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Old 20th April 2015, 16:10   #1
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Default Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Over several years we have discussed the problem of traffic management and accidents in India but have never really found a true solution.

Do you think this will work? Will this help change habits? If not everywhere may be deploy this solution at major intersections?

Can anyone help pass this solution to the government? This system is already being used in so many countries.

If policeman cannot stop violations then we need machines to do this job!

Problem:
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Solution:

Hydraulic Barriers
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Finger Wedge Barrier
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Hydraulic Bollards
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Advantages:
Reduce traffic
Reduce accidents
Police can focus on other tasks

Disadvantages:
Initial acquisition cost high
Need to ensure 24 hour electricity (should have manual override keys by police)
May require maintenance- although design is simple, no complex technology.
Will need to be in SYNC with the traffic lights

Last edited by Aditya : 21st April 2015 at 13:37. Reason: Inserting images
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Old 20th April 2015, 16:20   #2
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Good stuff and I've seen it at work personally when abroad, but this won't work in India without a major overhaul of our traffic policing systems, municipal agencies' coordination and general driving etiquette.

One, the equipment is expensive and most of our municipal corporations are bankrupt as it is. Two, our roads are dug at random points everyday by agencies with ZERO coordination so it would be difficult to manage the installations. Three (and most important), our road users have no will to follow any rules. This works effectively in places where people intend to stop/redirect when asked to do so. Indian drivers/riders will find a way around it, causing a bigger gridlock than when the barrier didn't exist.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 20th April 2015 at 16:24.
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Old 20th April 2015, 16:28   #3
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Interesting thread. On my maiden visit to the US in 2008, I came across one way spike strips:

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These were such wonderful discipline enforcers that I tried to find out if they could be used on our roads. However, to my utter disappointment, I came across a study by the Texas transportation department which provides valid reasons why these can't be use on high speed carriageways as well as our surface streets within city limits.

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File Type: pdf EngineeringAnalysisSpikeStrips.pdf (23.6 KB, 415 views)
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Old 20th April 2015, 16:28   #4
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Good stuff and I've seen it at work personally when abroad, but this won't work in India without a major overhaul of our traffic policing systems, municipal agencies' coordination and general driving etiquette.

One, the equipment is expensive and most of our municipal corporations are bankrupt as it is. Two, our roads are dug at random points everyday by agencies with ZERO coordination so it would be difficult to manage the installations. Three (and most important), our road users have no will to follow any rules. This works effectively in places where people intend to stop/redirect when asked to do so. Indian drivers/riders will find a way around it, causing a bigger gridlock than when the barrier didn't exist.
Are you sure? There is no going around this thing


Last edited by GTO : 21st April 2015 at 12:45. Reason: Typo
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Old 20th April 2015, 17:42   #5
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

I remember they did something softer than this in Pune and No wonder when I googled, I did find an article -

http://www.punemirror.in/pune/civic/...w/43916959.cms

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In spite of repeated action against traffic offenders who violate the zebra crossing at signals, it seems that motorists continue to flout the rule.

Taking congisance of this, Pune traffic police have now decided to use ropes to create temporary barricades at major intersections. The awareness drive was initiated at Alka Talkies Chowk on Tuesday.

Since August, traffic police have been conducting special drives against such violators who create inconvenience for pedestrians by encroaching upon the painted portion. Sarang Avhad, DCP (Traffic), told Mirror that there are almost 400-500 such instances of violation every day.

"In the past 15 days, there have been 10,401 of these violations, for which we collected total fine worth Rs 10,57,500. However, motorists are not ready to follow the rule despite the crackdown. Generally, two-wheelers have a tendency to violate the rule in a bid to reach the mouth of the traffic at signals," he said.

Traffic police will create the rope barricade during red light and drop it once the signal turns green. Avhad added, "The initiative will be conducted on an experimental basis. We have appointed 25 personnel to carry out this drive. They will be deployed at five major intersections, including Shimla Office Chowk, Khandoji Baba Chowk, Bal Gandharv Chowk and Sancheti Chowk."
This (Hard Barriers) is going to be a disastrous idea to implement in India.

Currently, if everyone wants to floor their throttle to escape the red light just in (and perhaps a little after) time, with these barriers they would start timing it accordingly as per the functioning of the barrier. Indian drivers are "Pro-Active" in this area .

And when there were collisions earlier with other vehicles due to miscalculations in jumping that signal, we will have collisions with the barrier now.

After this, Imagine the chaos on roads till the block is cleared!
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Old 20th April 2015, 17:48   #6
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Are you sure? This is no going around this thing

You don't need to spend money for that!

At least in Bangalore, those all-swallowing craters are part of the 'moonscape experience' package that's FREE with every vehicle purchase and has lifetime validity (yours, not your car's). Great VFM deal, I tell ya!

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 20th April 2015 at 17:49.
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Old 20th April 2015, 18:03   #7
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
This (Hard Barriers) is going to be a disastrous idea to implement in India.

Currently, if everyone wants to floor their throttle to escape the red light just in (and perhaps a little after) time, with these barriers they would start timing it accordingly as per the functioning of the barrier. Indian drivers are "Pro-Active" in this area .

And when there were collisions earlier with other vehicles due to miscalculations in jumping that signal, we will have collisions with the barrier now.

After this, Imagine the chaos on roads till the block is cleared!
That is current scenario.

I expect the scenario to change with barriers. That is why we have orange light for this reason.

People need to understand STOP means STOP and I think this is the only way things can change or else we continue to suffer.
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Old 20th April 2015, 18:22   #8
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
People need to understand STOP means STOP and I think this is the only way things can change or else we continue to suffer.
We have had threads and millions of posts around this if you scroll the entire forum. From imposing severe fines, imprisonment to suspension of licences, its all happening but the idea of barrier simply won't seem practical to implement at all.

Let us hope that we first expect discipline among the crowd first. Barriers won't do, they never will, In India.
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Old 20th April 2015, 18:23   #9
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

When you say this wont work in India you are just saying that you are not willing to solve the problem and prefer to live with the problem.

They complain that in India people dont follow rules. So when a solution is found then they complain again that it wont work either because, it is India!

By this logic the vicious cycle will never end! We cant ever solve a problem by saying that it wont in India.

In Indian context, the solution of barrier is specifically designed to discipline the undisciplined, so I dont see much wrong in it.

Last edited by aerohit : 20th April 2015 at 18:27.
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Old 20th April 2015, 18:26   #10
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
That is current scenario.

I expect the scenario to change with barriers. That is why we have orange light for this reason.

People need to understand STOP means STOP and I think this is the only way things can change or else we continue to suffer.
You answered your own question there. It's the average driver's mindset that needs to change before any such measures will gain traction. Using spike strips to nab offenders is one thing, but putting up traffic-regulating barriers will be a disaster with the current crop of drivers and our existing infrastructure.

It's a sound idea and not impossible to implement, but needs some groundwork. Barriers can't teach people to behave. If that were true, we won't have a lot of the traffic problems we have today, even with our third-world infrastructure.

It's also not just about ill-mannered, 'won't follow the rules' drivers alone, it's a much bigger and complex problem (refer my original reply about mismanaged municipal activities), so all factors need to be considered while planning/implementing a solution.

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Old 20th April 2015, 18:31   #11
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

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When you say this wont work in India you are just saying that you are not willing to solve the problem and prefer to live with the problem.
I pass 17 Traffic Signals from home to work one way every day. Not even a single instance of Signal jumping in both my cars - 13 Years.

The moment I see that Yellow light, I actually release the throttle to brake in time before someone hits me from behind.

The moment I see Green and few seconds for it to turn red and everyone is rushing, I always expect someone to jump a signal from the other side and pounce on the traffic in my direction.

I'm willing to solve the problem this way - Others see me following rules and realize that it was a wrong thing to jump the signal in the previous traffic light.

When I return, its past 9:30PM and I see that most jump the signal. I stop at every red light even then and by that I ensure a few others see my stationary car (yeah, I keep my legs on the brake pedal so that the red light in the center hints that I am not moving bu stationary).

Of 10 who want to jump the signal, at least 4 would stop, only because I have stopped

Last edited by paragsachania : 20th April 2015 at 18:35.
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Old 20th April 2015, 18:44   #12
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Default re: Road Barriers: An effective traffic management solution for India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Do you think this will work?
Yes it will work.
Quote:
Can anyone help pass this solution to the government?
In our country, not stopping at red signal is a lesser problem. There are bigger traffic problem to solve. Mostly such barriers are used at no-entry or at checkpoints. Not sure if it is a good idea to install at every junction.
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Old 20th April 2015, 18:55   #13
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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
When you say this wont work in India you are just saying that you are not willing to solve the problem and prefer to live with the problem.

They complain that in India people dont follow rules. So when a solution is found then they complain again that it wont work either because, it is India!

By this logic the vicious cycle will never end! We cant ever solve a problem by saying that it wont in India.

In Indian context, the solution of barrier is specifically designed to discipline the undisciplined, so I dont see much wrong in it.
With the amount of traffic enforcement here in Hyderabad for following rules like staying before the 'STOP' line, waiting "patiently" at traffic signals without honking etc are difficult to be followed. Even at a signal that has a timer installed, people tend to honk when the time goes from 10, 9, 8.. the level of impatience arises with the timer going towards '0' seconds.

People just can't get lane discipline into their heads be it a highway or a city or a express way specially these truckers and buses. What is that need to occupy the rightmost lane (Fast one) chugging at 40-50 kmph? If such silly rules aren't understood and learnt, these barriers will only increase the accident (death/injury) count in cities this is installed.

I'd say first we need to educate and spread awareness regarding the rules and the need to follow them for a smoother life on roads. Each one going their own way will only make things difficult.

These barriers are a second-stage implementation to get the traffic under control + discipline.

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Let us hope that we first expect discipline among the crowd first. Barriers won't do, they never will, In India.
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Old 20th April 2015, 18:59   #14
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I'd say first we need to educate and spread awareness regarding the rules and the need to follow them for a smoother life on roads. Each one going their own way will only make things difficult
Any kid will know that amber means to slow down & stop is for red. Almost all know that zebra crossing is for pedestrians.

So, most seem to know the rules. But still they break it. What more education do they need?

Last edited by msdivy : 20th April 2015 at 19:02.
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Old 20th April 2015, 19:03   #15
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Any kid will know that amber means to slow down & stop doing red. Almost all know that zebra crossing is for pedestrians.

So, most seem to know the rules. But still they break it. What more education do they need?


Hope you weren't serious in that post of yours! Kids know that Amber is to slowing down and Red is to stop nut unfortunately the elders don't.

They may be acting as if they don't know IMO. With awareness there needs enforcement from the Police too with fines etc. People are happily paying fines or most accumulating them but not learning from their mistakes to avoid them in future.
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