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Old 19th March 2015, 11:51   #61
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Since our people are getting greedier by the day, I have a few simple thumb rules for myself when driving
1) No giving lift, to anyone, even if that person is in dire need or distress
2) No stopping to help stranded people on the way or even accident victims
3) Ensuring that all my documents are in order and current and vehicle is serviced
4) Driving within speed limits and ensuring all laws and regulations are met

I know the above sounds harsh and inhuman, but its the best for me, and ensures I don't have any additional headaches from two legged animals. As for stranded motorists or accident victims I will definitely place a call to the toll free helpline or ambulance to come and help, but I will not stop
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Old 19th March 2015, 12:52   #62
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Since our people are getting greedier by the day, I have a few simple thumb rules for myself when driving
1) No giving lift, to anyone, even if that person is in dire need or distress
2) No stopping to help stranded people on the way or even accident victims
3) Ensuring that all my documents are in order and current and vehicle is serviced
4) Driving within speed limits and ensuring all laws and regulations are met

I know the above sounds harsh and inhuman, but its the best for me, and ensures I don't have any additional headaches from two legged animals. As for stranded motorists or accident victims I will definitely place a call to the toll free helpline or ambulance to come and help, but I will not stop
Its really OFF TOPIC, but I think Thumb Rule 1 & 2 are crazy. Its inhuman to not help in case someone is in Dire need or Distress. The Nirbhaya case also had 2 people in distress lying on the road, without anyone bothering to stop to help. If I or any of my loved ones was lying injured on the road, I would sure hope that people had the humanity to stop and help. Any delay in rendering help to an injured person could result in him losing his life. I'm sure you'd agree.

Rules 3 & 4 are mandatory and not Thumb rules. As you surely know, you are legally obliged to follow all traffic rules and keep all documents in order.

As regards your comments about folks being "Greedy" these days. In this specific case, I disagree. The family of the deceased has lost their loved one, and while no monetary compensation can suffice, they are entitled to it. Having a Valid Insurance is a legal requirement.
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Old 19th March 2015, 13:25   #63
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Since our people are getting greedier by the day, I have a few simple thumb rules for myself when driving
1) No giving lift, to anyone, even if that person is in dire need or distress
2) No stopping to help stranded people on the way or even accident victims
With due respect to you Sir, we need to get rid of these two rules if we actually are serious about saving "Humanity" on the face of Earth.

I do agree that giving lift to any Tom, Dick or Harry is not a good idea but I certainly stop and will stop whereever I see some one is in dire need of help.
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Old 19th March 2015, 15:00   #64
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Since our people are getting greedier by the day, I have a few simple thumb rules for myself when driving
1) No giving lift, to anyone, even if that person is in dire need or distress
2) No stopping to help stranded people on the way or even accident victims

As for stranded motorists or accident victims I will definitely place a call to the toll free helpline or ambulance to come and help, but I will not stop
I partially see your logic - makes a lot of sense - its a self-preservation strategy even though I don't believe in it. However, if you were to get a dashcam tomorrow, would you consider changing your point of view?
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Old 19th March 2015, 18:37   #65
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Personal accident cover is typically a few lacs for driver and each co-passenger as a part of the third party insurance.

I believe insurance co will not pay compensation higher than personal accident cover even if vehicle was with valid insurance.

I think OP can find out what was the PA cover in the expired policy and offer that as the compensation on moral grounds.

Personally, I think it is not fair to demand exorbitant amount in compensation as:
1. Lift was offered in goodwill and there was no obligation on OP's father's part to offer the lift
2. Also there was no obligation on BIL's part to offer car to OP's father, that was also offered in goodwill
3. Nobody took specific permission from BIL whether deceased person was allowed to seat and travel in his car
4. If BIL had not renewed his car insurance, he may have to pay penalty to state for his fault, but not this type of huge amount

Sorry for the different note, however I think many of the members are getting carried over in putting fault on OP's father and BIL.

Just another point, how many of us ask for insurance papers of vehicle when we take a cab or auto or a bus.

Regards,

JLS

Last edited by JLS : 19th March 2015 at 18:57. Reason: edited for readability
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Old 20th March 2015, 09:20   #66
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Its really OFF TOPIC, but I think Thumb Rule 1 & 2 are crazy. Its inhuman to not help in case someone is in Dire need or Distress. The Nirbhaya case also had 2 people in distress lying on the road, without anyone bothering to stop to help.


As regards your comments about folks being "Greedy" these days. In this specific case, I disagree. The family of the deceased has lost their loved one, and while no monetary compensation can suffice, they are entitled to it. Having a Valid Insurance is a legal requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine_Roars View Post
With due respect to you Sir, we need to get rid of these two rules if we actually are serious about saving "Humanity" on the face of Earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
I partially see your logic - makes a lot of sense - its a self-preservation strategy even though I don't believe in it. However, if you were to get a dashcam tomorrow, would you consider changing your point of view?
I agree its self preservation and preservation of your family and loved ones.

I had met with an accident several years bike and was lying on the road, my bike hitting a stone left by a trucker on the old NH4 bleeding from my knees and people passing by, no one even bothered to stop and help me up, and some people pointing and commenting. Please expect this reality in India, its only rare if some one comes forward to help you.
And with so many horror stories of the the villagers, police and victim's family accusing the good Samaritan of causing the accident and making him/her pay up, its only natural not to be bothered about an accident victim.
Regarding the Nirbhaya case or the likes please watch movies like NH10 and see what happens to people who try and help others in distress. I for sure will not want to spend a night running away from murderous villagers.

Dashcam as a proof works in civilized countries where the law is respected not in India where the police are corrupt and the judiciary slow.
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Old 20th March 2015, 12:03   #67
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I agree its self preservation and preservation of your family and loved ones.

I had met with an accident several years bike and was lying on the road, my bike hitting a stone left by a trucker on the old NH4 bleeding from my knees and people passing by, no one even bothered to stop and help me up, and some people pointing and commenting. Please expect this reality in India, its only rare if some one comes forward to help you.
And with so many horror stories of the the villagers, police and victim's family accusing the good Samaritan of causing the accident and making him/her pay up, its only natural not to be bothered about an accident victim.
Regarding the Nirbhaya case or the likes please watch movies like NH10 and see what happens to people who try and help others in distress. I for sure will not want to spend a night running away from murderous villagers.

Dashcam as a proof works in civilized countries where the law is respected not in India where the police are corrupt and the judiciary slow.
We're talking about helping people in distress, not interfering in a fight. In NH10, the hero gets into an ego trip and they become witnesses to a murder, hence the ordeal. Whats the relevance of this in the current discussion?

Since you are a Senior BHP'ian I really thought I should point out how your thumb rules could lead to some injured person losing his life.

Anyways, I guess we're digressing from the original topic of this thread.
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Old 20th March 2015, 13:51   #68
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
We're talking about helping people in distress, not interfering in a fight. In NH10, the hero gets into an ego trip and they become witnesses to a murder, hence the ordeal. Whats the relevance of this in the current discussion?

Since you are a Senior BHP'ian I really thought I should point out how your thumb rules could lead to some injured person losing his life.

Anyways, I guess we're digressing from the original topic of this thread.
Helping people will also mean making phone calls to ambulances and police authorities. Sorry if you feel that carrying people in your car is being a helpful person, without right medical knowledge you may end up killing or maiming the injured. Also your car is not an ambulance.
Besides I said earlier, those are rules I follow to keep myself and my family safe, I have not implied that everyone needs to follow the same. Even in advanced countries helpers call emergency services, not pick up injured from roads, that will only lead to litigation and the injured parties suing them.
Enough of off topic from my end, coming back to this unfortunate situation, the issue is lack of valid insurance, no excuses for that and secondly giving lift to people even close friends or colleagues. Accidents can happen anywhere and anytime, and if friends or work mates families are going to sue the car owner then it becomes difficult to give lifts to people. The worst is the government office stopping the pension and retirement benefits until the case clears.
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Old 20th March 2015, 14:25   #69
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Question - I'm pretty sure the deceased had personal / life insurance? I'm also sure they've already filed a claim on that and - considering the timeline - his family should've already received the payment. You & your lawyer need to investigate on this.
Hi GTO. As per law, it is perfectly legal to get more than one compensation via insurance in case of death. There is no limitation here. If he had any number of personal life insurance + group insurance + accidental death insurance. He can still claim on all of them. And still go ahead with compensation from Accident tribunal. So investigating into how much compensation his family got from other sources is not going to help in anyway.

Arvind
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Old 20th March 2015, 15:32   #70
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by Naetik30 View Post
Hi GTO. As per law, it is perfectly legal to get more than one compensation via insurance in case of death. There is no limitation here. If he had any number of personal life insurance + group insurance + accidental death insurance. He can still claim on all of them. And still go ahead with compensation from Accident tribunal. So investigating into how much compensation his family got from other sources is not going to help in anyway.

Arvind

Not true. We are talking about compensation and not life-insurance. Life-insurance, there is no limit. The compensation on the other hand, would be based on earning potential of the deceased and how much financial damage the family would face due to the lost life. If the impacted family is already well compensated by other means, the possibility of the judge approving lesser compensation from chevyman's father+BIL increases.

Last edited by SDP : 20th March 2015 at 15:34.
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Old 20th March 2015, 23:10   #71
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Things I follow. For years.
1. Always have a valid insurance
2. Never lend any of my rides
3. Never borrow any
4. Never give a lift on two wheels
5. Always drive much slower than I can
6. Always believe in reaching home safe.
7. Always see to it what I am driving or riding is in good shape.
8. Always accept what my instincts and body says, If I am tired (or the driver seems tired) pull up at a safe place. sometimes even take a nap, if not wash up take a break and continue.

This is what could happen to anyone.
As always, try to diffuse the situation at the earliest.

This is just a general rule to follow with how our system works in most places.

All the best chevyman.
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Old 21st March 2015, 00:40   #72
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

Sorry to hear about the incident and the ordeal. Remember, it's the legal process at work. Look at it from that angle only to reduce your stress levels.

Having owned a M800 5 speed car for four years I can confirm it has seat belts for the front seats.

Also whatever limited knowledge I have about the motor vehicle insurance and law, the insurance is a contract between the owner and the insurance company, the first and second party. Anyone else is a third party - driver, co passenger, pedestrian, driver or occupant of another vehicle. In case they suffer due to the vehicle insured, they can claim compensation from the owner - which is paid by the insurance company.

In your case since the insurance had expired already, the above discussion only holds academic value. The primary liability to pay compensation lies with the owner all the time.

Also I don't think there is a grace period to renew your policy if expired.
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Old 21st March 2015, 08:45   #73
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post


Also I don't think there is a grace period to renew your policy if expired.
I think the grace period being referred to is the time period within which if you renew your insurance you dont have to get the vehicle physically inspected at the insurer. Apart from that, the policy and coverage lapses on the date and time mentioned in the policy document.
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Old 22nd March 2015, 16:28   #74
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Default Re: Co-passenger dies, car insurance expired - Advice?

If I'm not mistaken, car insurance contract says that the vehicle should not be used for commercial purposes. Now in the case of carpooling, the insurance company lawyer might say that the owner/driver was running his car commercially. These insurance companies can go to any extent to refuse insurance payout.

It becomes our headache - courts etc - to disprove that. Carpooling is out for me.
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Old 22nd March 2015, 17:03   #75
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It wouldn't be a problem here since the co passenger and the driver were office colleagues and were travelling together for the same work.

Only if the insurance company had been in the picture...
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