you are in no position to see the signal because most signals are still not installed high enough and still stand on a 10 feet pole on either the Left or the Right (which again is an ambiguity). Some signals are even hidden behind tree branches, just like the traffic cops.

The best thing one can possibly do in this scenario is follow the bus. But if you are aware of the PMT drivers, you will end up jumping the signal (PMT does too, but they are not caught, only you are). I have experienced both the above (i.e. the signal hidden behind the tree branches and the bus jumping the signal, making it impossible to even know whether the signal was Green or Red when you passed it). I explained the cop that the signal is completely hidden behind the tree branch and not visible at all from the angle where my car came from, especially when it was trailing the bus. But he was in no mood to listen. It was morning and probably I was his first catch.

Hence a little relaxation of the proposed penalties and fines in some way would be good. If not, then only better infra is left as a solution.

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 26th August 2014 at 19:57.
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Old 26th August 2014, 20:32   #57
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
A lot of traffic signals in our country are designed in completely unscientific manner and it's quite possible for you to unwittingly break a signal on occasion. In such cases to impose a huge fine and take a chunk of points off my DL sounds really unfair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charanreddy View Post
Sorry to sound negative, but we live in a country where the common man is only safe as long as he is away from the action. Once something bad happens (Like an accident or a tussle with a representative of the law, the official machinery that is supposed to protect and ensure fair treatment is so screwed and insensitive that your normal life is pretty much over).
Call me paranoid but I am extremely unwilling to trust these people and any decision to increase their powers over us (Steeper fines etc.) should not be taken lightly in the name of greater good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
While the step to make the roads safer is good, I think the cops should be straightened out first before straightening out the common people. These high fines will only make the cops harrass the common people more. First, there should be a way to check corruption and the 'target quota' method set for the cops should be revised. Otherwise, the cops will try to book you for the things you haven't done and most often, it'll be the decent people who follow the rules most of the time will be the ones who are harassed. The govt. should also make the rules/offences clear as our cops combine two or more offences when you're caught for one.
A couple of months back, I was caught for taking a U-turn where it was not supposedly allowed. There was no 'No U-Turn' board anywhere to be seen. The road was completely empty as well. I did not block any one's way either. My father was with me so he did not let me argue. The cop charged me with 'Signal Jumping' and 'Rash Driving'. I was not sure how he could charge me for rash driving. Anyway, I did not argue for the reason mentioned above. But it was pretty clear that he wanted to meet the quota. When I was stopped, I could see many auto drivers and 'heroes' on K&Ned 2 wheelers, beaten up cars etc. running away from the cops, driving rash etc. Those types of usual offenders always get away. It's the people who follow the rules are the ones who are caught most often.

Before implementing these 1st world rules, they should provide us with 1st world infrastructure. At a lot of places, there are no lane markings, no white line markings at traffic signals etc. The cops use these to their advantage.

These are just a few examples.

Also, a lot of our highways pass through towns and cities and the cops in those town limits try to take advantage of it. For e.g, a couple of years back in Mandya, the cops had placed a 20km/h speed limit on the BLR-MYS highway in a way that it could not be seen and used to stop almost every vehicle that used to pass and charge them for overspeeding.

Finally, IMO, it is the things like lane indiscipline, hogging up right lane, high beam usage etc. which should be first priority. More often than not, it is these things which cause accidents even under speed limits than over speeding.
Sorry for the long post with the attached quotes, that's because I totally agree with 'theredliner', 'noopster' & 'charanreddy' with their views expressed above, Infrastructure should be in place so that people focus on driving and driving only.

Today on the roads, I am constantly twitching to read those badly maintained sign boards hidden behind the trees, looking left to right, scanning for jaywalkers, cyclists, bikers, cabbies who may suddenly jump in front of me, so I am better prepared to swerve, same time I need to avoid the potholes & construction material on the road creating bottlenecks and also the oncoming car turning into my space. Our roads are an absolute mess and many times I am pushed to the edge, beyond my normal, comfortable, safe driving.
Fines are sensible but they are just part of the story, however it should not remain the only parameter that is being addressed, while the rest gets a blind eye.

I have been a victim on "no-entry" roads in new towns, where the boards were in blind spots and the authorities who stopped me weren't bothered to acknowledge and fix that issue, it brought in the money for them, at least back then points weren't deducted.

I fear, the new set of rules empowers the cops further without addressing the infrastructure problem.
Get me better designed scientific infrastructure in place please.

Last edited by s_pphilip : 26th August 2014 at 20:40.
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Old 27th August 2014, 02:09   #58
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

The biggest problem in any country is that everything is connected with one another.

Merely imposing these fines without increasing the salary of traffic cops and providing them with better facilities, hand scratching is never going to stop. Not all the traffic cops will randomly catch one person or the other, but the traffic personnel knows where to stand and catch an offender. And especially if these fines are going to have an impact on their appraisal, we are bound to be caught every now and then.

To impose fines more strictly, we need to have a system in place where a vehicle is tagged with the Licence details of the driver on whom the fine is imposed. A driver has 3 tries post which his licence expires (I think this is the current process). When a fine is imposed on the driver, the vehicle number also has to be captured. A max limit of capture has to be set on this vehicle (say 20 times) and once the count exceeds, the vehicle number / RC book has to be seized. Only after a hefty fine is paid, the vehicle is released back.
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Old 27th August 2014, 08:34   #59
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

On second thoughts, wasn't there a proposal of scrapping RTO based systems.

This points to the fact that they're planning on digitized systems for licenses and registration plates.

So, the following things before this new set of rules come in, or maybe a part of the MVRC-

1. Digitizing licence database across the country, linked to Aadhar or passport?

2. Digitizing the complete registration database and introducing high security registration plates in each and every state.

3. Cameras able to read the registration plates at all signals, no entry zones, no parking zones etc. Output of these cameras connected to e-mail / mailing systems which produces tickets and sends it to the respective offender and facility to pay these online.

4. Doing away with RTO's and introducing digitally connected traffic cop stations with control rooms for monitoring traffic in their respective areas.


Of-course this is a huge huge project and will take a while to get implemented. Apart from this, there are training constraints for the existing manpower to enable them use the digitized systems.


I'm not sure what is the plan of action to implement the new set of rules. Harsh penalty to imbibe sense is welcome. But the implementation better be streamlined and well thought upon.

Lets see what is in store.


PS - Before all this gets implemented, they should re-surface all uneven roads and junctions. This will improve the traffic flow by at-least 50%. Smooth traffic flow = less frustration = lesser inclination to bend rules.


Cheers,
Yogesh.

Last edited by yogeshnagpal : 27th August 2014 at 08:37.
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Old 27th August 2014, 10:05   #60
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Arrow Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

Disclaimer - Fully Rant post :-

Why are we not content with the systems we are having right now? Is it so bad?

We build better roads and people buy more cars to fill it. We increase the fine, the transportation companies will increase the freight charge to reduce the risk of paying fines - which increases inflation.

All in all - people should not be controlled with fear(be it money or jailing or killing), but by educating the benefits and being social.

If feel no difference between a terrorist and a government now - Both uses fear to control people! One using fear of death, other using fear of death by starvation for having a car and driving it - paying highest fuel cost, increased toll and now- more fines!
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