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Old 25th September 2014, 17:38   #16
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Default re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

It's the "greater good" theory at play: catching terrorists is more important than putting safety-conscious riders at risk.

You did absolutely the right thing. Wear that helmet proud! It's your own head your saving in case of an accident. A little inconvenience is acceptable.

Oh and by the way, there is no concept of civil liberties in this country and bikers are at the absolute bottom of the food chain. I see them being stopped every day at a busy intersection near my office for no obvious violation. My biker friends are so used to it that they don't even think to question it now, even to themselves.
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Old 25th September 2014, 17:46   #17
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Default re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

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Originally Posted by tharian View Post
Absolute nonsense.

In the first scenario, the cop can stop you and check if there are pending cases against the vehicle registration number. He cannot stop you randomly to check papers.
If the pillion was wearing a helmet which made the cop suspicious, why on earth did he ask him to not wear it after clearing his doubts?

This is nothing but screwing around in my books and I would do what Samurai suggested.
Come on! The cop is just doing his job! This is how bike borne chain snatchers operate. If both riders wearing helmets raised the cop's suspicions, he has every right to stop and make enquiries. It is after all not a common sight on our roads.

In all fairness to the cop, he would have suggested to the OP not to wear the helmet to avoid looking like chain snatchers and getting pulled over again by the cop at the next patrol point.

I feel the threat title is misleading. The question mark should come at the end i.e after criminals.
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Old 25th September 2014, 18:16   #18
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Default re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

Fair enough for the cop to check if suspicious, but his duty stops there. He has no right to advise the pillion rider to not wear a helmet to avoid suspicion/inconvenience. It's the police's job to separate the criminals from the general population, not the other way around. Just goes to show how safety is last or not even on most common folks' priority list, including cops who are supposed to enforce said safety regulations.
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Old 25th September 2014, 18:46   #19
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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
But the "middle part" is not exactly the best path here. In case of a fall, injuries are maximum in the facial region.
Please check the third image in this: http://www.team-bhp.com/safety/open-...l-face-helmets)
We aren't talking about an ideal scenario here. The cops aren't entirely to blame since they want to spot known miscreants easily and quickly. What in your opinion, would be a more palatable compromise?
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Old 25th September 2014, 19:01   #20
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Default re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
However, the bottom line remains that if you are not breaking the law and have all papers of your vehicle in order, then you should not feel scared. Always put on the protective gear. All you may have is some hassle of showing all your documents. Much better than sustaining injuries when the gear was lying packed at home.
Completely agrre with you! I couldn't have said it better!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Fair enough for the cop to check if suspicious, but his duty stops there. He has no right to advise the pillion rider to not wear a helmet to avoid suspicion/inconvenience. It's the police's job to separate the criminals from the general population, not the other way around. Just goes to show how safety is last or not even on most common folks' priority list, including cops who are supposed to enforce said safety regulations.
Completely agree with you sir! I'm okay with checking everything, but it hurts to see the cop tell me not to wear a helmet as a pillion! With road sense getting worse in India, it makes sense to be safe than sorry.

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Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
We aren't talking about an ideal scenario here. The cops aren't entirely to blame since they want to spot known miscreants easily and quickly. What in your opinion, would be a more palatable compromise?
That's the purpose of this thread sir. I want to know how others dealt with this issue. I think it's a serious enough issue where criminals have to be distinguished from responsible pillions.
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Old 25th September 2014, 19:40   #21
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Default re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
.....it hurts to see the cop tell me not to wear a helmet as a pillion! With road sense getting worse in India, it makes sense to be safe than sorry.......
My wife & I are constantly sniggered at by people on road because they find it funny we're both wearing helmets while on our bike. I can't help but smile back sarcastically.

Follow the law and cooperate with cops, but keep in mind you have a right and duty to protect yourself with appropriate gear while riding. Any minor inconvenience with ignorant cops is not worth risking your safety.

Darwin is a smart fellow, so wear your gear and let him sort out the champs from the chumps

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 25th September 2014 at 19:42.
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Old 25th September 2014, 20:21   #22
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Default re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

Well its not acceptable at all. First cops were suspecting car owners as terrorists for having sun film and they banned it and now pillion riders for having helmets! At Kolkata its mandatory for both the riders and the pillion to wear helmets. Hope it should be the same all over India.

But as this is happening at Bangalore or few other places we have to find out a 'middle path' which can keep us safe from the police + accidents both.

1)If you are having a black/tinted visor keep it open or put a white visible visor through which the face can be visible.

2) Though a bit unsafe and i should not suggest but still to get rid of harassment and better than not using a helmet am saying this. Use a open face helmet so the face is clearly visible. But in case of an accident it can injure the jaws badly.

3) Lastly these helmets are good options. Even i use one from Studds. The frontal portion can be opened and closed both. When cops are there open it and once gone for your safety close it.

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Last edited by Samba : 25th September 2014 at 20:28.
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Old 25th September 2014, 20:26   #23
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Default re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
The way they stare is like you are inviting some trouble instead of taking precautions and being safe. Probably donning the safety gear also gives the policemen a feeling that you are racer or a fast rider who is all set to pull some stunts on roads.

However, the bottom line remains that if you are not breaking the law and have all papers of your vehicle in order, then you should not feel scared.
+1

There's a lot of PUC checking going on these days on Kolkata roads and of the two-wheelers flagged down, the bulk of them seem to be safety-conscious riders with jackers, helmets, handkerchiefs (to cover the nose), etc. The cops tend to ignore the families, women, and 'ordinary' riders when it comes to deciding whom to check. Some profiling!

The "advise" the cop gave the OP is highly dangerous. Will he be liable if the OP has to undergo facial reconstruction surgery due to an accident? Such an instruction borders on criminal and whatever the intention I have no sympathy for the cop.
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Old 26th September 2014, 10:21   #24
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Default re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

I used to pass through 3 checkposts daily on my way to college (twice at Mulund toll on either sides, one at Wadala). The police used to be quite surprised at 2 college going students gearing up (helmet + gloves + jacket), and since curiosity got the better of them, we were stopped at least once every 2-3 days (and maybe a 100 or more times during my 3 year grad period). When we used to ask for a reason, they told us that chain snatchers used to use helmets even for the pillion riders so as to hide their faces or sometimes call us stunt riders. But they used to agree to the reason we gave (safety), and a college ID proof would suffice. We were never fined, not asked to stop wearing a helmet or never been asked for a bribe.
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Old 26th September 2014, 12:38   #25
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Default Re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

D4D
You did the right thing in putting the helmet back on. Nothing's more precious than one's life. And here in Delhi , I have seen umpteen instances of bikers dying because they did not bother putting a helmet on.
In fact in Delhi, there's been a recent law which mandates that rider and pillion both have to mandatory wear helmets.
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Old 26th September 2014, 13:33   #26
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Default Re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

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Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
In fact in Delhi, there's been a recent law which mandates that rider and pillion both have to mandatory wear helmets.
Someone on the thread mentioned that it's a law in Kolkata too. Hope they make it a law around India too.

I don't get the logic of only the rider wearing the helmet.

Is there some statistical data that shows the pillions don't get injured as often when they fall from a motorcycle?

Last edited by D4D : 26th September 2014 at 13:35. Reason: Spelling error!
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Old 26th September 2014, 13:53   #27
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Default Re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
Someone on the thread mentioned that it's a law in Kolkata too. Hope they make it a law around India too.

I don't get the logic of only the rider wearing the helmet.

Is there some statistical data that shows the pillions don't get injured as often when they fall from a motorcycle?
Its there in the Central Motor Vehicles Act. States have not implemented this yet. It was implemented in Delhi this September (2014).

From a News Article in TOI dated November 16, 2012

Quote:
A family in Nathpura lost two young members in a motorcycle accident in the run-up to Diwali. A 35-year-old woman and her 24-year-old sister died on Saturday afternoon when the motorbike they were riding pillion on got disbalanced and the duo were crushed under the tyres of a truck around 4pm in Ashok Vihar. None of them was wearing a helmet.


"All three were on one motorcycle and the women were not wearing helmet as it is not compulsory for them. We are yet to determine the cause of the accident and whose was at fault but the fact remains that the motorcycle had more people than allowed and women were not wearing the protective gear," said joint commissioner of police (traffic) Satyendra Garg.


Traffic police records show that cases of triple-riding are on the rise. Also, women not wearing helmets are constantly exposing themselves to danger. Till October 31 this year, cops have recorded 45,326 cases of triple-riding — a significant jump from 33,281 cases recorded in the same time period last year. During the same period, 35 women have died while travelling on two-wheelers. Hospital officials also claim that the extent of head injury is more in women riding pillion than men riding a two-wheeler.

Two-wheeler riders are also the most vulnerable road accident victims after pedestrians. Last year, 705 two-wheeler riders died in road accidents, accounting for over 35% of the total road accident victims in Delhi. This is a jump from 2010, when about 32% victims were two-wheeler riders.
Source
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Old 26th September 2014, 15:14   #28
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Default Re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

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Originally Posted by Samba View Post
2) Though a bit unsafe and i should not suggest but still to get rid of harassment and better than not using a helmet am saying this. Use a open face helmet so the face is clearly visible. But in case of an accident it can injure the jaws badly.

3) Lastly these helmets are good options. Even i use one from Studds. The frontal portion can be opened and closed both. When cops are there open it and once gone for your safety close it.
Please avoid open face helmets and flip-type helmets. Studies have shown that 35% of all crashes are on the chin area - which is unprotected in open face helmets. Flip helmets are also not as rigid as normal helmets - and either they may not offer enough security for the chin zone; or may jam/collapse on impact.

This is a 'people' problem not a helmet problem. We might want to write to the police or raise this via Facebook that they are being discriminated against and harassed for wearing helmets, and with no other evidence.

Remember how there were complaints about the police pulling over vehicles for paper checks, and a ruling was made that the police cannot demand papers in the absence of a traffic violation?

Likewise, in the absence of any notification from the PCR of a theft/chain snatching (or in the absence of reasonable and compelling suspicion), the police should not be performing such checks.
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Old 26th September 2014, 16:22   #29
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Default Re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

I think we should ignore this as one of the idiosyncrasies of the average Indian people. For example, I see lots of people waving and gesturing vehemently to tell the drives of cars/bikes that their light are on during the daytime, but have never seen anyone do that to the dudes who have their head lights off during the night.

I am sure this is a one-off incident of a not-so-smart policeman. To counter your experience, the other day I saw a traffic policeman in Hyderabad asking someone to put his helmet straps on and explaining that helmets are of hardly any use without the straps. Am pretty sure that what I saw is again a one-off incident; albeit a positive one.
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Old 26th September 2014, 16:47   #30
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Default Re: Pillion wearing helmet = Criminals on bike, say Cops

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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
..........

P: You know why we stopped you? We always (read as=make it a point) stop a two-wheeler in which both rider and pillion wear helmets (I was like- ) as we assume something fishy like chain snatching is going on.
...........
Going by his logic, wat is their plan of action if the helmet wearing, chain snatching, bomb making thief/terrorist is a lone rider? How are they going to stop such crimes then.
And to think the nation's security is their hands. The antics of Inspector Clouseau pales in comparison. On a saner note, it is your head, hence your right to protect your head.Period.
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