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Old 20th April 2015, 20:15   #16
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Though it seems interesting, I doubt if it would work. Just to give an example, I am sure similar instances happen across the country. There is a junction near my house, where the police encourage the motorist to use the opposite lane to clear traffic at peak hours. Now it is taken for granted that this can be used any time a motorists(even cars) use the opposite lane and wait at the signal in front, blocking the oncoming traffic. If you were unfortunate to use the opposite lane, and stare at the motorist on your lane, then they would look at you as if you denied their right to the road!! Now the police there instructs the first few vehicles to maintain lane discipline, and then gives up. Then there are motorist for whom other road users need to make way, it does not matter if you have right of way, or you were ahead. You better move if you dont want dents on your vehicle.

Given this attitude, this might be disabled by the police themselves "in the interest of public safety". Else it would have been easier to use volunteers, rsp, home guards, road wardens, in conjunction with strict enforcement and penalties.
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Old 20th April 2015, 21:10   #17
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

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Originally Posted by raghu.t.k View Post
Though it seems interesting, I doubt if it would work. Just to give an example, I am sure similar instances happen across the country. There is a junction near my house, where the police encourage the motorist to use the opposite lane to clear traffic at peak hours. Now it is taken for granted that this can be used any time a motorists(even cars) use the opposite lane and wait at the signal in front, blocking the oncoming traffic. If you were unfortunate to use the opposite lane, and stare at the motorist on your lane, then they would look at you as if you denied their right to the road!! Now the police there instructs the first few vehicles to maintain lane discipline, and then gives up. Then there are motorist for whom other road users need to make way, it does not matter if you have right of way, or you were ahead. You better move if you dont want dents on your vehicle.

Given this attitude, this might be disabled by the police themselves "in the interest of public safety". Else it would have been easier to use volunteers, rsp, home guards, road wardens, in conjunction with strict enforcement and penalties.
This is practiced in many cities. I think this is very wrong and dangerous practice.

Wrong side means WRONG side.

I have faced situation where I am on the correct ride and I have to turn right, when a vehicle on the wrong side wants to go straight. You know what happens next
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Old 21st April 2015, 03:12   #18
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Though I would strongly advocate using such measures in our country, at least in Bengaluru, I feel the sense of traffic is slightly better.

I have personally witnessed people waiting at traffic signals patiently even around 11 PM!!
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Old 21st April 2015, 04:02   #19
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

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Over several years we have discussed the problem of traffic management and accidents in India but have never really found a true solution.
Do you think this will work? Will this help change habits? If not everywhere may be deploy this solution at major intersections?
These measures are more appropriate for security, and perhaps not for road safety. One practical approach is to start with schools and children. We have to educate our masses to follow rules near schools so that there is hope for the next generation. The zebra crossing near schools are a joke. Under age school kids are riding themselves to school on scooters and bikes. I have seen kids riding to school with parent in the pillion, and the parent rides back the bike after the kid gets off. Parents with no helmets (in cities with the rule). Breaking rules should be a matter of shame and not pride. Breaking rules at such a young age is setting up an entire new generation who will continue to break rules in bigger ways. Schools should promote following rules. If a rule does not make sense, initiatives to promote changing of rules should be encouraged. Breaking a rule should never be an option. These seemingly simple things play a key role in shaping a modern society. I am always amazed at how mad kids in the US get when they see their parents pull off a seemingly minor traffic infraction. I once drove around a bump on an empty street inside a gated community, my son was quick to tell me "the bump is there to slow you down - you just drove over a solid line, are you sure you are allowed to do that? If you do not like the bump there, you should complain to the community management" I had to quickly apologize, that I made an error in judgement.

As a good first step - people should not break rules in front of their kids, or in front of schools. (where they may end up programming the brains of the next generation to be immune to breaking rules). People seem to take Gandhiji's civil disobedience to heart even after the british have left us.
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Old 21st April 2015, 07:20   #20
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

These are clearly security barriers and are in place in high security areas like the Parliament. It was put there in the aftermath of the attack on parliament. Now vehicles have barcode stickers which are read and only when the picture matches these barriers open. Even then I have heard stories of these barriers getting stuck due to dust. This is one of the best dust free zones in India and imagine the situation in other localities!

Second, there are any number of videos where drivers in Europe have tried to overrun these with disastrous consequences. Imagine the situation in India where bikers refuse to wear helmets.
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Old 21st April 2015, 13:55   #21
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Default Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Not only will these be unsafe, I believe the proper coordination of such a system is next to impossible. Say a situation where there is an empty intersection with a red light, and an emergency vehicle approaching it at speed. What will it be able to do?The ambulance or fire engine will have to wait for very long because of the barrier.

Additionally, is this technology really reliable? One malfunction can bring the city to its knees. I use the DND daily, and every other day, the gold or the silver lane stops working because of technical glitches. DND earns crores of revenue each day, and has a dedicated team to fix such faults, and yet they face problems. Think about the glitches that can arise in a whole city.

Automated barrier systems are unreliable and have a limited life. I am certain there are many other downsides related to such a system.

Yes, in theory it has a lot of advantages, but in reality the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.
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Old 21st April 2015, 14:03   #22
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Default Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Physical barriers are not a solution for multiple reasons.

We have seen what happens to dividers in Bangalore. Two wheeler's start taking a shortcut first and then autos and so on. Even the metal barricades/road dividers preventing pedestrians from crossing at unsafe places are vandalized to make for a shortcut.

Enforcement of a rules, i.e. stop line means stop should be done. Not physically by policemen, but by using cameras and fining motorists who flaunt the rules. Somewhere in this forum, a member had mentioned that in Sweden learners are taught that driving is a privilege, not a right. This should be drilled into all our fellow motorists. Flaunt rules regularly and the privilege will be withdrawn!
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Old 21st April 2015, 14:27   #23
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Default Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Imagine one of these systems getting implemented in a city like Delhi. Now what will happen to the law abiding citizen who is trying to cross a signal when it is still green but due to heavy traffic it takes about 20-25 seconds to cross the signal (and this is a common phenomena on Delhi roads).

The result is here for every to see -
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Old 21st April 2015, 14:46   #24
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Default Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

I am not sure if this is ideal for a country like India.

First of all, this will work only if the road is of a fixed width and people dont drive outside the road. But in India, most of the roads have more width at an intersection. Not to forget that Ours is a country where people go off the road at the same speed they are approaching to get around a hump in the road.

If this is implemented, what you will find is the bikes driving on the foot path and coming to a halt in front of the barrier waiting to jump the signal effectively making the situation same as it is now.

I dont think we need such an expensive system to enforce traffic rule, just make the fines heftier (vehicle impound if necessary) and make the traffic police do their duty without taking bribe, thats all what we need. The driving habits will start changing gradually for good.

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Old 21st April 2015, 15:44   #25
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Red face Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

There was an attempt by an NGO an year back or so in Thane at one important & busy signal on the Ghodbunder Road i.e Tatvagyan vidyapith where they tried to instill discipline amongst the motorist by having some volunteers manage traffic. These volunteers tried to talk sense to the motorist who would come to a halt after the zebra crossing. They distributed pamphlets to educate people about traffic rules and regulations, one of the pamphlet was about fines too. The whole effort lasted for 4 days. Later the NGO submitted a report (one pager) where they said that discipline cannot be taught to motorist of any age, size or sex esp at signals. They even mentioned that they were threatened and assaulted by motorist whom they tried to educate.

Even if any mechanical barriers are installed, they would be out of operation within few weeks if not days. As long as the self respect for traffic rules does not come from within, motorists will continue to disrespect the rules and cops will not be able to do anything.
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Old 21st April 2015, 16:56   #26
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Default Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post

Of 10 who want to jump the signal, at least 4 would stop, only because I have stopped
I like it! I also follow your path! There has been many occasions, where I have been abused and honked for stopping at Red at night. But who cares, I follow my rules, the rules that are real! Where there are blinkers, I pass through caution!

The signal near Prestige Tech Park (JP Morgen) is a point of contention.
1. There is no zebra crossing (for that matter, none of the Blr signals have zebra crossing).
2. On a hot week-end you don't find anyone waiting to cross the road.

But still, I stop at Red. But yes, as you say, atleast 4 more would stop looking at me!!
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Old 21st April 2015, 17:04   #27
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Default Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Woah !!

I got this idea during my +2 [ 2004] , gave it a shape and presented a paper on exactly the same concept back in my college[ SV University College of Engg., Tirupati] on January 30 ,2010 in a Workshop named

Urban Traffic - Issues and Solutions

and it was attended by many traffic Engineers and Bureaucrats from AP and Karnataka.

My work was received well with some accolades [and some rewards too ] though I did not further work on this project due to some personal and academic constraints.

I could not find the final edition of the Ppt I presented at the seminar but I have one copy of unedited, incomplete [ and vulgar] ppt which I am posting it below. [ sorry if it appears too simplistic]
I call them ' ENFORCERS'

And aside from the advantages of this model, there are some practical hindrances like
1. the amount of huge initial investment,
2. the necessary overhauling the roads at the junctions need to equip them with these gates, [ this involves the 24*7 electricity...]
3. the disastrous outcomes if they become dysfunctional during peak hours..
Attached Files
File Type: pdf enf.pdf (759.7 KB, 349 views)

Last edited by poised2drive : 21st April 2015 at 17:15.
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Old 21st April 2015, 17:44   #28
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Default Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

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Originally Posted by luvtandon View Post
Imagine one of these systems getting implemented in a city like Delhi. Now what will happen to the law abiding citizen who is trying to cross a signal when it is still green but due to heavy traffic it takes about 20-25 seconds to cross the signal (and this is a common phenomena on Delhi roads).
In an ideal scenario, one should never enter an intersection zone until you are sure you can get across it without stopping midway.
Why - you may ask, simply because an intersection is a shared zone, shared by traffic moving in several directions, obstructing an intersection means traffic in all directions stops, if you stop before the intersection, atleast cross traffic can continue to flow.

But I digress, in effect I agree, such "hard barriers" are safety hazards and will end up causing more harm than good.
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Old 21st April 2015, 17:57   #29
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Default Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

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In an ideal scenario, one should never enter an intersection zone until you are sure you can get across it without stopping midway.
Dear adisag,

I want to ask that what is one supposed to do when the signal timer is showing more than 30-40 seconds till the light is green and still one is unable to cross the signal due to a traffic jam and is stranded on the zebra crossing, which is one of the reasons that the traffic policemen do not bother to challan such vehicles.
Kindly shed some light.

Further to that if the ideal scenarios that are being talked did exist on our roads then we would not have been here discussing this issue.

regards

Last edited by luvtandon : 21st April 2015 at 18:00.
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Old 21st April 2015, 18:14   #30
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Default Re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

I generally try and follow the 3/4th rule - ie: wait till atleast 3/4th of the intersection is clear of traffic before proceeding (even if the light is in your favour).

I concede that this is often counterintutive, and many a times not possible at all, but i had seen this work beautifully in Paris, where the intersection zone is painted red to designate no stopping under any circumstances. I do believe this discipline helps eliminate the possibility of gridlock, which is one of the major causes of traffic jams.
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