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Old 23rd February 2015, 10:15   #46
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

I've gone this experience many times in Bangalore.

Once, a BMTC bus almost rammed from behind, while I was returning from the Railway station in the evening. Frustrated with the bus driver's incessant honking, when I got out of the car to check what happened, he yelled at me for not letting him pass (as if there was space!).

Another instance was while I was on way back from work, when a big Scorpio-sized car came very close to hitting me from the side and I had to literally swerve left and stop. When I started to move again (and as I caught up in the traffic), the guy who was driving it braked suddenly, causing me to stop abruptly - all this is happening in moving traffic. Couple of days later, I realised that this is a trick employed by some idiots in that area, and they pick a fight with other cars!

So much for being sensitive to others and being safe on the road!

A large majority of us are living/growing upto a bunch of intolerant people in many aspects of our lives, not only on the road. Seriously, we need to take a deep breath, relax and think calmly about what's happening around us - especially when on the road !

It's a habit that we must start working on, pronto !

I really wish we all do.
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Old 23rd February 2015, 10:17   #47
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
I don't blame the police.
This is a deeper problem. I don't know if an external factor like a large number of efficient, honest policemen can cure the issue.
Thanks for putting the problem in such a beautiful way. And I completely agree with you that no matter how many numbers of police professional we put, its never going to be enough unless we change ourselves and learn some manner. I have always seen that even those who wait for the signal to turn Green, are waiting for someone to breach the signal. Once, one person crosses it, rest of the folks start to follow like a herd. And it becomes more difficult for police to control as people from all sides start breaking the rule.

And to some extent, we with our stupid behavior have made the police inactive and get an attitude which in words would be like "If they themselves do not want to be safe, then why should I bother??"
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Old 23rd February 2015, 10:37   #48
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

The problem here is actually with enforcement of law. When a traffic rule is imposed, its followed strictly initially and later on as time goes by it becomes lethargic, cops catch us for violation only when they want to. This is what is happening with helmet rule also. If strict traffic rules are imposed, the cops should ensure that it is followed, only then citizens will follow the rules.
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Old 23rd February 2015, 10:52   #49
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

Nice thread!! In my humble opinion, there is no one step solution for this. This requires a massive overhaul of mentality of all Indians. First, the drivers need to be educated at the time of issuing the license. Make the process of gaining license a strict one and make sure that it is no joke as it is now.

Now when a person gets to the road and starts driving, make sure that he is well aware of what are the rules to be followed by installing VISIBLE boards.
When someone breaks the rule, make sure that shelling a few bucks is not going to save his ass. Make sure that he repents doing it, either social service for a couple of days or make him attend a PAID (out of his own pocket) counselling of traffic rules which runs for a few days (This will bear no cost to the government as the violators will pay for this and this in turn will produce quite a few job opportunities) . Basically, make sure that he is at some kind of loss other than money so that the next time, he will think twice before breaking the law.

Now to make the above happen, the police should have some kind of self-respect, so that they make sure that the guilty is booked and not allowed to get away bribing them, this one I think is the most difficult of things to do. The best thing to do is, just take away any human part in the booking procedure. Install cameras and automate the whole procedure, when the camera flashes, make a system where the number is looked up in some kind of database which has the details of all the registered vehicles in the country and the notice is sent to the owner without any human interference.
Now for repeat offenders, cancel their license. And make sure that the process for getting it re-instated is pure hell.

I dont know if this make sense, but the sheer amount of senseless things that happen on Indian roads call for drastic meaures before it is too late.
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Old 23rd February 2015, 11:04   #50
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

In my opinion, there are many aspects to this problem. As many of you have pointed out, the law enforcement is slack. Stricter enforcement will lead to better law adherence. Fear of the law and huge penalties for not following the law are very strong factors. I can not imagine driving my car in the US they way I drive here.

The other aspect is our own attitude, lack of respect and lack of patience while driving. This is something that we have to learn from the west. We call ourselves a society where people are more socially connected and perhaps more human. Unfortunately, this couldn't be further from the truth. In my time in the US, I found that the people there are, well, more human. Its not like they are not self centric. They are, but they also care for others. They think if my actions are going to cause any sort of inconvenience to others. This is the sort of attitude that will take a society forward. We are very far away from that. Don't know about life in smaller towns and villages, but in major indian cities, no one cares for others. Till we start doing that, we are not going to be able to make our roads a better place to drive - no matter how good the enforcement is.

P.s This is a general observation based on the majority of the people. There are obviously exceptions everywhere...
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Old 23rd February 2015, 11:37   #51
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

Agree with all that the problem is endemic. What gets my goat is that even police & traffic police guys do the same. I have had police vehicles incessantly honking behind me on a traffic light. Once had a constable get down and rudely ask me to move on a red light . I politely refused pointing out to the signal. He then claimed emergency. So asked him why no light and sirens? He used some choice expletives to which I rolled up my window.

OT - On an another note, if I was a betting person and had to bet if the guys in any 'batti' vehicle, be it police, BMC, Ministries would not be wearing a seat belt, I would be a millionaire.
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Old 23rd February 2015, 11:52   #52
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

On a related note, I am increasingly getting irritated at people who honk without any reason.

a) When you are at a traffic light that is red, or just turned green and there is no space ahead to go until the traffic clears or
b) When someone is trying to overtake but there is no space for them to do so.

Recently a car was trying to overtake rashly while constantly blowing its pressure horn. I feel like stopping all together, get down from my bike and ask them on what's bothering them. If people do this repeatedly, I make it a point that I keep meandering ahead of them at a very slow speed while they continuously honk and grow impatient. I need to keep myself calm and not get affected by such people, but that horn gets onto my nerves! :(
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Old 23rd February 2015, 12:13   #53
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivek_vt View Post
I make it a point that I keep meandering ahead of them at a very slow speed while they continuously honk and grow impatient. I need to keep myself calm and not get affected by such people, but that horn gets onto my nerves! :(
While I understand your frustration and agree with you, in today's world it is a dangerous thing to do. You never know what kind of sadistic driver or a criminal is driving the vehicle behind you. Just for the heck of it, he might try and run you down. Don't think its worth your life trying to teach those brainless idiots a lesson, my friend. Someday, they will learn a lesson, and hopefully a painful one.
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Old 23rd February 2015, 12:37   #54
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by msrsooraj View Post
The smart Chap "outsmarted" the cops. .... little community kind of a thing that warns and informs people about police in advance.
Valid point, I agree
There will always be people trying to outsmart and get over the rules. This happens in the "developed" world also where people just overspeed breaking the limit wherever the speed cameras are not present or where they believe they won't be caught. Although illegal in most countries, some people use radar detectors to avoid being ticketed.

Attempts to hoodwink/outsmart the cops is a global phenomenon and we can't expect this behaviour to go away even in future, it will remain and thats the truth.
Where effective law enforcement can help is to keep this behaviour in check and as minimum as possible so that in general, the roads are relatively more safer and predictable for the majority of users.


Quote:
Originally Posted by msrsooraj View Post
A sense of safety should come from the inside. But a law abiding, safety conscious life style is a CULTURE that has to be developed. It does not come in a single year or two.

....... That is something I learned from my father.
+1
Here also, the fundamental lack of awareness of the rules and dangers/consequences to self and others plays a major role in the lack of sense of safety.
If our system does its part to ensure that each and every person applying for a driving license has acquired the knowledge about rules, good traffic behaviour, perils of not heeding safety. it will go a long way in improving our situation.
Historically, people could get around the law to acquire a driving license, there have been no stringent driving tests and checks. All this leads to a lot of ill-informed drivers/riders on our streets.
Its never too late even now, if there is a will, they can make the process of issuing new licenses more stringent with safety awareness accounted. It has to start somewhere.
Even for the existing license holders, safety camps about rules etc can be conducted to build awarenes at regular intervals and they can mandate that attending atleast one of them for Eg: atleast once in two years should be mandatory in order to retain the license.

I believe that the chances of a well-informed person deliberately jeopardizing safety would be less (There will always be exceptions)
When the awareness levels will increase, safety will become a culture and will get passed on to the next generation.

Last edited by for_cars1 : 23rd February 2015 at 12:40.
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Old 23rd February 2015, 12:42   #55
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

To me, it's more of a discipline thing. When there are rules, people should automatically follow rules even if there's no one to monitor. Why should there always be someone to keep us in check if rules are made?
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Old 23rd February 2015, 12:52   #56
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

I did not even have to read the contents of the original post to figure out that this thread started with an experience of traffic in Pune.

I face the same on a daily basis and went through a phase a couple of weeks back when I didn't feel like driving at all. Spent the entire week travelling via Uber till I could regain some composure.

I am slowly getting back to using my vehicle but unfortunately my pulse shoots up whenever I see someone openly violating traffic norms even in front of the cops who are more interested in catching the big trucks and trailers with the intention of making a quick buck.

In short, I feel things will only change once the next generation of educated and sensible adults assume a majority on the roads. Till then, I guess we have no choice but to suffer. I suppose all we can do in times like this is to do things to stabilise our own self rather than expecting the world to be right.
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Old 23rd February 2015, 13:00   #57
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

Dear all - I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. Read this and laugh. Please, don't even think of trying it!

I work in Pune and as my home is very far from where I work, I have to perforce drive through the spine of the city everyday. My comments are as follows:

1. I am a 58 years old typical "bawa", and therefore, I look like the proverbial "uncle" to other road users, including the idiots who do all the nonsense on the road!
2. The idiots who do all the nonsense on the road obviusly do not know that I happen to be a professional vehicle evaluation engineer, my job is to evaluate vehicles day-in and day-out.
3. Besides my job (which is the best job in the world), my passion is driving. I absolutely love driving, particularly full night driving. Whether it is normal city driving (where I am very docile for obvious reasons, there's no point otherwise) / highway driving (where I don't really drive fast nowadays, but still I effortlessly overtake just about everybody and disappear without people even realizing that something went, my friends who are in the car silently watch, wonder, and try to copy but they don't seem to get it, then I show them the technique, then they appreciate) / test driving on closed circuit test tracks (wow!) / test driving in high speed durability mode (wow again!) / test driving on mofussil B grade roads (normal in the daytime, if the test requires a flatout, then only in the dead of night) etc. I absolutely enjoy myself.
4. Obviously, safety is paramount. Test engineers driving flat out are safer drivers than most of the idiots out there!
5. I also get to see morons everyday. Just the other day, here I was, calmly standing in the left lane at the red Pimpri signal of the Pune Mumbai road and I get a guy honking madly behind me. So I moved a little ahead, gave him a nice polite hand signal to go and take the left turn (the signal was still red), gave him my typical "harmless uncle" smile without actually looking at him, heard him say "kya unkil" (not "uncle", mind you, that's the extent to which these lowlifes have stooped ), gave blank looks to the other guys standing there, saw the smirks on the rikshaw drivers' faces, calmly took the left turn when the signal turned green after some 30 seconds, absolutely effortlessly, without any undue manoeuvres, caught up with him and then calmly overtook him 5 times upto the Chinchwad turnoff without the slightest risk to anybody else on the road, seemingly slowing down everytime to allow him to go ahead and then overtaking him again and again without ever looking at him!
5. The guy was not as dumb as he looked. He understood. So, at the next signal, he waited next to me till the light turned green. Maybe he wanted a drag race, he never got one (its dangerous). So, being the good "unkil", I calmly allowed him, actually fell back a couple of cars as I could see him watching in his rear view mirror, he went ahead for a full kilometer and then I decimated the hell out of him. He never saw me again! I saw him, within 30 seconds, he was a mere speck in my rear view mirror. Period! QED!

Moral of the story, there's no point getting into an argument, I never do it, it's just not worth it. In 99 out of 100 situations, I don't even react, except in certain situations like the one I mentioned! Nobody else on the road even realized what was going on, nobody was at risk, I was still the safest driver on the road.

"Ay circuit, isko batana, sab "unkil" log normal nahin hote! Mere liye, dinka hazaar kilometer normal hai, kya? Raat ke do baje, ghat mein, full baarish mein, full chamcha (accelerator pedal) mera rozka hai, kya"? Ek saal ke andar dedh laakh kilometer, rozka hai, kya! Abhi jaa naa, dimagka chemical locha mat kar"! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 23rd February 2015, 13:16   #58
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

@ Behram Sir

Hilarious and such a relevant post.
You have so deftly yet with great impact put this across.

The situation is worst probably in the smaller towns. I remember during my visit to Patna, the honking menace on Red signals was so much that I avoided venturing out on the roads again and encountering morons all the way!!
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Old 23rd February 2015, 13:24   #59
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
.. So, being the good "unkil", I calmly allowed him, actually fell back a couple of cars as I could see him watching in his rear view mirror, he went ahead for a full kilometer and then I decimated the hell out of him. He never saw me again! I saw him, within 30 seconds, he was a mere speck in my rear view mirror. Period! QED!
Hahaha! Epic trolling sir! Pure genius!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Moral of the story, there's no point getting into an argument, I never do it, it's just not worth it. In 99 out of 100 situations, I don't even react, except in certain situations like the one I mentioned! Nobody else on the road even realized what was going on, nobody was at risk, I was still the safest driver on the road.
Truer words have rarely been spoken. I think there is a lesson for all of us in the anecdote above.

@DHABHAR.BEHRAM Sir in your experience across cities, is this red light honking menace common or is it something unique to Punekars?
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Old 23rd February 2015, 13:51   #60
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Default Re: Am I the only idiot here to wait at a red light?

Such a common sight. My observations so far are:
1) One or just another are willing to wait a red light when traffic is low and no visible cop
2) At times, others just stop seeing you stopped. Just like how others jump signal when they see few jump with ease. Herd mentality.
3) Stopping by for a red light during early hours or later in night, can be very dangerous. You will have to often watch the RVM more than the signal light ahead. You never know some one may just bang you from behind for following the rules
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