Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Street Experiences


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th March 2015, 14:49   #31
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,073
Thanked: 3,667 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
Isnt this a loop hole?
Would not say so. Helps families to get some compensation in case of injuries or in the unfortunate case of death.
saket77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2015, 14:57   #32
BHPian
 
::CMS::'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 572
Thanked: 450 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Would not say so. Helps families to get some compensation in case of injuries or in the unfortunate case of death.
Hmm... an alternative as a premium-less term insurance, isnt it?
::CMS:: is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2015, 15:01   #33
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10
Thanked: 8 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Some more information on this subject which was reported in Deccan Herald
Ref Link: http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...rest-rare.html
sunilnp is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2015, 16:20   #34
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 55
Thanked: 42 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Apart from the advice imparted, was the deceased wearing a seatbelt. If he ignored safety practices, that could be a mitigating circumstance.
I am just unable to recollect, does Maruti 800 DX 5 speed 2001 model come with seat belts?
chevyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2015, 16:26   #35
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,073
Thanked: 3,667 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyman View Post
I am just unable to recollect, does Maruti 800 DX 5 speed 2001 model come with seat belts?
Yes. For All five pax. (4 adults + 1 child). I cannot recollect the exact time but front seat belts were fitted in all cars (mandatory) since middle 90s. By 2000, all cars were fitted with rear pax seatbelts as well.
saket77 is online now   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2015, 16:48   #36
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 905
Thanked: 353 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
If a passenger doesn't wear seat belt or disregards any safety practices, isn't it the responsibility of the driver of the vehicle to ensure it is enforced?
Good point. I think it is true, considering that the Driver/Conductor of a public transport is responsible for passengers injuring themselves while travelling on the footboard.
jinojohnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2015, 16:58   #37
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,073
Thanked: 3,667 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
If a passenger doesn't wear seat belt or disregards any safety practices, isn't it the responsibility of the driver of the vehicle to ensure it is enforced? I'm asking this since I see a possibility of this argument coming back at his father in case the passenger was not wearing a seat belt. It could always be argued that the deceased was not aware of the benefits of seat belts and the driver of the car did nothing to educate him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
Good point. I think it is true, considering that the Driver/Conductor of a public transport is responsible for passengers injuring themselves while travelling on the footboard.

Good point ZenRen!

But if I am not wrong, putting on a seatbelt is a law. And then there is something like 'Ignorantia juris non excusat' in law - which is latin for ignorance of the law does not excuse. Hence, if the lawyer is smart, he can put forward this point and discharge OP's father with this point at least.
saket77 is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2015, 17:00   #38
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,578
Thanked: 1,722 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Yes. For All five pax. (4 adults + 1 child). I cannot recollect the exact time but front seat belts were fitted in all cars (mandatory) since middle 90s. By 2000, all cars were fitted with rear pax seatbelts as well.
For front seats, it was made a mandatory fitment from March 1994. For rear seats, it was enforced from October 2002.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
But if I am not wrong, putting on a seatbelt is a law. And then there is something like 'Ignorantia juris non excusat' in law - which is latin for ignorance of the law does not excuse. Hence, if the lawyer is smart, he can put forward this point and discharge OP's father with this point at least.
If putting on seat belt is mandated by the law and the passenger ignored it for whatever reason, the driver of the car is equally responsible. 'Ignorantia juris non excusat' applies to the driver too. He should not have driven that car without ensuring that all passengers are safely seated in his car. In some of the states in US where it is a primary/secondary offense to not wear seat belts, the driver is fined for non-compliant passengers. One of my friends ended up paying the fine since his friend in rear seat unbuckled himself after being pulled over since the guy was without a seat belt when the cop came over.

Last edited by zenren : 16th March 2015 at 17:09. Reason: Added reply
zenren is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2015, 11:11   #39
BHPian
 
Jaguar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 555
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Suggesting loopholes like wearing or not wearing seatbelts is not something I expected from a reputed automobile forum. IMO this is nothing different from a third class advocate arguing that it was the rape victim's fault to go out at night.
Whatever happened is unfortunate and the person who made a mistake has to pay. Here the mistake is not renewing the insurance and the vehicle owner is responsible. The compensation amount etc will have to be determined by the court and the parties involved. I suggest we close this thread.
Jaguar is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2015, 11:18   #40
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 55
Thanked: 42 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
Whatever happened is unfortunate and the person who made a mistake has to pay. Here the mistake is not renewing the insurance and the vehicle owner is responsible. The compensation amount etc will have to be determined by the court and the parties involved. I suggest we close this thread.
Agreed. So who is responsible for this accident? My father was driving sedately and a truck suddenly changed lane and to avoid collision my father swerved and fell off the highway. If the driver tries his best to avoid collision, is he responsible for the accident?

Not renewing insurance is a fault. So whats the penalty for this as per law? Moreover unless the driver fault is proven there is no liability on the driver or owner of the vehicle.
chevyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2015, 11:25   #41
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,852
Thanked: 15,407 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyman View Post
Agreed. So who is responsible for this accident? My father was driving sedately and a truck suddenly changed lane and to avoid collision my father swerved and fell off the highway. If the driver tries his best to avoid collision, is he responsible for the accident?

Not renewing insurance is a fault. So whats the penalty for this as per law? Moreover unless the driver fault is proven there is no liability on the driver or owner of the vehicle.
The Penalty is 50,000 rs, but that is the standard penalty you must pay irrespective of who was at fault.
But actual compensation the courts will decide.
If their family have gotten compensation from govt, and court feels that is sufficient, then you may not need to pay anything. However, if the court feels its not sufficient, it has to be paid by your BIL/Family. So hire a lawyer, and fight it out in the court. In the end only the court can decide.
tsk1979 is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2015, 11:27   #42
BHPian
 
Jaguar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 555
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyman View Post
Agreed. So who is responsible for this accident? My father was driving sedately and a truck suddenly changed lane and to avoid collision my father swerved and fell off the highway. If the driver tries his best to avoid collision, is he responsible for the accident?

Not renewing insurance is a fault. So whats the penalty for this as per law? Moreover unless the driver fault is proven there is no liability on the driver or owner of the vehicle.
I never said that your father is at fault. This was an accident and insurance is mandatory for exactly this reason 'AN ACCIDENT'.

It is no so straightforwad my friend. The driver might not be liable but the vehicle owner will be deemed liable for running a vehicle without proper documentation.

Penalty is to be determined by the court not us forum members.
Jaguar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2015, 11:44   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
sdp1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,573
Thanked: 879 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
Suggesting loopholes like wearing or not wearing seatbelts is not something I expected from a reputed automobile forum.
There's no loophole here. It's standard practice in the MACT to reduce the compensation amount due to contributory negligence.

I remember a specific case where a passenger had his hand kept out of the bus window. The bus met with an accident and he suffered a fractured hand. The hon'ble judge reduced the compensation amount due to his keeping the hand outside the window.

Last edited by sdp1975 : 17th March 2015 at 11:48.
sdp1975 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2015, 12:14   #44
BHPian
 
Grr7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 186
Thanked: 189 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyman View Post
Agreed. So who is responsible for this accident? My father was driving sedately and a truck suddenly changed lane and to avoid collision my father swerved and fell off the highway. If the driver tries his best to avoid collision, is he responsible for the accident?

Not renewing insurance is a fault. So whats the penalty for this as per law? Moreover unless the driver fault is proven there is no liability on the driver or owner of the vehicle.
Chevyman, don't take it personally. The responsibility of safe driving is always the onus of driver. If I rear end/bang into another vehicle for whatsoever reason(front driver applying emergency brake, coming to my lane suddenly etc etc), it is totally my fault because that means that the vehicle wasn't in my control. So, logically I should have been driving at slower speeds wherein I could brake well in time in such a situation and control my vehicle.

Penalty of not renewing insurance: Rs.1000
Penalty when you are not holding a valid insurance and the vehicle driven by you gets into a fatal accident: well! you already are paying the price.

I would urge you to be the moral support of your father.
Dont contemplate on loopholes like seat belt not worn; wherein the affected party could very well counter-argue that the car was ill-maintained, the owner did not even bothered for maintaining an insurance, so in all probability the deceased's seat belt must have malfunctioned etc. Such arguments barely hold any weight because these had been extensively explored by every attorney in front of the magistrate on daily basis.

Your best bet would be:
1. To hire a good lawyer(the one who dont paint a false picture of zooming you out of the case, but the one who do the correct SWOT analysis)

2. As GTO suggests, look for a commmon friend/relative who can intermediate to an amicable solution. Putting arguments like deceased not wearing a seat belt would only offend/aggravate the deceased's kin and they would fight case more strongly diminishing chances of a settlement.

3. Most importantly, take care of your dad. Any damage to his health due to over-thinking/saddening is much more concerning than paying any financial figure. This case would take years, keep patience and support your family, you shall surely sail through this tough time. A cousin filed a case after closely escaping death from a head on collision with Haryana Roadways bus, its been 5 yrs(and counting) and the court is yet to conclude the monetary compensation.

All the best!
Grr7 is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2015, 14:12   #45
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 225
Thanked: 211 Times
Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyman View Post
Agreed. So who is responsible for this accident? My father was driving sedately and a truck suddenly changed lane and to avoid collision my father swerved and fell off the highway. If the driver tries his best to avoid collision, is he responsible for the accident?

Not renewing insurance is a fault. So whats the penalty for this as per law? Moreover unless the driver fault is proven there is no liability on the driver or owner of the vehicle.
Chevyman, please don't take any of the comments here as personal criticism of you or your father.

Fortunately or Unfortunately all the liability involved with a car crash rests with the driver and owner of the vehicle, there is no point in getting worked up over that - it is the way it is.

I suggest you find a competent lawyer and discuss the case with him, you will get very little in terms of legal advise on the forum. We will all try to advise you with logic and experience we have, but it may not translate to the reality of court.

I second Grr7, please focus on taking care of your father. The mental torture (And I'm not sure of he has any injuries from the accident) of the entire incident will take a huge toll on him. In all reality the case will take a long time to work it's way through the court. So dig in and be prepared for the long haul.
VellVector is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are Insurance claims from the passenger covered in 3rd party policies? Sudhindra Indian Car Loans & Insurance 19 26th May 2014 11:59
Bank NOC expired, want to transfer car. Now what? frozen Heat The Indian Car Scene 21 26th January 2014 20:26
Transfering Car Ownership with Expired Insurance deesapa Indian Car Loans & Insurance 17 15th November 2011 22:07
RC Book expired madbullram Shifting gears 4 6th February 2008 21:21
Comprehensive Insurance Expired ~ H O N D A ~ Indian Car Loans & Insurance 3 8th September 2006 14:28


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 23:33.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks