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View Poll Results: What action will encourage / induce / force people to follow traffic rules?
New laws, enforcement, police presence, traffic cameras and heavier fines 200 74.91%
Public activism 55 20.60%
Better driver training before as well as after issuing licenses 146 54.68%
Spreading the message of how to drive safe through newspaper ads / other media 37 13.86%
Nothing can help - people will carry on like this indefinitely 26 9.74%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 267. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 8th April 2015, 13:01   #16
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

Oh boy another thread about traffic rules. However, this problem is not solvable because we are attacking the wrong problem.
There is no respect for traffic laws because there is no respect for laws, and that usually happens, when the enforcement is selective, and the laws are made for a different purpose rather than their intention.

The places where traffic laws are a joke are usually places where other laws are also a joke. you cannot just fix traffic laws. you have to fix everything.

Moreover, when you start enforcing laws from a revenue generation standpoint, they lose their sanctity.

For example, a rickshaw can wait whole day blocking the whole road as he cannot be fined 200rs for no parking. However a car parked for 5 minutes will be towed away. Reason? Its a revenue generation.
Why as a citizen I should respect no parking law when I see pushcarts parked the whole day, and I cannot park my car next to them. I am not blocking any additional traffic.
The guy who comes to tow is wearing a uniform, but in the end, with his selective enforcement, he is a just an agent of opression. So I lose my respect for him completely. This is how we start going down the slippery slope.

And this is why not just traffic, but all kinds of laws here are suggestions. The bachelors in your apartment complex are threatened with eviction if they make the slightest noise, but the guy next door can have a whole night loudspeaker blaring religious ceremony. The marriage palace can burst crackers till 2am in the night.

So looking at some fix for traffic laws is simply foolhardy. Respect has to be earned. The laws in our country(thanks to the selective and shoddy enforcement) have not earned that respect. When they earn that respect, we will follow them.
So its not really about red light jumping, or over-speeding etc., Its about creating an ecosystem which is just and fair. When you go selective, its all pointless.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 8th April 2015 at 13:03.
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Old 8th April 2015, 16:32   #17
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

Honestly - higher fines, better and fair monitoring systems, and better education.
Today, a person driving an INR 10,00,000 wouldn't think twice if he had to pay INR 100 for breaking a light, or parking where he wishes. Increase the number to 5,000 and suddenly he will think twice.
I've repeatedly noticed that in our system - it is basically a power play where everyone thinks they can get away with anything. However, if there is a fair and transparent manner to catch offender, along with stringent rules and penalties - they will automatically fall in line.

Why do you think we do not litter when we are in another country? Because we do not want to mess with their laws and pay a huge fine. I got fined $400 (INR 16K at that time) for being 15mph over the speed limit in CT, USA for which I had to pay directly to court using a DD/Cashier's cheque. The inconvenience of running around to get the payment made, as well as the amount involved - made me vow to be more careful in the future.

Similarly, such a system where cops are given technology such as CCTVs, Speed Cameras, etc. to catch offenders, who are in turn fined heavily, will make traffic more disciplined. The heavier fines will help pay for the implementation of this system. This can be further built upon by giving the cop a % of the fine (to reduce corruption. This way, even if you want to bribe the cop - you would need to shell out over and above what he would earn otherwise) provided he has proof of you committing the error. Making it inconvenient for the offender to pay the penalty will just help - how many would want to waste time going to court, shell out lots of $$$, just because they broke the light 30 seconds before it turned green?

Additionally, improve the facilities given to policemen. Better vehicles, financial aid, incentives, etc. will help them become more efficient as well, and also reduce bribery. The change will have to take place at a grass root level, with the support of the bigwig politicos.

With reduced corruption, increased fines - the govt. will have a lot more money in its kitty to start investing in technology and better infrastructure.

PS: Just the other night, at Worli Seaface signal (around 11PM), I saw cops stop an E Class, and an S350 for breaking the light. Now those are cops I respect!

Last edited by lamborghini : 8th April 2015 at 16:39.
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Old 8th April 2015, 17:55   #18
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

The root cause for most of the problems in India are Corruption & Reservation (wrong implementation).

Reservation:
Firstly, I support reservation but only for the people who truly deserve it & not others.
Secondly, incompetence can't (& shouldn't) be overruled by reservation. Money is the problem, solve that. Don't create a new one by feeding an incompetent worker out to perform critical tasks.
Reservation concerns our problem because our law makers & law enforcers consist of above mentioned people which constitute a major reason for our problems & also prove to be the root cause for next cause, Corruption.

Corruption:
Corruption by Power - Law should be uniform for all citizens. When Law Makers/Enforcers are incompetent & at the mercy of a corrupt individual, I can't hope for fairness.
Corruption by Money - This for the rest of the people without power who know that our laws are second to Law Enforcer's monetary demands & so supplies are adequately provided.

Temporary solutions would be to:
1> Implement the existing laws efficiently & half the problem is solved. Illegal parkings/constructions, encroachments, haphazard traffic signal management etc.
2> Better/Stricter License management
3> A strong Motor Vehicle Act which includes all segments & addresses each problem area
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Old 8th April 2015, 18:09   #19
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Why is it that the traffic police enforced the rules dealing with property/revenue with such enthusiasm but turn a blind eye towards rules dealing with life safety?

Red light jumping, weaving in and out of lanes, speeding, parking anywhere on the road, headlights aimed at eyes etc are easily overlooked, however the police is mighty efficient in checking the PUC/NOC/permits etc
Very True, Today on my way back I could see several 100 bikes without helmets. Cars, Autos, bikes driving very rashly, again cop doesn't care.

All they do is check for PUC, My colleague got caught because his number plate had a small dealership sticker on it. he did not even know about that sticker.

One thing I have noticed, People who follow the rules seem to be punished the most.

I don't see any improvements here, With this summer heat things have gone from bad to mad!

Last edited by Captain Slow : 8th April 2015 at 18:12.
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Old 8th April 2015, 18:24   #20
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

I would have chosen the first option but I don't think new laws are required. Enforcement of existing laws is what is required. And the enforcement has to be widespread. Putting up speed traps or DUI checks at specific spots will not solve anything. People will just avoid those areas or slow down in those zones. There has to be a fear of getting caught doing anything wrong anywhere. That can be achieved only be constant patrolling.

Spare the rod and spoil the child.
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Old 8th April 2015, 18:35   #21
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
I would have chosen the first option but I don't think new laws are required. Enforcement of existing laws is what is required. And the enforcement has to be widespread. Putting up speed traps or DUI checks at specific spots will not solve anything. People will just avoid those areas or slow down in those zones. There has to be a fear of getting caught doing anything wrong anywhere. That can be achieved only be constant patrolling.

Spare the rod and spoil the child.
Speaking of DUI check points - I have to say this is a perfect example of how stringent policing + stringent penalty have impacted drinking and driving, at least in Mumbai.
Firstly, the cops here have their main check points for DUI, but also every now and then change their locations or set up additional points. Secondly, the penalty is that one can go to jail for a night - which coupled with the random check points has already deterred a few people.
Those who aren't deterred, and try such antics regularly typically get caught at some point or have a close experience. Because of the stringent stand against DUI, cops use this as an excuse to accept jacked up bribes to the tune of INR 10-15K (depending on your negotiation skills).
As a result, I know many people who used to brag of their excellent drinking and driving skills, who now use a taxi or public transport for such excursions.
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Old 8th April 2015, 18:49   #22
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

It's bad enough when the uneducated/unaware class drives bad. What I find intolerable is the when educated traffic-rules-aware guy drives like an ape.

I was inside our office campus, which is huge by the way, trying to cross a road that leads to the basement parking. I see a car coming up and the guy is meddling with his phone while moving slowly so I start walking. Just then this guy speeds up, honks, and zooms past missing me by inches. Suddenly realized he was too important to let a pedestrian pass? I don't know.

Being in the typical Bangalore IT labourer environment, I'm aware it's very likely anyone who has grown enough to own a sedan would have had a chance to drive/travel abroad at least once. The important question is - when these characters can drive/behave disciplined and courteous outside the country, surely awareness is not the problem. So what makes these guys act simian on Indian soil?

As to the question in the OP, I think the fundamental problem is with our value system (or complete lack of it) and the 'jaanta hai mai koun hoo' attitude towards law. This is the first thing that needs to change. Laws and enforcement can only do so much.
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Old 8th April 2015, 18:56   #23
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

I would suggest that this discipline of Road Mannerisms should be started and taught at schools as well.

Catch'em young should be the motto.

I have experienced this personally when my son questioned me about crossing the signal when the light had just turned Red. Surely was quite embarrassed to give him a lame excuse at that time.
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Old 8th April 2015, 19:50   #24
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

I would say make road safety, driving etiquette and manners a subject in school board exams across the country. Teach kids of today and hope to see some change tomorrow.
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Old 8th April 2015, 19:53   #25
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Laws if any are to be enforced without any bias. However in a country like ours, where the governing forces themselves abuse the law, how do you expect the common man to follow! Fines should be applicable to all, irrespective of who they are. Enforcement and penalizing should be round the clock, rather than the checks you see normally during the end of the month; reasons obvious!!
I feel it's been a ritualistic mode for generation of revenue, rather than enforcing the law. We can only hope this mindset changes, laws evolve to ensure safer travel by roads. Until then each one to its own. Drive safe and pray others do too so, to ensure a long, smooth and pleasurable drive😅
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Old 8th April 2015, 20:35   #26
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

Sorry for being a Pessimist over here, but I do not foresee the situation becoming any better at least for the next 10-15 years.

Higher Fines, Stricter Laws --> Increase in Corruption. Problem being solved today with a 100 Rs. Note will need 500 Rs. tomorrow and will be given. Trust Me!

Public Activism --> Won't happen. A normal middle class person does not want to deal with hooligans (Gundas & big-shots & road-side rickshawallas). Take into account the recent cases of Nisham and one more just yesterday of an MP's Cousin running an SUV over a School Director. The famous case of Salman Khan is another example. Not a single eye-witness.

Better Driving Training --> Again going back to Increase in corruption. Just imagine the number of driving licenses and also the different type of driving licenses being issued. How do you expect the poor truck-drivers and other public transport drivers to undergo these trainings and then obey them and still reach their destinations on time. (Do their work on time)

Spreading the message --> It's been happening since ages without any effect. Don't know how much more or what sources to utilize to spread the message.
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Old 8th April 2015, 21:40   #27
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

To most Indians, any machine that moves is like a Pearl Necklace around a Monkey's neck!
They simply can't control their emotions when they get one! Nothing is going to stop them from behaving like Monkeys. Its in the Genes. Only if scientists come up with something that makes it possible to change our genes like a Gene Vaccine can a change be expected. Until then nothing will change, its only going to get worse.
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Old 9th April 2015, 08:58   #28
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

There is no way out of this rut. This is a unique country and we thrive in chaos. As some one said it is in our genes. The ones that want change is a small minority. The rest do not care. The specimen that become police, lawyers, politicians are from the same pool. There is no urge to do the right thing and everyone wants to thrive in chaos and corruption.

Even after my life time and for many many years to come I do not think there will be any change. Not only about traffic rules, there are many aspects life that is totally rotten in our country which will not change purely because it is a Indian thing.

Bash me for saying this, but people wanting change is not even 1% and that mass cannot make the change happen. Also the high population dilutes things, we cant focus on change. Think of educating more than a billion people. Is this even feasible?

I have put this point earlier as well. Why should cops be allowed to collect fines? Money in the hands of cops allows for corruption and bending/breaking laws. Cops should only give fine slips, impound vehicles. Fine should be paid in courts/municipal offices/banks something like that. Having the right addresses in the database will help to do this.

Also instead for monetary fines law should enforce community service or attending corrective class room sessions on traffic rules etc. Taking time off from work would be big deal for people and will start to behave. Money is the easiest thing today in society that people can chuck on police and drive away.

Last edited by LandCruiser : 9th April 2015 at 09:13.
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Old 9th April 2015, 09:32   #29
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

Change… we talk about it all the time, but how many of us actually take time and think about it seriously. I think that change has to start for within, I change myself and ensure that I remain that way. Only and I emphasis that only if each person starts thinks that way there will be a true change for the better. the roads are becoming a death trap for its users every day, has per the statistics more people between the age group of 20 and 35 years die more on the road then all the others causes put together. We have to awaken ourselves first without which the government nor the system nor the law will do anything. We as the say COMMON MAN should starting fighting for ourselves, for our children, for our future, for our life, only and only then there will be a change. Then again this is my view……
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Old 9th April 2015, 09:44   #30
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Default Re: Following traffic rules: What action will encourage / induce / force people to do it?

Friends,

This is just an observation that Indians have by nature highly intellectual and adoptive personalities.

If you come in contact with other nations ( which I have ) we spend most of the time adjusting and " jugaad" with our present situation

Whereas, the other nationals fight to improve the situations.

Hence no amount of policing will change us as we will always find loopholes.

"We are blessed by God"

The only solution is that

a) traffic cops should not be allowed to cut challans nor should they be allowed to confesticate licences.

b) all vehicles should by default be asked to install a chip in which the details of the owner and address is saved

c) cops and traffic signals should have a device which will capture the chip if the traffic rule is broken

d) A challan would be send by post to the address of the defaulter and after certain number of challans his licence may be suspended or revoked or cancelled

As per PM Modi the only way to reduce corruption and get results is to minimize human intervention.

The above minimizes human intervention and 1 week of fine will compensate the expenses incurred by Government PAN India

Rgds,

Deepak
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