Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Street Experiences


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th August 2014, 16:18   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
suresh_gs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: KA-01 / TN-22
Posts: 1,910
Thanked: 1,133 Times
Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Do not overtake at a junction. At all. Never.

Do not overtake on a bend. Do not cut the corner inside a turning vehicle or go around the outside: you have no way of knowing what the other guy will do with the steering wheel.

Do not overtake on left (this should also be ever, but that is too much to hope) without a full lane space to do it in. Never expect that a vehicle will let you through. The driver may not even know you are there.

Never think that your horn clears the way for you. Especially if you don't get around to honking until you are already in the way and the vehicle is already moving to your side to avoid something ahead that you should have seen too. Use your horn, politely, to let people know you are there.

Look ahead. Anticipate but do not assume what other drivers will do. Overtake a vehicle that is about to move to the right to pass another vehicle? You should see that situation and just wait.

Keep a metre or two away from all other vehicles. If you can't, there is not room for you and you should not be there.

Try not to ever forget: you are driving the most dangerous vehicle in the world. Worldwide, even in countries with good laws and good driving tests. Don't risk your life all the time. Don't expect everybody else to keep you alive.

I've often thought that, regardless of wheel number, it is better to be just a little bit afraid of driving. Like this old fisherman's saying...
People should be afraid of the sea.

If they are not afraid of the sea they will go out when they should not, and get drowned.

We are afraid of the sea and we are not drowned very often
Very well said. I have followed such precautions especially while negotiating curved roads. I never overtake if any vehicle is in front of mine.
At the same time, even if no vehicle is in front of mine while negotiating a bend, i reduce my speed and honk just to give an indication to the person coming in the opposite direction that somebody is there.
What if the guy coming in the opposite direction of yours happens to be a moron??

God save you.
suresh_gs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 06:27   #17
BHPian
 
Simple_car's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Dance Bar City!
Posts: 316
Thanked: 553 Times
Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by yo222 View Post
1. Just allow them to pass, by any chance If they end up brushing your 4w, even if it's his fault, chances are that you will be held responsible
----------------------------------SNIP---------------------------------------
These rules also hold true when you are a 2w rider. Avoid driving parallel to any other vehicle whereby some dumb 4w driver may cause harm to you while overtaking the vehicle running parallel to you. Think of what could be your fate as a 2w driver if any 4w driver may nudge even in a slightest way. So keep clear when you are a 2w driver too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Do not overtake at a junction. At all. Never.
------------------------------------------SNIP----------------------------------
I've often thought that, regardless of wheel number, it is better to be just a little bit afraid of driving.
With all due respect to both of the senior members I have quoted here, but the points raised by them are more related to 'Defensive Driving'.

I do however, believe that the evidence based driving which SS-T is talking about is a little different.

I am not against defensive driving per say, but I do believe that here, we need to be a little more pragmatic. I can assure you that I do practice defensive driving most of the time, but not all the time. I can also assure you, that defensive driving can be dangerous in certain scenarios, which are likely to be encountered in India (and which I have definitely encountered).

Quite a lot of points which @Thad has raised are true, and are followed by me 90% of the time. However, I don't really follow them the rest of the time. Fully aware of the consequences (and I have paid handsomely for some of my past mistakes), I have changed my driving style radically about 2 years back, post which 'close encounters' and accidents have reduced to almost nil. The only final hurdle I think, is my failure to understand the 2W drivers. I do a long highway trip twice a year on average (covering ~1000 kms), and I can assure you, I still have one encounter where I have to really step on my brakes and save the other idiot; who invariably always turns out to be a 2W rider. Always

That's what got me thinking of asking SS-T about some insights which he might be able to share with us. I am dead certain that evidence based driving is a lot different from presumptious and defensive driving.

And @thad, I am always afraid of driving here, yet I love driving here Might seem confusing, but it's true in my case

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Hi Simple_car,

Thanks for asking.

It would be better to start a separate thread on safe driving techniques rather than detract from the essence of this thread.
Waiting for your insights sir, and a humble request from me to share them in a new thread.

@mods: Kindly shift the above posts to an appropriate thread. I couldn't decide where to place them. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Simple_car

Last edited by Simple_car : 27th August 2014 at 06:29.
Simple_car is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 10:07   #18
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,564
Thanked: 10,477 Times
Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple_car View Post
Waiting for your insights sir, and a humble request from me to share them in a new thread.
@mods: Kindly shift the above posts to an appropriate thread. I couldn't decide where to place them. Sorry for the inconvenience.
I'll wait for moderators to shift the relevant posts to an appropriate thread if and as they deem fit.

Evidence-based driving does NOT EXCLUDE defensive or presumption-based driving, so Thad and yo222's tips will also remain valid.

As for insights, let me start off the basis of evidence-based driving by putting up a few questions, that you and anyone else are welcome to answer honestly.

1. Do you check whether the brake lamps of the vehicle ahead are working or not, as soon as you are behind him? How?

2. Have you ever tried to look at the position of the rear view mirrors, and through them tried to see the face of the driver / rider of the vehicle ahead of / alongside / in the next lane to you? If yes, what do you infer (apart from the comment that he is a bad driver if his mirrors are folded)?

3. Do you commonly look at the posture of the driver / rider and of his co-passenger / pillion rider? Or do your eyes just focus on the other vehicle as a whole, and you imagine the vehicle itself conveys some kind of 'body language'?

4. Have you ever tried to observe a 2-wheeler rider's right hand & right foot position and movement carefully?

5. Can a vehicle's wheels (both front and rear) convey any message/evidence to you?

EDIT | Disclaimer: I might end up telling someone that their driving technique is bad, while I talk about evidence-based driving - I would hope to be excused and forgiven for such a transgression. There's nothing more criminal than telling a man that he is a bad driver or a bad lover, but in my new job that's an occupational hazard that I would need to tell about the former!

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 27th August 2014 at 10:28.
SS-Traveller is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 10:23   #19
BHPian
 
yo222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 41
Thanked: 10 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple_car View Post
With all due respect to both of the senior members I have quoted here, but the points raised by them are more related to 'Defensive Driving'.

I do however, believe that the evidence based driving which SS-T is talking about is a little different.

I am not against defensive driving per say, but I do believe that here, we need to be a little more pragmatic. I can assure you that I do practice defensive driving most of the time, but not all the time. I can also assure you, that defensive driving can be dangerous in certain scenarios, which are likely to be encountered in India (and which I have definitely encountered).

------- snip --------

I have changed my driving style radically about 2 years back, post which 'close encounters' and accidents have reduced to almost nil.
@Simple_Car I believe you are already on the right track by practising a mix of defensive driving with evidence based driving.

You are also right in bringing out the point that it may not be wise, esp in India, to be out and out defensive or a complete pack of aggression. It has to be a mix of both. One may end up on wrong end if I he is not wise in choosing when he needs to be defensive and when to be aggressive within limits.

Let me clarify, I believe, defensive <-> evidence based driving are two different parameters than defensive <-> aggressive driving. To say it differently, according to me it can be one of the below combinations -

1) evidence based + defensive driving;

2) evidence based + aggressive driving

3) all out defensive

And what I do is to follow a mix of 1 and 2 and use 3 very sparsely.

By either not allowing a scope for the 2w to slide aside me on red lights as far as possible or allowing him a full and very clear space is what I mean is evidence based + aggressive driving wherein we decide when to allow and when not to allow others to mess with us. The same goes with being clear on either the 2w remains ahead or he remains tailing me and thereby avoid parallel riding to the extent possible coz that leaves you very little time to react in case the other parallel rider/driver chooses to change gears/lanes suddenly (this applies to both 2w & 4w drivers).

To conclude there's nothing called a blue/red book of 100% safe riding in any country. And have enough examples of the experienced most drivers misjudging the situation and ending up on the wrong side. Very much in line with what our other driver friend pointed out in his quote on fishermen's theory. (Sorry, am unable to quote his handle coz am typing on my mobile and I may lose my text if I go back to search his handle name)

This has helped me in making a rule for me now onwards "never attempt to understand/estimate how a 2w / 4w drivers and your wife may react to a particular situation".

Sorry if I have confused you further, @simple_car !!!
yo222 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 10:38   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DL9C
Posts: 2,385
Thanked: 1,983 Times
Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
As for insights, let me start off the basis of evidence-based driving by putting up a few questions, that you and anyone else are welcome to answer honestly.

1. Do you check whether the brake lamps of the vehicle ahead are working or not, as soon as you are behind him? How?

2. Have you ever tried to look at the position of the rear view mirrors, and through them tried to see the face of the driver / rider of the vehicle ahead of / alongside / in the next lane to you? If yes, what do you infer (apart from the comment that he is a bad driver if his mirrors are folded)?

3. Do you commonly look at the posture of the driver / rider and of his co-passenger / pillion rider? Or do your eyes just focus on the other vehicle as a whole, and you imagine the vehicle itself conveys some kind of 'body language'?

4. Have you ever tried to observe a 2-wheeler rider's right hand & right foot position and movement carefully?

5. Can a vehicle's wheels (both front and rear) convey any message/evidence to you?

EDIT | Disclaimer: I might end up telling someone that their driving technique is bad - I would hope to be excused and forgiven for such a transgression. There's nothing more criminal than telling a man that he is a bad driver or a bad lover, but in my new job that's an occupational hazard!
Absolutely not sir! Unless we know how bad we are, we can't get better. Offering my answers below for 'evaluation'.

1. I do look out for this, out of experience. Had a close call once due to a non-working taillight. Now, I look out for it specifically when the vehicle ahead is slowing down. As a rule of thumb, I take it for granted that the lights of the bus/truck/commercial vehicle ahead of me doesn't work, unless proven otherwise.

2. Always. My simple thought is if I can't see him, he can't see me either. In such a case, try to make my presence obvious by honks.

3. I observe it as a whole. A private car/SUV belting out black smoke on acceleration is symbolic of an eager driver for me. The kind that will try to race you if you overtake them.

4. Never. I observe it as a whole and try to predict if he will turn either left or right. Mostly try to keep a safe distance from them, if their density increases, I reduce my speeds.

5. Well, wobbling wheels are a sign of danger. Other than that, I don't really observe the tyres.
Dry Ice is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 10:49   #21
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,552
Thanked: 6,310 Times
Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post

1. Do you check whether the brake lamps of the vehicle ahead are working or not, as soon as you are behind him? How?
Yes. If the vehicle in front of me slows down and the lights don't come on, I increase the gap between us.

Quote:

2. Have you ever tried to look at the position of the rear view mirrors, and through them tried to see the face of the driver / rider of the vehicle ahead of / alongside / in the next lane to you? If yes, what do you infer (apart from the comment that he is a bad driver if his mirrors are folded)?
Always.
Short driver struggling to see in front of the vehicle. I don't come in front of that vehicle.
No seatbelts, I keep a slightly bigger gap between us.
Folded mirrors: I avoid overtaking without atleast one small honk.
Driver looks back at me looking at them: Smile.

Quote:

3. Do you commonly look at the posture of the driver / rider and of his co-passenger / pillion rider? Or do your eyes just focus on the other vehicle as a whole, and you imagine the vehicle itself conveys some kind of 'body language'?
Yes. If the person is slouched, I avoid coming to close to that vehicle.
Usually erratic driving and mobile phone in hand go together.
On a undivided highway, I almost always wait for eye contact before overtaking a vehicle.
Quote:

4. Have you ever tried to observe a 2-wheeler rider's right hand & right foot position and movement carefully?
Also the left hand because that is what holds the mobile phone.
If foot is not kept on brake pedal then it means the guy is a bad rider and will crash at some point.
If he is accelerating erratically then new rider. Stay away before he pops a wheelie.

Quote:

5. Can a vehicle's wheels (both front and rear) convey any message/evidence to you?
If they are not in line, especially on buses and trucks. The driver is having a tough time going straight. This is a refurbished piece of junk. Stay AWAY.

Mismatched alloys and steel wheels indicates a recent puncture. I am wary of people who don't fix them right away.

I almost always look at the amount of wear on a tire. Especially at traffic lights. If its raining or there is a little bit of oil then that vehicle will either spin a little or move forward awkwardly.

Quote:
EDIT | Disclaimer: I might end up telling someone that their driving technique is bad, while I talk about evidence-based driving - I would hope to be excused and forgiven for such a transgression. There's nothing more criminal than telling a man that he is a bad driver or a bad lover, but in my new job that's an occupational hazard that I would need to tell about the former!

Last edited by bblost : 27th August 2014 at 10:51.
bblost is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 11:06   #22
BHPian
 
meetbadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 140
Thanked: 66 Times
Default Re: Evidence-Based Driving for Safety: A Primer

Almost a similar kind of experience for me. Almost 5 years back there was a KSRTC bus strike in Karnataka and I happened to take lift on one of the Truck to reach Sirsi from Honnavar. The journey was about 80 Kms and 30 Kms being a Ghat section. The truck driver was holding a big stone which he had kept on the accelerator and was driving without breaking at all. Even in Ghat he did not remove the stone but was driving like that. That day was a nightmare for me. You guys believe it or not he had almost full load on the truck still managed to climb the entire Ghat on 2nd and 3rd Gear and covered the entire distance in 2 hours (including climbing the Ghat).
meetbadri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 11:46   #23
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,660
Thanked: 7,508 Times
Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
....As for insights, let me start off the basis of evidence-based driving by putting up a few questions, that you and anyone else are welcome to answer honestly.
Some very interesting questions there. Let me answer them before reading other's answers and getting biased/primed from them.

Quote:
1. Do you check whether the brake lamps of the vehicle ahead are working or not, as soon as you are behind him? How?
Yes. Not habituated though.
How? Huh? Trick question? When the next car slows down, I see if the brake-lights come on or glow brighter.

Quote:
2. Have you ever tried to look at the position of the rear view mirrors, and through them tried to see the face of the driver / rider of the vehicle ahead of / alongside / in the next lane to you? If yes, what do you infer (apart from the comment that he is a bad driver if his mirrors are folded)?
Yes, always. Gives tremendous insight. Folded mirrors, broken/dangling mirrors, unadjusted mirrors = ignorant fools.
No left-mirror = idiot manifacturer who believes left ORVM is an accessory AND ignorant owner/driver who does not believe in getting one nevertheless

If I can see the eyes of the driver in his mirror, I deduce that he can see me (if he tries to). If I cant see the eyes, I deduce that I am in his/her blind-spot and try to get out of that position asap.

I also note the gender of the driver. Female drivers, I maintain more gap than usual. Ditto with teenagers and racer-boys.

Quote:
3. Do you commonly look at the posture of the driver / rider and of his co-passenger / pillion rider? Or do your eyes just focus on the other vehicle as a whole, and you imagine the vehicle itself conveys some kind of 'body language'?
Yes, to the extent possible. The car's condition, the battle scars, scrapes and dents on the panels tell a story. Condition of the tyres speak volumes.

Driver and passenger in the front seat (if any) also provide a lot of insight. Drivers who turn their face towards the passenger to talk to them ... I stay away.

Female driver and female co-passenger, I invariably assume that they are chatting away to glory and the driver is distracted.

I keep an eye out for doors that can flung open, even at traffic signals and in traffic jams.

Driver sitting too close to the steering, most likely a newbie or a not-confident driver.

Co-passnger not wearing seat-belt = ignorant fool and irresponsible driver

Driver on phone, trying to type a SMS/whatsapp, looking up a contact number etc, I stay away.

Vehicles with political-party flags, you never know to what they would take offense, I stay away.

Racer-boys with modded cars, who would challenge you for a race at a signal, I dont make eye-contact.

Milk-vans, I stay away (As per them, a milk-can with 50 ltrs milk is more valuable than somebody else's life). Large vehicles (bus, truck), I maintain more gap.

Quote:
4. Have you ever tried to observe a 2-wheeler rider's right hand & right foot position and movement carefully?
Nope.

Quote:
5. Can a vehicle's wheels (both front and rear) convey any message/evidence to you?
...
On a lighter note, yes, good alloys convey good taste.

On a more serious note, yes, but I dont recall observing that consistently. A vehicle that has come to a stand-still with front wheels at quite an angle, I stay away. Good possibility that the driver would forget where his wheels are pointed by the time the signal turns green.

I also observe steering movements of vehicles in next lane. It tells me who is trying to sneak in my lane.

Last edited by SDP : 27th August 2014 at 12:05.
SDP is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 12:03   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
arunphilip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,724
Thanked: 4,660 Times
Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
1. Do you check whether the brake lamps of the vehicle ahead are working or not, as soon as you are behind him? How?
I always check this. In dense traffic, I also look through vehicles to see the flare brake lights of multiple cars in front, so I can start preparing to coast to a smooth stop. I've had 1-2 scary experiences years ago when following vehicles without working tail-lamps so I'm very cautious. Conversely, there's an alarmist part of me that still freaks out when suddenly the reverse lamps come on in front of me in traffic, only to realize its an idiot cabbie who's (mis)wired his tail-lamp cluster wrongly. I also reguarly check my mirrors in traffic to see that my brake lights and indicators are working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
2. Have you ever tried to look at the position of the rear view mirrors, and through them tried to see the face of the driver / rider of the vehicle ahead of / alongside / in the next lane to you? If yes, what do you infer (apart from the comment that he is a bad driver if his mirrors are folded)?
I check for this, and see them seeing me in it (and occasionally acknowledging me by straightening up the car or freeing up overtaking room) to get the confidence to pass, where otherwise I'd overtake much more cautiously, with more space and with honking. Naturally, these courtesies of mirror checks occur far more often with private vehicles, and lorries on the highway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
3. Do you commonly look at the posture of the driver / rider and of his co-passenger / pillion rider? Or do your eyes just focus on the other vehicle as a whole, and you imagine the vehicle itself conveys some kind of 'body language'?
I look at the body language to anticipate their next move, for instance, if they're checking to the right and slowing down I assume they're looking for a right/U-turn, and abandon any intention of overtaking. Conversely, if the two people are engrossed in conversation, I'll honk briskly before overtaking to ensure they're aware of me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
4. Have you ever tried to observe a 2-wheeler rider's right hand & right foot position and movement carefully?
I've looked at their overall body language, but not their right hand/foot in particular. Am I missing a trick here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
5. Can a vehicle's wheels (both front and rear) convey any message/evidence to you?
I look for bald tyres, and if I see those, I ensure that I don't end up overtaking just that one vehicle and get stuck in front of them. Apart from that, wobbly wheels just mean an ill-maintained vehicle/no pride of ownership, which means I give them an extra foot of space during an overtake. Anything else I should look for here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Disclaimer: I might end up telling someone that their driving technique is bad, while I talk about evidence-based driving
People (and men in particular) definitely may not like realizing this. But I'd rather have bruised pride than a bruised body. So, go ahead and critique us.
arunphilip is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 12:12   #25
BHPian
 
Simple_car's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Dance Bar City!
Posts: 316
Thanked: 553 Times
Default Re: Evidence-Based Driving for Safety: A Primer

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Evidence-based driving does NOT EXCLUDE defensive or presumption-based driving, so Thad and yo222's tips will also remain valid.
That is understood. I have no doubts on this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
1. Do you check whether the brake lamps of the vehicle ahead are working or not, as soon as you are behind him? How?
I don't specifically look out for this, but it is immediately registered in my mind if the brake lights are not working or working erratically. According to the situation, I then make changes to my driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
2. Have you ever tried to look at the position of the rear view mirrors, and through them tried to see the face of the driver / rider of the vehicle ahead of / alongside / in the next lane to you? If yes, what do you infer (apart from the comment that he is a bad driver if his mirrors are folded)?
For cars, I have followed a simple rule till now. If I can see the driver in ORVM, then he can see me.

For bikes, I am not so sure. Folded mirrors aside, I have tried in vain to observe those who ride commuter bikes. The thing is this: From my 2 month riding experience on motorcycles, I am observing that quite a lot of manufacturers are giving near flat ORVM's, so it becomes very difficult to judge. My own bike, the ORVM's are adjusted for maximum visibility with least possible turn from my head. I am quite sure that my helmet won't be seen in my ORVM if you are viewing me from a car. Still trying to get the perfect adjustment, so, I guess I am not so sure yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
3. Do you commonly look at the posture of the driver / rider and of his co-passenger / pillion rider? Or do your eyes just focus on the other vehicle as a whole, and you imagine the vehicle itself conveys some kind of 'body language'?
Personally, I am looking at the vehicle as a whole. Of course some red flags like a kid riding a yamaha FZ/SZ (??) or those big pulsars are immediately registered.

Otherwise for most bikes sold in India, the riding posture remains more or less the same. The new naked bikes which are now on sale confuse me even more further as far as judging the biker is concerned.

For cars, I look at a driver's posture when driving in city/towns. On the highway, not so much more than a glance, and that too only sometimes. Most of the time, I am looking far ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
4. Have you ever tried to observe a 2-wheeler rider's right hand & right foot position and movement carefully?
Only the right foot. Right hand, never. I don't know what to look out for at the moment. I mean should I be looking how he is braking with the right hand or should I be looking at his acceleration method? I have read about the 2 finger braking on this forum, but that is followed by very few bikers.

Can't you tell from a distance only as to how a biker rides? In the sense that I can make out that a biker is driving sedately/rashly/erratically from a distance, so what additional info should I be actively looking out for?


Quote:
5. Can a vehicle's wheels (both front and rear) convey any message/evidence to you?
Grey area as far as my thoughts go. Let me explain.

1. The very first thing that I actively look out for in any car/bike is the tyre pressure. It's the first thing I notice, and to my belief, the most important one. Under/Over inflation are immediately registered.
2. Unless the tyres are bald / have visible cracks /visible bubbles, it's pretty difficult to judge the real condition of the tyre. I am not going to be actively seeking out the manufacturing date of a particular tyre, since majority of the time it will end up being pretty old
3. Uneven tread wear is also registered in my mind, but this can only be checked when the vehicle is stationary. On a moving vehicle, difficult to tell.
4. Mismatched tyre? It can mean a lot of things. Very difficult to tell. Plus, bikes have mismatched tyres right from factory.
5. Re-treaded tyres, I have seen these only on trucks and poorly maintained taxis. Difficult to guess in a car unless you are specifically looking out for it.

Quote:
Disclaimer: I might end up telling someone that their driving technique is bad,
Always willing to learn and improvise. Can't do that without criticism.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by yo222 View Post
By either not allowing a scope for the 2w to slide aside me on red lights as far as possible or allowing him a full and very clear space is what I mean is evidence based + aggressive driving wherein we decide when to allow and when not to allow others to mess with us. The same goes with being clear on either the 2w remains ahead or he remains tailing me and thereby avoid parallel riding to the extent possible coz that leaves you very little time to react in case the other parallel rider/driver chooses to change gears/lanes suddenly (this applies to both 2w & 4w drivers).
Not at all confused sir, and I am aware that there is no blue book for driving here or for that matter anywhere in the world. I follow most of the things that you mentioned, so chill

Coming to the specific para in the quote; I see that you are from Mumbai, so, I can fully relate. It's pretty easy to do this in Mumbai, but try that in Pune/Ahmedabad. You will not be able to drive peacefully even one single day then. If you try and regulate, you/ your vehicle shall be punished.

Ever tried driving in chennai with the 2 wheelers here? If I attempt to do this, I will be losing my hearing at a very early age.

Thanks,
Simple_cAar
Simple_car is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 12:15   #26
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 284
Thanked: 138 Times
Default

I notice all except 3, 4. But the point is I do not derive much scientific conclusions to aid my drive most of the time.
I had a similar close shave as shown in video and I've been careful after that.

Even if it hurts my pride, I dont mind if it helps me live longer. Though I had my share of accidents, I've been accident free for the past 6 years and would like continue the same further by learning and adapting.

Thanks SS-Travellor for starting this thread.

Last edited by Holyghost : 27th August 2014 at 12:17.
Holyghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 13:19   #27
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,564
Thanked: 10,477 Times
Default Re: Evidence-Based Driving for Safety: A Primer

Thanks for the responses. Keep them pouring in. I'll take one question at a time in the meanwhile, and explain the reason(s) behind the question.

1. Do you check whether the brake lamps of the vehicle ahead are working or not, as soon as you are behind him? How?

It is only in India that it is NOT illegal to have failed running lights, brake lights and headlights - there is no prosecution done by the cops for non-working lights. As a result, some 50% of trucks and 20-25% of cars and bikes happily drive around without working brake lamps - this is based on a few surveys I did over the last few months, counting the total number of these vehicles on the highways, versus those who did not have working brake lights.

As for 2-wheelers, brake lamps are sometimes masked by luggage strung up over the rear light unit, or the pillion-riding lady's saree draped elegantly over it.

It is now a habit for me to check if brake lamps work on the vehicle in front. At a traffic light, in a jam, or at all times when brake lights of adjacent vehicles are lit up and those of the one in front of me do not light up, I assume non-working lights.

Remember that the brake lamps are your primary means of communication with the vehicle behind you when you are travelling in a straight line. Asking a tailgater to slow down, communicating a hazard ahead, or making sure the driver/rider behind understands your intentions well in time - are all communicable through the brake lights. Switching on the brake lamps does not necessarily mean you should also slow down yourself, unless you need to - touching the brake pedal is enough to light up those lamps, without activating the hydraulics.

Keep a lookout for brake lamps of not only the vehicle ahead of you, but of those even 3 cars ahead of you, and cars on either side of you. You can do that through the windscreen of the car in front, past the crowd of 2-wheelers hemming you in, or at night when you can see the reflection of the brake lamp on the road under the truck you are following (and hopefully not tailgating). When someone's brake lights come on 2-3 cars ahead, that is an early warning for you - don't wait for the vehicle immediately ahead to apply his brakes, before you do.

As a precautionary measure, move your foot from A-pedal to B-pedal already - and touch the pedal only enough to light up your own brake lamps, warning the car behind to slow down. Expert drivers can do this with the left foot too, but I wouldn't recommend it here.

When the brake lights of the car slightly ahead of you light up, it would be time to shift your focus to question 5. Let me repeat that question here once again:
5. Can a vehicle's wheels (both front and rear) convey any message/evidence to you?
SS-Traveller is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 14:14   #28
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: India
Posts: 332
Thanked: 289 Times
Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple_car View Post
Hi SS-T,
My query is w.r.t. one who is driving a 4 wheeler., but 2 wheelers just baffle me.
After driving and riding all these years, I just realised something very basic last week:

A biker riding at higher speeds cannot hear ordinary company fitted single horns at safe distances. If it is a windy day, then its even more difficult to hear horns.

Only when the car comes dangerously close and honks , does the biker hear it.

So my 1st suggestion is get a pair of horns which are not very harsh sounding yet do the job of alerting the biker you are overtaking. Ideally get the "skoda" horns ( the local name for trumpet or fanfare horns).


Next , don't honk in regular beeps. It just disappears in urban India's regular racket. Honk in odd sounding tones/intervals. Just sound different from everyone around you. This one may sound weird, but I definitely vouch for it.
john doe is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 21:34   #29
BHPian
 
yo222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 41
Thanked: 10 Times
Default

I mean no offence but then I also see if it's a female driver. Not coz of the popular notion that they are bad drivers but then due to my observation that female drivers normally have kids in front Co-passenger seat or they are chatting with someone next to her which makes her focus on the drive that much lesser and many times more dangerous for the tailing vehicle. Most times she may forget signaling her proposed turns or maybe she will brake suddenly for something that she may have not seen/observed earlier. Not to mention the sudden speed bursts they break into to avoid the glares of other drivers.
yo222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2014, 21:50   #30
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,608
Thanked: 6,692 Times
Default Re: Evidence-Based Driving for Safety: A Primer

There's a lot of food for thought in this thread so far.

I mentioned elsewhere that I had a girlfriend who was a better driver than me. The secret was that she observed more and therefore anticipated more. These are the prerequisites to reacting correctly.

Quote:
I also see if it's a female driver.
So do I. And if she is pretty, my attention may remain there, and that might kill me ---or someone else--- one day.

Actually, my gender stereotyping tends to be the opposite. As a woman on a scooter cut right across me the other day, I said to my wife, "I expect more sense from a woman!" But as to the things women always do... forget it. There is not one thing there that men do not do also, probably in equal measure. I have, in the past, said that one difference is women tend to be less aggressive, but sadly, I'm not sure that that is true.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 27th August 2014 at 21:58.
Thad E Ginathom is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sensor based traffic signals (based on induction-loops) in India? vharihar Street Experiences 8 13th February 2014 21:46
Automobiles with Video Cameras to be used as Evidence/ feedback muni Shifting gears 30 12th March 2013 15:23
A Primer on Dubai nishantgandhi Shifting gears 8 26th May 2008 10:04
A primer on Auto Transmission neverclever Technical Stuff 0 18th June 2004 16:46


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:29.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks