Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Street Experiences


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th September 2014, 12:55   #16
BHPian
 
raghu.t.k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 446
Thanked: 161 Times
Default re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
This is a simply hare brained idea. What India needs is far stricter implementation.

In chennai I have thrice paid 100 rs challans for very minor offences - the strict implementation together with the hassle has made me an ever more careful driver. They over-police the cars and keep them in check. That they don't discipline bikers (most of the time) and MTC buses (never) is a separate sore point. But the overall policing keeps the scene far saner than say a Delhi (which is hopeless).
Perfectly agree, we dont need more rules. Lets enforce what is there impartially, and without fear. Earlier the Chennai Traffic Police was more stringent, respected and "feared" to an extent. But these days its a known fact that any issue could be 'paid out' without any fines, and with that, out goes the respect and fear. In Chennai, the flags, the stickers and the photographs play a major role in the muscle power/clout game as well.

If they dare to rope-in the MTC drivers, it would result in an immediate wild-cat strike, throwing the traffic to disarray(depending on the road) and the public helpless. Even the cars though better, are no saints. With power steering and power brakes, they are driven like bikes. And coming to the bikes, they are checked, but given the rush hour(which is most of the time nowdays), they dont have sufficient staff and willpower to control them. These days we find very few bikes without a sticker saying advocate, press, police, TNEB, SBI, Army, Navy, ... so on. And many a time the rider/driver might not be with the said organisation, but probably his parents, relatives and sometimes even friends!! This muscle/political clout, is also the reason why the auto rickshaws also cannot be fully controlled. Its quite some time that the rule on meter was brought in, but even today we do not have a hassle free service available. It would be a welcome change if someone insists that there should be no flags, stickers or photographs visible outside of the vehicles, and all are equal before the law(for /in whatever context)
raghu.t.k is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2014, 21:34   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
Jignesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Eindhoven, NL
Posts: 1,603
Thanked: 933 Times
Default Re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Hello All,

We all speak of strict implementation of Law, but when the fines itself are less than cost of one snack for two persons at a good restaurant, will it make drivers fear the law?

Authorities will have to store record of offenses that a driver was involved in past. After third or fifth offense he should not be allowed to drive for X number of years /or banned for life. Next logical question will obviously be how to keep a track of such errant drivers when all RTO's are not computerized and digitally linked?

But today, in any city / town of India a average driver will surely have either PAN Card or Aadhar card or Chip enabled Driving license. A mechanism to track the traffic offenses can be initiated using either of these three identification numbers. Every repeat offense should call for higher fines.

Need of the hour is not to establish a perfect system, but atleast start somewhere. We will always some people who will be leading examples to society - somebody like Ajay Devgan. Last year his car was caught with dark sun films. He came out of the car, spoke to police personnel, got the films removed very next day and sent the car for verification. Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/e...w/21976700.cms

Thanks,
Jignesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2014, 22:09   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,918
Thanked: 5,778 Times
Default Re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Just to add a few thoughts into the discussion. As far as I'm aware the Finnish system takes the severity as well as the income into consideration. And it is net income, not gross.

Many western countries have also a "point system". Next to a fine, you also accumulate points. The more severe your offense the more points you get and as soon as you accumulate a certain number of points you loose your driver license automatically.

Also, young drivers are penalize heavier when it comes to these points. So they get more points, or in certain cases will loose their driver license immediately for certain offenses, for instance driving under influence. The thinking behind this system is the fact that in Europe it's a given that young people in the first five years after obtaining their driving license are involved in significantly more (fatal) accidents. So the system tries to "punish" them harder.

The point system can also have an impact on your car insurance premium. When I lived in Kansas City I picked up a few fines (was I speeding officer? Really, so sorry). But a few weeks later I also got a letter from my insurance company informing me that as I had 'penalty points' my premium was raised.

The point system as well as the Finnish system requires a very well organized administrative system that allows to really enforces the fines and or the points.

In the Netherlands, and some other countries as well, when you leave the country via Amsterdam Airport, immigration officers will scan your passport. Outstanding fines (but also for instance alimony not paid) will show up and they won't let you depart until you pay!

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 11th September 2014 at 22:11.
Jeroen is online now   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2014, 10:49   #19
BHPian
 
braindead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pune
Posts: 72
Thanked: 190 Times
Default Re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Fining an amount based on the tax bracket is the fairest and the best system in principle. The idea is to keep the deterrent value the same in spite of the difference in the bank balance. A thousand Rupee fine is relatively easy to pay for most of us but the same might put a major dent in the pocket of a night watchman for instance.

I agree it will be difficult to implement and some people will always find some loopholes but it is the only way to have high value fines. And high value fines are the only way to have some semblance of discipline on the roads.
braindead is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2015, 14:12   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
14000rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rochester, MI
Posts: 1,844
Thanked: 541 Times
Default Re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Earlier this year, a Businessman from a neighbouring city (Seinajoki) was fined 54000 EUR for driving at 103 in a 80 kph zone. phew. thats scary. I do the same most of the time ever so watchful of the dreaded speed cameras. I got lucky a few times.

digging further, I noticed that his previous yrs Financial Declaration was 7 Mn EUR. back calculating to my salary, I may get away for cheap. heck, if they know the company I work for, I could get some sympathy and waive off as well.

jokes aside, the fine I would attract would be around 800 EUR. not worth it. better to put that money and go and drive in German Autobahn.
14000rpm is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2015, 21:12   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
khoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dilli
Posts: 2,722
Thanked: 1,250 Times
Default Re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Rate of income tax for income of 10L is 30% car may be i20

Rate of income for income tax of 50L is 30% car may be Corolla, Jetta or similar

Rate of income tax for income of 1 Crore is 30% car may be Mercedes C or E or similar

So on and so forth.....

Fine for jumping red light for the above tax bracket i.e. 30% is uniform say @ Rs 100,000/- (we are being strict here, right)

Still think a tax slab based system will be fair ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Fining an amount based on the tax bracket is the fairest and the best system in principle.

The one way that this may work out could be if fines are based on the actual tax paid and not on the slab per se.

Guy no.1 paid income tax of 3L so fine is say 25,000/-

Guy no. 2 paid tax amounting to 15L here fine may be 1,25,000/-

Guy no 3 paid income tax of 30L and the fine here might be 2,50,000/-

Fair as well as hard hitting for all. What say?
khoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2015, 07:40   #22
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: London
Posts: 411
Thanked: 477 Times
Default Re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14000rpm View Post
back calculating to my salary, I may get away for cheap. heck, if they know the company I work for, I could get some sympathy and waive off as well.
This is what I keeping telling everyone, that if the Govt/police came to know the company for which I work then they might take pity on me and put me on social benefits...

May be we work for the same company as the feeling is mutual

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Fair as well as hard hitting for all. What say?

On the lighter side was just thinking what will happen to say -

Below Poverty Line - No income so they should be paid back for traffic violation. So they will earn by violation

Cabbies - Government will waive off the fines once a year in a grand function like agriculture loan waiver.

Politicians - Subsidized fine like 8 Rs, 10 Rs matching the food price in parliament canteen

Auto Rickshaw - Rights to Refuse to pay fine...

Businessman - Poor businessman in BMW has paid only 3 lakhs tax, which is less then a IT guy so less fine.

Reservation - These people will have a certain number of quote of violation which they are allowed to commit

Common Man - how dare you commit traffic violation

Regards
chandrda is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2015, 08:26   #23
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sudev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 3,435
Thanked: 1,914 Times
Default

So get a poor driver to be the fall guy and escape paying high fines. After all it is reported that supari is cheap here.....
sudev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2015, 12:17   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,613
Thanked: 949 Times
Default Re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Everyone believes his income should be classified as poor, and anyone earning more than double his income as super rich.

So traffic fines based on income will be ultimately opposed by everyone! (Because everyone thinks he is poor)
alpha1 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2015, 15:13   #25
BHPian
 
Dieseltuned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bombay
Posts: 361
Thanked: 274 Times
Default Re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Well we are talking about a country that has people who have Below poverty line cards and are employed at senior level in major IT companies. They earn in lakhs per month but go begging to the government that I am a BPL candidate please waive off my medical expenses.

Regards
Dieseltuned
Dieseltuned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2015, 18:40   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
14000rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rochester, MI
Posts: 1,844
Thanked: 541 Times
Default Re: Finland: Traffic Fines based on Income

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14000rpm View Post
Earlier this year, a Businessman from a neighbouring city (Seinajoki) was fined 54000 EUR for driving at 103 in a 80 kph zone. phew. thats scary. I do the same most of the time ever so watchful of the dreaded speed cameras. I got lucky a few times.

digging further, I noticed that his previous yrs Financial Declaration was 7 Mn EUR. back calculating to my salary, I may get away for cheap. heck, if they know the company I work for, I could get some sympathy and waive off as well.

jokes aside, the fine I would attract would be around 800 EUR. not worth it. better to put that money and go and drive in German Autobahn.
and it happened. I got fined for driving at 104 in 80kph zone. Fine amount - 568 EUR with discount. yupp. I am poorer by that much now and the wife still doesn't know..intend to keep it that way. Finnish Cops understand it too.. they have allowed me to pay it in 6 instalments.

at the risk of sounding overconfident, I can say that I'm good at spotting the one-legged speed cops - Speed Cameras. this time it was a patrol van at 4.30 am in a desolate stretch of road.

I have always known that I had to reduce my weight, I now know that my right foot needs the weight loss first. but of course, the wallet went on a crash diet already.
14000rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
List of Traffic offences and applicable fine. Fines set to increase 10-fold moralfibre Street Experiences 78 15th September 2014 17:10
Sensor based traffic signals (based on induction-loops) in India? vharihar Street Experiences 8 13th February 2014 21:46
How to avoid Traffic Fines / violations? Anandg Street Experiences 27 13th March 2012 22:28
Traffic Cops fines BMTC Hurrycane12 Commercial Vehicles 33 23rd July 2008 15:18
Traffic Fines naveendhyani Shifting gears 9 7th May 2006 14:52


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:47.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks