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Old 14th September 2014, 12:24   #106
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As a recent victim of police high handedness and going through the process of courts trying to lodge a protest, I have doubts about the implementation and execution.

Better engineering, from roads to traffic cameras, tamperproof evidence of wrongdoing, smooth process for protest petitions etc. are where I would want the government to spend the tax money.

This is a short term way to cure a deep rooted problem which starts with the rubber stamping of driving licences at the beginning of a drivers life.

It's like giving matches to monkeys and then trying to fine them for fires.


The system is one sided. And there is no smooth way to protest if you're wronged. You're better of just paying the fine the way things stand now.

I agree fines need to be higher, but execution is the most important piece of the puzzle. From driving licences, road engineering , better traffic signals, signs and boards, monitoring systems that record proof of wrongdoing. Checks and balances.
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Old 14th September 2014, 13:07   #107
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Post Re: Draft Road Transport bill online for public comments; imposes heavy fines

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
there are signals that turn from green to red in a matter of a couple of seconds or so at junctions where it take more than 10 seconds to cross, which the police use to meet their monthly targets. One such instance used to be there a few months back in Trivandrum. Even if you start crossing the junction while it is green, you would end up completing the crossing after it has turned red. Along with these exorbitant fines, even the civic authorities and the traffic police should be held accountable for any unscientific road construction or signalling to ensure the real culprits are caught.
Isn't there an amber light before the light turns from green to red? If not, thats a faulty/illegal signal. I guess these are the meanings of amber and green signals:
amber: prepare to stop
green: proceed only if it is safe to do so.
So, if you know that it will take 10 seconds to cross the junction and the amber light has been lit, then you will need to pay a fine. Its the same case if the light is green, and you see that the junction is not clear for passing. Sorry for being blunt.

Note: I get nasty stares at both Bangalore and in Kerala if I follow the above rule. I just choose to ignore them. The only exception I make is when there is a traffic cop directing the traffic against the above rule .
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Old 14th September 2014, 13:23   #108
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Default Re: Draft Road Transport bill online for public comments; imposes heavy fines

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Originally Posted by Horizon81 View Post
Isn't there an amber light before the light turns from green to red? If not, thats a faulty/illegal signal. I guess these are the meanings of amber and green signals:
amber: prepare to stop
green: proceed only if it is safe to do so.
So, if you know that it will take 10 seconds to cross the junction and the amber light has been lit, then you will need to pay a fine. Its the same case if the light is green, and you see that the junction is not clear for passing. Sorry for being blunt.

Note: I get nasty stares at both Bangalore and in Kerala if I follow the above rule. I just choose to ignore them. The only exception I make is when there is a traffic cop directing the traffic against the above rule .
The duration for which the amber light was on is the couple of seconds I mentioned, which is much lesser than the time it takes to cross the junction. In any signal, the amber light should be displayed at least as long as it would normally take for the last car that started crossing it on green light to complete the crossing.

Regarding the meaning of amber that you mentioned, it is not fully correct. Amber means stop at the stop line if you haven't already crossed it/ continue crossing the junction if you've already crossed the stop line.
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Old 14th September 2014, 13:35   #109
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Default Re: Draft Road Transport bill online for public comments; imposes heavy fines

What scares me is that these massive fines will give a free hand to the police to accept even larger bribes. Bribes of 100 would increase to 500, 1000 or even more, just so that errant commuters could try and avoid having their names entered into the naughty-book.

Big fines are good, but they need to be enforced properly and exercised with discretion.
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Old 14th September 2014, 13:40   #110
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Default Re: Draft Road Transport bill online for public comments; imposes heavy fines

Traffic police abuse for corruption via bribes for example, as others have said, is just one possible problem that could arise.

Instead of more stringent rules for traffic offenders, how about fining people for not walking on the bloody pavements? Pedestrians need to use the footpaths and not the road all the time.
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Old 14th September 2014, 13:55   #111
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Default Re: Draft Road Transport bill online for public comments; imposes heavy fines

Just thinking aloud here, for how to get this implemented effectively.
1. Remove the human element(the cop) from the equation and make this evidence driven and automated using traffic cameras.
2. Existing video analyzing technologies are more than enough to trap signal jumping, illegal turns, one-way violations, illegal parking, speeding etc. Spotting two wheelers' numbers may be an issue.
3. Start implementation at the cities, where it would be easier to install new cameras / use existing cameras. Number of violations are also higher in the cities.
4. Spare no one from being fined. From autos to luxury cars or white board / yellow board.
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Old 14th September 2014, 13:56   #112
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Default Re: Draft Road Transport bill online for public comments; imposes heavy fines

A call out to the Mods and all members here. We are a large, pretty organised group here at TBHP, and we have folks with lots of experience in Road, Traffic systems both in India and other countries. We also have members well versed with Law.

I think it is high time we become a part of this welcome change, and put forth our suggestions, comments, apprehensions and experiences in a unified form representing all member of our community. This would easily be one of the best contribution from this site to our society. Please do think about this.

Cheers!
sai
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Old 14th September 2014, 15:23   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghammarad View Post
how about fining people for not walking on the bloody pavements? Pedestrians need to use the footpaths and not the road all the time.
I second that. World over, there are laws against jaywalking. This will be a good addition to the bill.
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Old 14th September 2014, 16:15   #114
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Default Re: Draft Road Transport bill online for public comments; imposes heavy fines

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
The duration for which the amber light was on is the couple of seconds I mentioned, which is much lesser than the time it takes to cross the junction. In any signal, the amber light should be displayed at least as long as it would normally take for the last car that started crossing it on green light to complete the crossing.

Regarding the meaning of amber that you mentioned, it is not fully correct. Amber means stop at the stop line if you haven't already crossed it/ continue crossing the junction if you've already crossed the stop line.
Agree

In some of the photos I occasionally post it can be seen that the Stop line is about 20+ metres sometimes nearly 40 metres from the signal. Even at a 'brisk' 35 kmph it would take 3-4 seconds just to reach the signal, and another 1-3 seconds to cross the intersection. In contrast the amber light barely lasts for a second. Ironically this only encourages the unfortunates at the end to drive rashly because once the light turns red nobody wants to be stuck in the middle.
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Old 14th September 2014, 16:46   #115
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Default Re: Draft Road Transport bill online for public comments; imposes heavy fines

There is a flyover with a sharp curve just after my office. The speed limit on that section is marked as 30kmph. There is no sign cancelling the 30 speed zone after that and the next speed limit sign is on the Vashi-Chembur highway which is a good 15-20 minute drive so technically I will be violating the speed limit.

This is the idiocy of our road signs and until such things are not resolved, there is no point having hefty fines. First, the government will have to invest billions in road quality & design in sync with city planning, clear road signs, parking lots, technological upgrades & attitudinal change in cops before coming out with such laws.
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Old 14th September 2014, 17:25   #116
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Default Re: Draft Road Transport bill online for public comments; imposes heavy fines

Is there any mention of higher fines for not sticking to lanes?
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Old 15th September 2014, 10:32   #117
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

All is very fine, but does our average cop know even ABC of the law regarding traffic, and also he may just be keen to meet his daily quota.
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Old 15th September 2014, 11:01   #118
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

In the name of safety , the new law assumes that drivers are solely responsible for all accidents. It conveniently turns a blind eye to poor infrastructure, and puts no responsibility on other road users.

The pedestrian crossing the street using his smartphone poses a risk just as a driver using his mobile , why not a fine for him ? Of course no government would commit hara-kiri by having laws against the "poor common man" , but only the "rich car driver" - reminds me of the bollywood movies in the 70s and 80s.

A 5K fine for jumping a red light , will the government provide a 1 lac compensation when the public thrashes the driver in a road accident ? Will it put behind bars those that thrashed him and took the law in their hands ?

Another useless and junk law that will be added to the thousands that already exist in this country.
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Old 15th September 2014, 11:08   #119
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Red face Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

Just yesterday I risked myself of asking a traffic cop riding a 2 wheeler without helmet about not wearing one and not being stopped by other cops who had frisked a few riders without helmets. The cop just grinned and smiled and moved on. When the law makers themselves give a damn about the law, what effect would these hefty fines have on common man? This will dilute the entire attempt.

75% of the times (or more) the traffic cops at the major signals in my city are least bothered about violators jumping the signal, how would they enforce the fines? Will they risk their lives to try to catch the offenders? I guess not.
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Old 15th September 2014, 11:40   #120
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Default Re: August 2014 Proposal: Stiffer fines, Penalty points for Traffic Offenders

As a few have already commented, we need the infrastructure to be made available and the department cleansed up before enforcing the fine.

Over the weekend, I was trying to cross one of the signal, where the one on the right is switched off, and the one on the left is functional. Since I was on the right extreme, I assumed the signals were switched off, only to stop further up on seeing the red signal, and the stop line was well behind me.

In another instance I have posted on Chennai Traffic page the non-functional/partially functional signal closer home, where the signal unit itself disintegrating with one of them having just 2 lights, one for the red, and one for the green, with the red not functioning, and the whole unit horizontal. All I could see was some new cameras have now been installed.

I would request the union/state minister to have the signals fixed and if possible synchronized. Have the main roads without craters, and get every road user responsible and compliant.
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