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Old 17th March 2015, 15:32   #46
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Is there not a grace period of 15 days allowed to renew the policy. I think it is 15 days from date of expiry.
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Old 17th March 2015, 16:15   #47
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by chevyman View Post
Agreed. So who is responsible for this accident? My father was driving sedately and a truck suddenly changed lane and to avoid collision my father swerved and fell off the highway. If the driver tries his best to avoid collision, is he responsible for the accident?

Not renewing insurance is a fault. So whats the penalty for this as per law? Moreover unless the driver fault is proven there is no liability on the driver or owner of the vehicle.
I went through the whole thread and I must say most Bhpian's are advising you with your interest in mind. But, most of your replies have been questions regarding who is at fault and why is your good natured father being singled out.

I am no legal expert but I will tell you this, while you may feel this is gross injustice to your father and your family. Please empathize with deceased person's family and think if you were that person's son, how would you have felt? Doesn't matter if you got a fat payout from govt, insurance and a plum govt job. You still lost someone, no amount of money can get him back.

My request to you would be to not look for opportunities to wriggle out of the situation. Empathize with the deceased's family, the fact that they have got money and a job shouldn't concern you.

I am sure the legal formalities will go on until time both parties get on a common ground for an out of court settlement. Since you are already ready, you need to wait till they are ready. It may not happen very soon. This is the best way in this case, considering your father and the deceased were working together there will be common friends who can mediate and get this matter resolved. First, You need to find a level headed and unbiased person for that.

Request your father to not lose hope. Its good that you have shouldered his burden now. You too need to keep your cool and approach his calmly.

Last edited by mac187 : 17th March 2015 at 16:16.
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Old 17th March 2015, 17:16   #48
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

If both of them were on official duty the Government pays the compensation. Please check if the personal vehicle was taken on official tour with valid approvals? If yes it shall be deemed to have been hired and the owner shall have to pay for the compensation in case of the expired insurance. The compensation shall be for both your father and the deceased. In no way can the driver be held responsible unless the following are proved:
1. He had intent to harm the deceased.
2. He was driving in a rash and negligent manner knowing that his actions may cause hurt.
3. The police report regarding the accident proves that the vehicle was mechanically sound and no fault can be attributed to any cause other than human negligence for the accident.
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Old 17th March 2015, 18:17   #49
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Is there any witness to the accident?
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Old 17th March 2015, 19:03   #50
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

From the above messages, it looks like we need to be extremely careful while giving lift to colleagues (despite having a valid insurance). Is it correct?
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Old 17th March 2015, 19:19   #51
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by damanshaheed View Post
Is there any witness to the accident?
No but they have prepared some false witnesses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiranknair View Post
From the above messages, it looks like we need to be extremely careful while giving lift to colleagues (despite having a valid insurance). Is it correct?
Depends on the person and his family. Some people are greedy and opportunists. On humanitarian grounds we definitely want to compensate based on our resources and means but when the other party systematically targets you and employs extortion tactics it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. But if you have a valid insurance, vehicle owner has nothing to worry about because the claim will be directed at them and their lawyer will handle it.
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Old 17th March 2015, 19:28   #52
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

A question that is coming to my mind is that even if a car has valid insurance, how does it work out for the passengers? As far as I know only driver cover is mandatory at some odd 25/100 bucks as premium. To cover the other passengers in the car is not mandatory and therefore even if the car had a valid insurance, there would not have been any cover for his father's friend.

So, is the claim being made as if his father's friend is 3rd Party in this case?

Experts may correct me if I am wrong.

Also, in general have always wondered how much does the basic 3rd party liability cover in case for example a pedestrian's life is lost due to one's car. How does that work out and if there would be any amount that owner will have to shell out as compensation?
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Old 17th March 2015, 19:44   #53
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by Rodie09 View Post
A question that is coming to my mind is that even if a car has valid insurance, how does it work out for the passengers? As far as I know only driver cover is mandatory at some odd 25/100 bucks as premium. To cover the other passengers in the car is not mandatory and therefore even if the car had a valid insurance, there would not have been any cover for his father's friend.

So, is the claim being made as if his father's friend is 3rd Party in this case?

Experts may correct me if I am wrong.

Also, in general have always wondered how much does the basic 3rd party liability cover in case for example a pedestrian's life is lost due to one's car. How does that work out and if there would be any amount that owner will have to shell out as compensation?
In case of third party, the compensation is paid to the pedestrian or the other party involved but not to the own vehicle. The deceased can be a third party in this case and so will be the occupants if the cover is comprehensive.

Due to the vicarious liability of the state, it is as a rule forbidden to ferry private persons in official vehicles. Similarly, ferrying ones family without approval in the official vehicle is also deemed to be a misconduct not because its unethical or anything but for the reason that in case of an accident the Government is liable to pay compensation for the people travelling in its vehicle and being driven by the driver ( an extention of the state itself.).
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Old 18th March 2015, 08:33   #54
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Not taking away anything from your family and the deceased family, but being very blunt and realistic here. These cases are very common and are tried out day in day out in the court rooms -

All you need is time and patience and off course a very good advocate.

1. Appoint a good advocate, if not already done by this time
2. Fight the case rigorously in the lower court and don't miss any dates/hearings in the initial period
3. Don't give any hint that you are ready for compensation right now as the purpose of appointing a good advocate would be defeated
4. Investigate how much insurance was received by the deceased family members by way of personal insurance, employment insurance and other compensation
5. Have any of the family member landing in the government job as compensation
6. Mentally be prepared to pay compensation, as even the judge at some point will ask the advocates if the parties are ready to settle out of court
7. Prolong the case, this will bring down the moral and compensation amount. No one wants to be in court room every month.
8. Be sympathetic to the deceased and his family while making a case, this will go a long way with the judge and the family

I am not an advocate, but all my close Friends are advocates -

Regards
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Old 18th March 2015, 09:39   #55
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

While I agree that the biggest mistake here is not renewing the insurance, it is a little scary that the family has filed a case against Chevyman's father.

If I took a lift in a friend's car and if we were in an accident, I would think it to be very unfair on the part of my family to file a case of 50Lakhs against the person who offered me a lift, particularly if there is the promise of a job and the goverment paying for the loss.

From now on, I'll think twice about offering a lift. And guys doing carpools, please take a note
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Old 18th March 2015, 15:15   #56
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

I really feel very sorry for both the parties of this case. Even before learning driving, I was taught the importance of Insurance.

Also, this can happen to ANYONE, right? A chain of events led to this situation.
- A possible negligent owner in this case. It is even possible that some how the owner forgot to pay the insurance. Not all the time the insurance companies send out reminders. A very busy life at times can get anyone into such situations. I use Outlook to check emails at home and always set an annual reminder to pay up.
- The person who borrowed the car did not check for validity of papers here. In reality, a very few may actually check before driving, especially if its a vehicle within the family. If I had to borrow similarly, I may not have checked too. But if I had to borrow from a friend not well known or a family member of young age, like a college go-er, I may well check/suspect/clarify before using.
- Getting a lift in a car/bike, I am sure the people who check/suspect/ascertain for validity of papers is very remote. The co-passenger cannot be blamed at all. But in this case, the family should be courteous as it colleague of the deceased. Hope they are not being selfish(Cant comment any more as I don't know personally).

I often wonder why we cannot have some sort of ECS system(not a mandatory one) on our bank accounts to pay the 3rd party bit of amount every year and during time of renewal the comprehensive part of payment will be made consciously by the member. By such a system, a willing person can have 3rd party coverage all the time. A human error of forgetting and other causes will be eliminated.

Time and again I have always tried to educate friends and family to have valid insurance all the time and have cited many hypothetical examples, especially for those who ignore insurance for 2 wheeler. A rouge pedestrian come in your way unexpectedly and if his time is not right, a hit at speeds of 20-30kmph can cause serious injury/death.

Last edited by funkykar : 18th March 2015 at 15:27.
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Old 18th March 2015, 16:02   #57
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?



This is what the (out of station) road travel rules of our company states :

1) Avoid self driving

2) Reach notified single point of contact (SPOC) person of the company in case of any emergency

3) Avoid travel beyond 6.00 PM unless it becomes unavoidable, and in any case not beyond 8.00 PM.

4) Ensure the hired vehicle is in good condition

5) Ensure all passengers wear seat belts

6) Ensure the driver is not intoxicated, does not drive beyond 12 hours in a day, takes a break of 20 minutes every two hours of long travel, sticks to speed limits and does not allow unknown persons to board the vehicle.

Deviation from / not adhering to the above will be treated as misconduct and may attract disciplinary action.

So, the question taking our own car for outstation travel does not arise, and will amount to misconduct if we do. I was not very impressed with the rule before, but now it does not seem a bad idea.

From what I have understood, third party insurance covers:

a) Injury to person(s) on the road
b) Persons in another vehicle with which we have an impact
c) Passengers travelling in our car.

It does not cover the (owner)driver or any other person driving the car. In case of comprehensive policy, they will be covered, but not a paid driver. For him a separate rider and premium applies.

Last edited by Gansan : 18th March 2015 at 16:03.
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Old 19th March 2015, 07:27   #58
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopaneel View Post
From now on, I'll think twice about offering a lift. And guys doing carpools, please take a note
Correction: Any guys doing carpools and not having valid documents, please take a note. For others, insurance is there to protect.

If all our papers are in order and we are not violating any rules, all these would be settled by the insurance company. I guess the owner of the vehicle can be more sympathetic to the deceased in such cases since insurance company would take care of the financial part and he need not worry about protecting his family's interests.

However, those who try to touch the top speed of the vehicle on a highway are in turn making themselves a potential victim since insurance company could be exempted from the payment if it is proved to be negligent driving.

It is always good to check all the documents of all your vehicles once every month. You can even upload the 'valid till' dates online in cloud (eg: Google docs) so that you can check it even without actually going to each vehicle. I'm tracking the info for all the vehicles in my family in an excel and it is easy to identify which ones need attention every month, even if I'm in a different city.
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Old 19th March 2015, 10:38   #59
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Correction: Any guys doing carpools and not having valid documents, please take a note. For others, insurance is there to protect.
Actually no - it kills the whole carpool thing for me atleast.

Suppose by mistake I happen to end up jumping a traffic light - say it was yellow, but the bus in front of me stopped at the red light itself to pick up passengers (true story) leaving my vehicle in the intersection as the light turns red. And someone else T-bones my car, killing my co-passenger.

The insurance company reviews the CCTV footage (very widely available these days) and uses it as evidence to cancel the insurance. Now its my headache.

I'm not recommending jumping traffic lights or anything, just highlighting that even in the case of mistakes, the liability among the driver from his car-poolers will be far too high. I'd rather spend 2-3k per month extra and avoid the whole headache.
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Old 19th March 2015, 11:31   #60
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Civil suits go nowhere unless one party gives up. I have civil suits in the family going on since the 90s. Even though the judgment was given in our favour 3 times, the other side appealed it every time and it keeps on going. I have come to understand that judgment against you in a civil suit means zilch as long as you can keep paying your lawyer. I am familiar with many civil cases in immediate family that ended, and every one of them ended because one side gave up due to death or finance or despair. Civil suits are nothing but a game of attrition.
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