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Old 19th January 2015, 15:18   #31
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

1) A gentleman would say "Let me get my Learner's License and then we will go for a spin son"
2) A responsible owner would say "I am not letting you to drive the vehicle till you get your Leaner's License. As the owner I should not allow a person without license to use the vehicle in public roads"^
3) A law abiding citizen "I will not make a false statement for my personal gain or to hide an illegal activity"*

#1 & #2 probably would not have prevented this accident but would have made their presence on the road legal and would make #3 more open to fair transactions.

Sad to see a damaged Alto, always love the Alto. My condolences for the TBHP sticker. The calf does not know how close it could have been.

^ - A gentleman owner would apply this to himself, if that be the case.
* - Law abiding citizen is different from a saint.
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Old 19th January 2015, 15:32   #32
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

While most are suggesting you to ask the person pay for the total repairs and not to use your insurance. I have a totally different views, as someone rightly said, accidents happen and at times with no fault of yours. And looking at the background of this particular accident, I would take the route where in I don't have to pay from my pocket for repairs. Which means I would stick to what you have mentioned i.e. NCB and other cost not covered under insurance to be payed by the person.

End of the day in a locality like yours I would value relations above money! Just my views and many are free to disagree
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Old 19th January 2015, 15:38   #33
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

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Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post

End of the day in a locality like yours I would value relations above money! Just my views and many are free to disagree
I would so much agree with this similar view point.
I too suggest you stick to your thought process of going with the Insurance and as a notional ask your neighbor to pay for the NCB loss %.

Money can be earned and lost, but relationship and most importantly that person's gentleness in coming and admitting that he had done it should be valued and respected more.
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Old 19th January 2015, 15:38   #34
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

Just my two cents. The old man has been decent. Very decent. Gentleman or not. We don't see decency like this these days.

Accidents happen. But there is no need for you to pay with your insurance. Get it fixed at ASC and claim the money from him.

Let's not really go into stuff like he didn't have a license, so illegal etc. Just my opinion.
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Old 19th January 2015, 15:41   #35
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

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Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
End of the day in a locality like yours I would value relations above money! Just my views and many are free to disagree
We learn only from experience and wisdom, that money is not everything.

The NCB is too small an amount to worry about. However do ensure that every part damaged due to the collision is either replaced or repaired, depending on the technical requirement
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Old 19th January 2015, 15:47   #36
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
I think I'm going against the tide here but this whole thing feels totally wrong.

Because the paperwork was in progress, because the gentleman might not even have a driving license in the first place, because there was an eye-witness....

Just because insurance companies are meant to pay for damages doesn't mean they should be taken for granted to pay even when they shouldn't have to.

I might have missed something and would be glad to get educated but if that isn't the case then why would this wrong-doing be supported by all, including Mods!

Bhpians driving with black films or fancy number plates are frowned upon and would become a punching bag if they were to divulge similar details but a false insurance claim is more than welcome, why the double standards?

Would we welcome the claim even if we were holding stake in the company that is ownering the claim?
This is no false claim in my opinion. Many times our cars suffer damages in small accidents in city and we choose to get it repaired from our own insurance because we all know the long, hectic process of claiming the third party insurance. Plus the police and FIR thing. Who has time and evergy to waste on something that is not worth? And are our vehicles supposed to sit in the service center in damaged condition until the court approves the third party insurance claim? If insurance is paying us the damages, they are not doing charity. We pay hefty premiums every year for it.

As far as I know, in case of used vehicles, one needs to intimate the insurance company about the ownership change within 45 days of the RC transfer. In this case, it looks like the ownership itself has not changed in the RC, hence the claim, if any, can be only filed on the previous owner, which complicates the matter even more.

Hence, in my opinion, the OP has done the right thing; but just as I said, he should have re-framed his post just stating that he is claiming his own insurance rather than lodging complain as offender not known.

Regards.

Last edited by saket77 : 19th January 2015 at 15:50.
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Old 19th January 2015, 22:21   #37
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

That is painful ! Your car is well maintained , hurts to see in this condition. What was the extent of damage to his car ? Seems the debris are only from your car.
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Old 19th January 2015, 22:21   #38
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

Thanks to each and every one of you for your advice/suggestions/views. I was tied up with some work for the whole day today and couldn't spare much time in replying to your posts. Apologies for that.

Reading through the posts and doing some work on the NCB portion, I did realize that it might not be as small an amount as I had initially thought of and I'm likely to lose more by using my insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
I looked at the pictures again and again but could not understand how and where he hit your car. The damages seems to be from the compound wall only.

Overall, this is considerable amount of damage but not very serious. I think you took the right approach.
Thanks! The car was hit on the portion just above the left-rear wheel and was sandwiched between the other car and the wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Yes, the tree did the major damage to the right hand side. The only good thing the doors are spared from the tree else the estimate would have been higher.
The car escaped from the tree by, literally, hair's breadth. The right rear had hit the wall by then and there was no more space to move laterally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
I think I'm going against the tide here but this whole thing feels totally wrong.

Because the paperwork was in progress, because the gentleman might not even have a driving license in the first place, because there was an eye-witness....

Just because insurance companies are meant to pay for damages doesn't mean they should be taken for granted to pay even when they shouldn't have to.

I might have missed something and would be glad to get educated but if that isn't the case then why would this wrong-doing be supported by all, including Mods!

Bhpians driving with black films or fancy number plates are frowned upon and would become a punching bag if they were to divulge similar details but a false insurance claim is more than welcome, why the double standards?

Would we welcome the claim even if we were holding stake in the company that is ownering the claim?
I see your statement as one coming from an emotional angle and not from a practical point-of-view. Let me quote the point of another gentleman in our forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Otherwise, claiming insurance, and figuring out the value of a few years of NCB loss + cash expenses is the fair calculation.

Basically think of it as if your son / wife / father / mother / cousin had done it - figure out the costs exactly as you would've done in that situation first, and then ask him to pay.
Now, applying the same son/wife/father/mother theory on your point - if one of these people had the misfortune of bruising your car, would you not go ahead and claim the insurance? Secondly, what if you had rented a car and God-forbid, had an accident in that? Would you be paying the whole amount from your pocket or ask the rental company to go for insurance? I'm more open to stand myself corrected, if I have missed anything here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invidious View Post
Is YOUR insurance company liable to pay? NO! It is the insurance company of the man in question which is liable to pay. Ripping off the insurance company is probably not the best of ideas - it will delay the procedure for those claimants who are genuinely aggrieved.
Both the parties have the same insurance!
Ripping off the insurance company? That's a word too strong, I believe.
And lastly, do you really thing that this will delay the procedure for others?

And for other posts:
I did not see the Accent personally post the accident. This person told that it has got a damaged bonnet and front-bumper and some more stuff. He was not much adept in explaining the technical stuff.

Regarding the cost/claim etc.
I talked with this person again and has told him about the my loss w.r.t. NCB etc. And we haven't come to a conclusion yet - though he has asked me to work out the amount that I might lose by this. Am yet to do this.

Will keep you all updated. Thanks again!
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Old 19th January 2015, 23:38   #39
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

I would have done the same only for the reason he was a gentleman and genuinely sorry. It's more of a emotional decision but that's how it is. However please let him know how much you saved him. So that he also realizes the same.

Secondly, insurance companies are there on forums. I think you should be careful of publicly saying that you knew about the person but claimed you didn't. This will not only make you lose your claim but also they may take legal actions. They look for options not to pay specially on a old car since the premiums are less. Maybe I am exaggerating and paranoid but it doesn't harm to be careful.
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Old 20th January 2015, 05:15   #40
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

Vijay, thats bad damage to a good car.

From what Sherlock Holmes says, the so called newbie old man would have been trying to turn his car around. The moment it made contact with your Alto's rear left side near the wheel, he would have panicked and stepped harder on the accelerator instead of the brake, causing the alto to pivot around, dragging the front end and causing the front left tyre to rupture, and the right rear end to bash into your compound wall.

I think you should go with the insurance claim, and then claim the balance amount including the damages caused to your compound wall from the old man. He had been quite sincere in trying to wake you up immediately after the incident, and to be there at your house first thing in the morning, to own up his mistake. Something which is hard to come by nowadays. He could have kept quite about the whole incident, and you would have been left wondering how your car got into this mess.

The whole reason behind getting the car insured is to cover up for these sort of accidents.

Hope you get your car back in shape and, yes, do not forget to check the front axles as well, as it looks like the front end was dragged laterally, till the rear end hit your compound wall.

Mod Note: Please take the time to format your posts.

Last edited by Aditya : 21st January 2015 at 12:02. Reason: Refer mod note inline
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Old 20th January 2015, 09:25   #41
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPTAIN REX View Post
He had been quite sincere in trying to wake you up immediately after the incident, and to be there at your house first thing in the morning, to own up his mistake. Something which is hard to come by nowadays. He could have kept quite about the whole incident, and you would have been left wondering how your car got into this mess.
The old man was being a gentleman and sincere enough because as told by OP that there was an eye witness in the case and sure enough he was afraid that what if the OP files a police complaint, that's why the hurry in waking up the entire family so early in the morning in an effort to save his own neck.

For the OP as he stated that the auspicious day did start with a big bang for him. It feels sorry to say but the approach taken by the Op seems to be the right one here as claiming third party insurance is such a tedious task in our country.
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Old 20th January 2015, 12:20   #42
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

Quote:
Originally Posted by callvvijay View Post
I see your statement as one coming from an emotional angle and not from a practical point-of-view.
I'm all for practicality but my point is not whether what you did was practical or not. My question to all is whether what you did was RIGHT or not?

You knew who the culprit was and you knew a whole lot more than that. You didn't want to go the FIR way simply because the shortcut saved you time. My point here is simply that if shortcuts are accepted here then heading the wrong way (substantiating my claim further by saying that there was no traffic on the other side) shouldn't be looked down upon if I share with the forum that had I stayed in my lane it would've taken me an hour.

On a railway crossing when vehicles line up on the wrong lane also facing each other, it creates a temporary jam and probably takes 10-15 mins extra to get cleared. Why should we call it wrong then, its totally practical for the wrong-doer who would otherwise have gone back in line with 50-100 cars in front of him. Its practical, ain't it?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by callvvijay View Post
Now, applying the same son/wife/father/mother theory on your point - if one of these people had the misfortune of bruising your car, would you not go ahead and claim the insurance? Secondly, what if you had rented a car and God-forbid, had an accident in that? Would you be paying the whole amount from your pocket or ask the rental company to go for insurance? I'm more open to stand myself corrected, if I have missed anything here.
Can I be a little blunt and say that if one of our kids committed a murder would be not try to save them. Its obviously more practical than anything else. Analogies are good, just that they don't make a wrong, right!

The point here is not of what you did but why wouldn't someone else's practicality garner similar support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by callvvijay View Post
Both the parties have the same insurance!
Ripping off the insurance company? That's a word too strong, I believe.
And lastly, do you really thing that this will delay the procedure for others?
Absolutely the right word to be used. You hid information from the insurance company. You have affected a particular branch's P&L when some other branch should've covered the loss. In this case probably the "gentleman" should've paid the entire amount because most likely his paperwork wouldn't have been in place.
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Old 20th January 2015, 12:51   #43
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

Vijay, from what I saw that morning, I am certain the car was not parked near your car where the drivers switched places, and this newbie hit your car while starting. There is no way your car could have moved so much sideways leaving that much tyre marks, if he did that. I am very sure that Accent carried a lot of momentum when it hit your Alto.

Simply because he has owned up to his mistake and offered to pay does not mean we must compromise on the quality of work to keep his bill low. Have it done at ABT to your satisfaction. If the hatch door is damaged, have it replaced - repair of hatch doors don't come out well - as well as anything else that needs replacement. Pay through your insurance to the extent they will pass the bill, and collect the difference + NCB from the offending gentleman!

It will be better to indicate a slightly higher indicative figure to him and then present a lower bill, than the other way round. I would have been happier to see your car go to MSM, they have the best body shop and paint booth among MASS centres IMO.

Also, perform a side slip and suspension test and ensure things are OK. MSM have the facility, I am not sure of ABT. Best of luck.
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Old 20th January 2015, 13:04   #44
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
I'm all for practicality but my point is not whether what you did was practical or not. My question to all is whether what you did was RIGHT or not?

You knew who the culprit was and you knew a whole lot more than that. You didn't want to go the FIR way simply because the shortcut saved you time. My point here is simply that if shortcuts are accepted here then heading the wrong way (substantiating my claim further by saying that there was no traffic on the other side) shouldn't be looked down upon if I share with the forum that had I stayed in my lane it would've taken me an hour.

On a railway crossing when vehicles line up on the wrong lane also facing each other, it creates a temporary jam and probably takes 10-15 mins extra to get cleared. Why should we call it wrong then, its totally practical for the wrong-doer who would otherwise have gone back in line with 50-100 cars in front of him. Its practical, ain't it?!


Can I be a little blunt and say that if one of our kids committed a murder would be not try to save them. Its obviously more practical than anything else. Analogies are good, just that they don't make a wrong, right!

The point here is not of what you did but why wouldn't someone else's practicality garner similar support?


Absolutely the right word to be used. You hid information from the insurance company. You have affected a particular branch's P&L when some other branch should've covered the loss. In this case probably the "gentleman" should've paid the entire amount because most likely his paperwork wouldn't have been in place.
Dear Fine69,

According to your argument, the 'gentleman' should have paid the entire amount if his car's insurance is not valid. And if his insurance was valid, then his insurer should have paid the damages. Right? Then please explain the purpose of taking first policy insurance when in most accidents the other person or his insurer is to pay. Then we all can save a major part of our vehicle insurance premium by not insuring our own vehicle as first party insurance or 'own damages'. But it is not practical. The FIR, court case etc take a lot of time and individual's money, and energy to get through it. I am sure you will also not support the idea that a lot of bribes also need to be shelled in the process for obtaining case diaries in your favor. Lakhs of third party insurance cases are pending in courts throughout India. Can you afford to let your vehicle sit in the service center for all this time? Who pays for the inconvenience caused? Who undertakes the risk that the service center will take care of your vehicle for all this time? All these factors are more important for me than maintaining branch P/Ls of MNCs. There is no 'ripping' of the insurer. One has paid hefty premiums to be entitled for a claim.

Some points in your posts point out to some background for your argument based on some of your experience, which I am probably not aware of. Let's discuss on the merit of each case rather than generalizing all situations.

Regards.

Last edited by saket77 : 20th January 2015 at 13:16.
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Old 20th January 2015, 13:44   #45
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Default Re: Newbie driver crashes into my parked car - Spins it 45 degrees!

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Dear Fine69,

According to your argument, the 'gentleman' should have paid the entire amount if his car's insurance is not valid......
Why such emphasis on hefty premium. Someone pays premium for life insurance but he dies of a disease not covered in insurance. His family hides the fact from the insurer because its obviously more practical to get the insurance money in 8 digits then divulge all details and not get anything.

Here also my point is that the OP hid details from the insurer. Why couldn't he simply say that he's paid a hefty premium and it doesn't matter what other factors are associated with this accident. Hefty premium doesn't mean hiding details from insurer is right. It sure is practical and my argument isn't about whether this was or wasn't a practical solution.

Now coming to the other part of my argument. For you a vehicle sitting in the service center is too impractical which is why this approach is absolutely acceptable. Why wouldn't it be right for someone to cut through the wrong lane to get ahead. Here he's not even hiding anything from anybody. Why when a bhpian who breaks traffic rules is frowned upon when practicality is all we care about.

Isn't it more practical to not wait on a red light when there is no traffic from any other side? Its most definitely practical but absolutely not right, that's what my point has been from the beginning.

One may say that jumping a red light to avoid 2 mins isn't practical but for someone else it might be. So why someone else's practicality is frowned upon?

Inconvenience doesn't have to be physical always. Here somebody is paying money when they shouldn't and if you ask "them", it sure is inconvenient to them. Hefty premium doesn't mean blanket cover to the vehicle irrespective of the actual events otherwise the policy document would simply have said, "No matter what happens to your car, we'll pay!"

What if going the third-party way meant 15 days of waiting time or 5 days or 5 hours or 50 days? We all decide practicality based on our convenience and there isn't really a set criteria to decide what is practical and what is not.
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