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Old 7th October 2014, 20:39   #16
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

In my opinion, what we need is elevated roads with exits, and not the "usual fly overs" which start and then end few hundred meters or few KMs away. It is the result of a very myopic view of the authorities.

These fly overs take hell lot of time (read years) to complete, and by that time the solution that the "fly over" was supposed to provide is already obsolete, or the city growth outgrew the fly over's solution intent.
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Old 7th October 2014, 21:14   #17
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

Yes; but only a temporary one just as a stop gap arrangement.
Because flyovers will bring in more driving space meaning demand for automobiles increases and so will sales. It will boost confidence in people to buy cars. those who avoided driving due to traffic could probably shift to self commute given the increase in roads.

The most important solution that I can think of is the paradigm shift in all of us to leave self commute and start using public transports. now counter question can be - are our public transport efficient enough? do we have anything that can come anywhere near the awesomely designed tube system of London? Answers to these at the moment will be no; but preparing ourselves to let go of self commute and adopt to car pooling / public transport would be the apt solution.

But hey, we are BHPians . don't we love to drive? don't we love to date our beauties every single day? of course we do.

That's why I said - a paradigm shift is required. we should be ready to let go.
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Old 7th October 2014, 22:10   #18
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Both yes and no in my opinion. There are a few instances in Bangalore where it has helped traffic a lot and some places where it has just moved the traffic to the next intersection. I can't even imagine what the situation would now be without all those flyovers to the airport here. I had gone to the airport when it was newly opened - 6 years ago now - and it had taken more than 1.5 hrs. With the current increase in traffic during the last 6 years, it would have taken at least 2.5 hours to reach the airport. But now it takes about an 75 minutes to reach.

Another example is the ORR from Mysore road to Tumkur Road. It still takes about 1.5 hours to reach the same point through the city and about 25-30 minutes using the ORR with all the flyovers.

Some badly designed flyovers include the Richmond circle flyover which indeed had a signal on top of it earlier as @dass mentioned. Also the Kadirenahalli underpass which moved the signal immediately to the next junction and Kanakpura road signal with 100 feet road.

Also, I can already see that the upcoming flyover at D.G Petrol bunk on ORR which will take a few years to complete will only add to chaos down the ORR.

The idea should be create flyovers that solve potential bottlenecks before they become absolute snarls and creating further messes when constructing flyovers at these places.
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Old 8th October 2014, 00:55   #19
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

Not building flyovers because " People will buy more cars" is the most senseless argument that I have come across. In this age not every one has a 9 to 6 job. For example I leave office at almost 2:00 in the night for atleast two days of the week. Which public transport system runs all night ? And if the public transport is about a KM away from my work / residence who will provide protection. What about ladies who need to work.

I have personally benefited from the ORR flyover in Bangalore. It is an almost signal free flyover (Except at Sarjapur Junction / HSR Layout). The only bottle neck is the silk board flyover where an underpass from BTM to HSR would have been ideal.

If you can use the space designated for roads by building one on top of another (Fly-'over') then you are essentially making effective usage of the space designated for roads. In our country it is all the more important as we have a large density of population living in Metros / Cities where the employment opportunities exist.

I am all in for flyovers. This makes infrastructure better and helps City develop.
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Old 8th October 2014, 01:53   #20
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

If you want an answer to the OP question, close down all the flyovers across the country for one full day. This might look like a joke, but I am serious. I have personally experienced jams in Hyderabad due to closure of flyovers for VIP movement. How many times many of us wished to have a flyover built across the most busiest junction we cross on our way to work? In my opinion, flyovers do reduce traffic congestion and enable free flow of traffic. The longest flyover in the state (11 kms,P.V.N.R Expressway) on way to the airport is an example of how you can reach the outskirts of the city in no time. Just imagine if it wasn't there! It would take any person between 1 to 2 hours to cross (from the starting point of the present flyover) the busiest roads enroute airport, whereas using the flyover takes only 20 to 30 mins.
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Old 8th October 2014, 02:41   #21
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

Adding flyovers to a city is not an effective solution to reduce traffic congestion. This model has been ineffective in Bangalore at least, owing to new cars and bikes pouring everyday to already dense traffic conditions. The solution may lie in better management as in
1) Encouraging public transport and carpooling which not only saves fuel and money, but also reduces pollution levels.
2) Offices should be spread across multiple locations in city rather than having all clustered up in a common business park. Like this, the traffic would be equally distributed throughout the city rather than congesting common roads at peak hours. It also encourages people to take up homes near offices thus further reducing vehicles on roads.
3) Good maintenance of already existing roads keeps the traffic smooth where people won’t brake repeatedly due to potholes and humps.
4) Setting up software and core industries in multiple cities which would reduce the heavy influx of employable people to metros every year. Lesser the people influx lesser would be the need to buy vehicles.
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Old 8th October 2014, 05:12   #22
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pratika View Post
I think this is a classic supply chain problem. If you can keep all items on a conveyor moving fast enough and at a uniform pace, you'd get the best throughput. But if there is a bottleneck at some point in the conveyor then no amount of widening before/after the bottleneck point will help improve throughput.
Bang on! The basic purpose of constructing flyovers has been to remove a constraint. But yes, no proper lane markings, no proper signboards corresponding to right lanes, not enough space for vehicles trying to exit flyovers, etc. are other problems that create another constraint of lowering speed for everyone, lane criss-crossing, etc.
In my view, a few signal free roads with wide roads and clover-lead intersections/loops, etc. are required in every city, much like a properly maintained ring road.

In the US, where mass transport has taken up big way, how are they addressing it?

The focus is to remove constraints reducing speed of traffic.

I guess Noida - Greater Noida Expressway stands a very good example for this. You travel anywhere in India along busy roads at peak times, you can't cover that long a distance in so less time.

Delhi's ring roads, Mumbai's WEH/EEH face same problems of a constraint being present on a conveyor belt.

And I don't think mass transport is any solution in India at all for most common people.
One, they don't operate in the night. So, if I work in the UK timings, mass transport is not for me. Saturday night visit to a restaurant for dinner, mass transport is not an option!
Two, there is threat of your wallet getting stolen, crimes during day-time as well as night-time, etc.
Three, people of all standards of hygiene come together, stink, dirty stations. Four, inconvenient timings, too many interchanges, etc. causing trouble for an ordinary person.
Five, Waste of time, it is not taking from precise point A to point B, ancillary or feeder services like auto or bus are non-existent.
Six, mass transport projects cause a dent to government as most are loss making.
Seven, You don't even get a place to sit! I can't imagine standing in a crumpled position for an hour plus interchanges plus negotiating with autos/waiting for buses.
Eight, for all practical reasons, pedestrians are not safe on city roads, especially at crowded intersections. Only Chandigarh is the city I've seen with zebra crossings and rules being followed everywhere. So, you get down from metro/local/etc. and there are these issues.
From safety, security and health point of view, mass transport is a definite big no-no.
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Old 8th October 2014, 07:56   #23
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

It depends on the current state of infrastructure of the place. If the place has many choked junctions and many uturns flyovers will definitely help the people who are headed to a destination farther than these junctions.

Govt is not ready to invest in public transport, but it is interested in poorly designed flyovers so that they can fix it with one more flyover,which inturn benefits the contractors who happens to the kin of the road/transport minister.

Case at hand - our transport minister Mr Gadkari, how can he be the transport minister when there is a conflict of interest ?

Flyovers definitely help but their effectiveness is reduced due to poor design and corruption.

That said, no single measure will solve traffic congestion. A multi-pronged approach is required to improve the infrastructure, public transport and people awareness.
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Old 8th October 2014, 08:15   #24
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by charanreddy View Post
Not building flyovers because " People will buy more cars" is the most senseless argument that I have come across.
I think you referring to my statement. that prompted me to check on internet for any related articles and here is what I found

http://www.fastcompany.com/1756746/b...s-more-traffic

Please read this .

Are you by any chance thinking cars rolled out are limited and no more cars will be sold?
Flyovers are indeed good and beneficial but there will be a time when that too will be congested. what next? will you propose for flyovers on top of flyovers?
There will be a time when public transport be super efficient and people to use the same.

@charanreddy: please learn to respect people's opinions and do not add negative adjectives to describe anybody's views. You can counter argue with facts!

Moderators: I had to address this specifically. However, If you find this inappropriate, I am sorry and you can remove this.
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Old 8th October 2014, 08:33   #25
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

While well planned flyovers, which take into account traffic flow along an entire route (rather than only a single intersection) definitely ease traffic flow and increase the carrying capacity of the roads (vs a regular signalized junction). I feel the question should be posed slightly differently:
  • Are flyovers the most suitable/best solution to traffic congestion? (consider effectiveness in reducing congestion vs investment made. Also consider if they effectively solve the problem or simply shift it to the next intersection)
  • Is enhancing traffic flow really a viable long term end goal, shouldn't the emphasis be on moving people rather than cars? (I know I'm throwing open a can of worms, but consider this from a 20-25 year perspective)

Related question:
Are there ways of reducing congestion that offer more "bang for the buck" (think of this in terms of money spent as well as cost of real estate space) eg: Metro Corridors, B.R.T systems (including new, well maintained and comfortable buses at a regular schedule), cycle lanes, better footpaths for good last mile connectivity from the transport hubs. etc.

Just some food for thought .

Last edited by adisag : 8th October 2014 at 08:38.
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Old 8th October 2014, 09:00   #26
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

I found this interesting. its about Induced demand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

with relevance to this captioned topic, what I infer is that as the supply of roads increases, the demand of cars / automobiles will increase.
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Old 8th October 2014, 09:07   #27
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

By themselves, flyovers only postpone the problem.

What is required is a holistic approach with proper long term forecasting and city planning.

High quality, clean, safe, predictable Mass Rapid Transit systems with easy "Park and Ride" facilities is one way of moving squillions of humans around in an efficient manner.

Delhi Metro has shown us the way - it would be great if all the State Capitals could replicate the same and quickly.

We seem to be running but ending up staying in the same place!

Last edited by shankar.balan : 8th October 2014 at 09:10.
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Old 8th October 2014, 09:50   #28
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

Considering current scenario in Pune, I feel flyovers are a good source of income these days for our (beloved) politicians . Take an example of the flyover near Noble hospital in Hadapsar. Firstly, this flyover has an intersection, secondly it has completely failed to live to its purpose i.e. to avoid or reduce traffic jams! I think they are planning to install a signal on the flyover! I guess there is another such example in Banglore (don't know the area but I'm sure have seen it). There's even another stupid example of a flyover at Hinjewadi which crosses the NH4. After it was built, the traffic pace at Hinjewadi during peak hours would even be slower than snails! When our politicians were questioned about the decision to build this non-sense, their reply was: "I think we have made a mistake in building this fly-over"!!! Add to it the sheer "brilliance" of deploying a BRT on Nagar road and Solapur road with utter pathetic bus services (Phaltu Municipal Transport aka. PMT); their intentions are dead clear! BTW, the deployment of buiding a Metro is pending since 5 years!! God save us!!

Regards,
Sanket

Last edited by benbsb29 : 8th October 2014 at 12:28. Reason: Extra smiley removed. Please limit to maximum of 2 smileys per post.
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Old 8th October 2014, 09:53   #29
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by napster1311 View Post
Things that can be done to come out of this mess:
1. Control population.
2. Decongest the Metros by shifting industries and work opportunities to smaller cities.
3. Plan the new cities by creating true suburbs connected to the business hubs by high speed and high frequency public transport systems. Like in US and EU, where people travel 60-70 miles easily to their workplaces, without getting tired, or soaking in sweat.


I commute from Dharuhera to Gurgaon (NH8 - 55 Km) and then back. I would be happy to commute by a metro to Udyog Vihar. That way I can also put the commute time to better use by getting some work done on the way.
When I moved to my new place, I initially used public transport but the bus drivers pick up passengers only when they have spare time. If they are in a hurry, they drop passengers some 100 mtrs before the bus stop and skip us. While sometimes they stop at the bus stop for 20-30 min.
The commute time also became unpredictable ranging between 1 hr to 2.5 hr.
I had no other choice but to use my own vehicle for commute. This added one more car on the road with only one passenger.

Or better yet, having a job for my profile within 10-15 km or my residence. (As mentioned by napster in Point 2) But not a solution for now. When I look for jobs beyond Gurgaon, I find none. No IT companies beyond GGN.
I had been in the crowded capital for 10+ yrs and needed a break from the congestion. The only solution I could come up with was staying in Dharuhera and working in GGN.

Last edited by MaheshY1 : 8th October 2014 at 10:11. Reason: Additional points
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Old 8th October 2014, 10:58   #30
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Default Re: Are Flyovers the solution to traffic congestion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent Martin View Post
I think you referring to my statement. that prompted me to check on internet for any related articles and here is what I found

http://www.fastcompany.com/1756746/b...s-more-traffic
@ Accent Martin : I am sorry that you took this comment personally even though I haven't referred to you in particular. I was speaking my mind on the subject against a general argument in found in this thread 'More flyovers will lead to more cars'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent Martin View Post
@charanreddy: please learn to respect people's opinions and do not add negative adjectives to describe anybody's views. You can counter argue with facts!
In my personal, humble opinion, this is completely uncalled for. I didn't refer to you at all and I have spoken against a line of thought.

Inconveniencing people with deliberate lack of infrastructure is something I am strongly against though I agree that we need to be in general more environment conscious. We need technology / better engines to solve this problem for us, which is by and large happening. Public Transport is also key but not the only solution. Consider this, what if your loved one is in an ambulance and stuck in traffic.

Any infrastructure development that makes the lives of people easy is welcome for me.

I have given you a personal example of how I have benefited from the ORR fly over in Bangalore. Folks from Bangalore who feel the same may please comment. I don't think facts on the internet (Your article talks about Los Angeles which is very different from what we face here) are in any way more reflective of the ground realities in the Cities / Country we live in.

Again, I regret if my post sounded offensive. Completely unintended !

Last edited by charanreddy : 8th October 2014 at 11:08. Reason: Added comment. Thanks !
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