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Old 12th May 2015, 15:42   #16
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

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Originally Posted by schakravarthy View Post
I don't see how that's connected to the case in question or has any bearing on the discussion. Quite beside the point I was trying to make, is it not?
'Officer' or not, he was still a policeman who was on duty.
Well, you brought it up, saying it is unbecoming of an officer. In any uniformed service, there is a big difference enlisted men and officers. Constables are enlisted men in most commonwealth nations including India. Main difference is in their education level and hiring criteria. Constables just need 10+2 schooling, Sub-Inspectors need a graduate degree. Only Sub-Inspector and above are considered officers, and have executive powers. There are also assistant SIs, not sure where they fall.

Comparing to US police officers would be incorrect because every US state follows different standards. For example, even the lowest level guy in a NJ State Police must have a bachelor's degree or equivalent and pass a very tough exam. But a Sheriff's deputy could be just a literate person.

Coming back to India, constables have no executive powers and are just supposed to follow orders from the officers. They are not considered officers at all.
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Old 12th May 2015, 15:50   #17
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

So what if the Lady threw a stone at the bike? She could have been slapped with a stricter penalty.
Police should behave more responsibly. It should not be out of the norm for them to expect such behaviour from others. Their job is to respond to such situations competently.

With one click of a button, they should start a recording whenever they interact with any offenders (like police abroad click their walkie talkies on their shoulder/chest)

Last edited by srishiva : 12th May 2015 at 15:53.
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Old 12th May 2015, 16:06   #18
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Well, you brought it up, saying it is unbecoming of an officer..
And, it looks like we can debate about it to no end.. Lol

"Insignia of an Indian Police officer with rank of head constable "
This again from the wiki page http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_constable

But let's stop, shall we? Its not adding much to the thread.
Please change the term "officer" in my original post and replace it with "policeman". The gist of the post won't deviate much. It doesn't matter if the conduct was unbecoming of an 'officer' or a simple 'policeman', it was unbecoming and he's at fault. But so is the lady, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
And that is all I'm trying to say.

Peace.
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Old 12th May 2015, 16:11   #19
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

Now that action has been taken against the Policeman (Wonder if there is provision to dismiss a man from his job for this act) can some action be taken against the woman as well?

The list of law breaking activities that she has done is plain to see and I hope the media will be kind enough to stick for action to be taken on this perpetrator as well.

Trial by media going to heights in this country.
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Old 12th May 2015, 16:41   #20
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

Personally, I'm no fan of cops. Who are? But in any skirmish between a cop (even an unruly one) and a goon, I would support a cop more than a goon. And what this lady has done is nothing short of being a goon. Her only merit is, she is a woman. But as can be seen from the long list of misdemeanour and acts of aggression, she qualifies to be called a first-rate hooligan. And by siding up with her, media is encouraging her type. If cop is punished, she should be punished more. Politicians may see here an opportunity to extract maximum mileage by letting her off the hook, to project themselves as a devoted-to-womens'-welfare types. But this is dangerous trend and does not augur well for society.

Last edited by pgsagar : 12th May 2015 at 16:43.
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Old 12th May 2015, 16:58   #21
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

The woman in question broke several laws including attacking the policeman/his bike. What should a policeman with half a brain and sense of duty do? Report her immediately (to get her arrested) or take the law in his hand and try to deliver spot justice by throwing a brick at her? The situation was certainly not life threatening for the police officer to warrant such a reaction. The lady definitely broke laws (and deserves punishment) but the irresponsible act of the policeman has diverted attention away from the lady's act to the attitude of police in general.
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Old 12th May 2015, 17:03   #22
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

Quote:
Originally Posted by schakravarthy View Post
And, it looks like we can debate about it to no end.. Lol

"Insignia of an Indian Police officer with rank of head constable "
This again from the wiki page http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_constable
No, we are not having a debate. Now I realise you used the word officer very loosely, just like that wiki page. But in uniformed services, the word officer has very specific meaning, you can check with any member of uniformed service. I merely highlighted it.

There is no need to edit that post, now that the point is clarified.
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Old 12th May 2015, 17:03   #23
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

Now that the media have sold one part of the story, by showing the cop throwing the brick on the lady repeatedly and action already taken by the authorities on the officer

Next they will bask on this glory they highlighted on their channel all day.

Next, tomorrow, they show repeatedly the clips in exact opposite direction (read as the real version) showing the lady throwing the bring at the officers bike.

Next, Again the authorities will act on it by slapping charges on the lady.

Next they will bask on this glory they highlighted on their channel all day.

Targets (TRP's) achieved for the month of May.
God forbid, if the TRP's are achieved already by the first piece of action on the cop, they might not even show the next series (season II) and the lady walks free and the kids learn what they saw with their own eyes (break signals, break law-carry 2+ people on a two wheeler, doesn't matter if there is no driving license - A cop is nothing. Throw whatever comes to your hand at them. In India there are ways to walk away free even if the cop catches you.)


That is how most of the media operates in our country. (I said most, please do not come back at me with the good one's). TRP centric approach is a sad state of affairs, since they have completely forgotten that they also have a responsibility on their shoulders of showing the rationale/correct/right view to the people.


PS: OT but it saddens me to see people carrying kids on their two wheeler and giving no thought to the traffic rules - driving on wrong sides, breaking signals, etc, because kids learn what they see. I see it everyday here in Pune and I am sure it happens everywhere else in India. This is how the next gen is being groomed as far as traffic rules/driving sense is concerned

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 12th May 2015 at 17:04.
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Old 12th May 2015, 17:14   #24
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

Dear All,

Honestly speaking, should we discuss this topic further? I mean do we expect the such behavior from anyone belonging to civilized society?

Firstly it is safe to have three pillion riders on a scooter? Secondly is it even correct to get into fight with someone who is trying to follow / implement the law? Further is it morally correct on both the involved parties to get into throwing bricks at each other?

I may be harsh, but I would expect such behavior (of throwing bricks) only from hardened criminals.

Our media has already lost face globally during Nepal earthquake coverage. Let us not discuss an issue that is purposefully highlighted (in the hope of getting higher viewership) by media by repeatedly showing their studio edited clips.

Thanks,
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Old 12th May 2015, 17:28   #25
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

I am curious: does the traffic constable has the authority to arrest people? In any case, he would not be able to arrest a woman, since it requires a lady cop to be present. What can be recourse for traffic police stuck with an unruly lady?

Genuine question, not defending the actions of the cop here.
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Old 12th May 2015, 17:34   #26
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

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Originally Posted by ani_meher View Post
I am curious: does the traffic constable has the authority to arrest people? In any case, he would not be able to arrest a woman, since it requires a lady cop to be present. What can be recourse for traffic police stuck with an unruly lady?

Genuine question, not defending the actions of the cop here.
Note down the registration number of the vehicle and sue for breaking signal and carrying 3 on a scooter. Nothing much actually on the brick throwing incident, since he was not aware of any recorded clip being available, there would have been no proof of the lady throwing the brick except for his word on it.
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Old 12th May 2015, 19:01   #27
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
Note down the registration number of the vehicle...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Both parties have broken the law and action should be taken against both, not just the cop.
It's a strange dilemma that the Delhi Traffic Police (and Delhi as a whole) faces.

Some time ago, the DTP stopped sending traffic violation notices through the mail to the registered addresses for noted vehicle numbers. It was found that about 50-60% of such notices were returned undelivered, on a variety of grounds - addressee unknown, no one at that address, addressee was a tenant who left, vehicle sold (and not transferred), wrong registration, make and colour details, or even worse, outstation registration numbers for which addresses do not exist. Of the challans that were delivered, almost half remained unpaid for months on end. DTP does not have the manpower to send constables to serve court notices to those who do not pay up (remember, the force only has about 6,000 personnel), and the collection from the notices was found not to even recover the cost of printing & postage.

So, all traffic cops had been instructed to physically stop violators and fine them on the spot. For some time, cops have been photographing cars violating red lights and stop lines before pulling up the violators, because most drivers deny breaking rules when they are flagged down. Many simply ignore the constable and drive off, and there is nothing the cop can do. Chasing and stopping them, followed by an argument about whether the driver actually broke rules or not, is too time-consuming - and some drivers even get aggressive and violent when cops try stopping them. So the chase-and-challan system is not working too well either.

In this scenario, rule-breaking by motorists across the roads of Delhi is rampant, and there is a huge disconnect between senior officers issuing orders from their air-conditioned offices, and the cop on the street. I get a chance to talk to a group of constables and head constables occasionally, when they are working at the crossing near my residence. Their frustration level is sky-high, yet their service rules do not allow them to protest, go on strike or complain. Their suggestions for improving compliance or preventing reckless driving are ignored. They don't even carry a baton for self-defence.

And now, in one fell swoop, the top brass of Delhi Police has demoralised each of these cops on the streets by summarily arresting, suspending and sacking the concerned constable, without any hearing or discussion, based on only the evidence from the video. No one is talking about what happened just before the incident of brick-throwing happened. The lady may be fined a few hundred rupees for minor traffic offences (she has not been fined yet), but unlike the DTC drivers who went on strike yesterday seeking justice for their colleague who was murdered, the colleagues of the head constable don't even have a choice of striking work to seek justice for him.

All they do now is grumble amongst themselves about how unfairly and one-sidedly the incident has been handled, and how, the next time they are faced with a lady traffic violator or one with aggressive tendencies, they would simply let her/him go without any action being taken, because the next time it might be their own jobs that would be on the line.

I believe the two incidents, the one being discussed on this thread as well as the one where the DTC driver was killed, are just harbingers of worse things to come for the law-abiding motorists of Delhi. Untrained drivers, uncouth people, uncontrolled traffic, understaffed and demoralised cops, clueless governments - it's a frightening cocktail waiting to explode in our faces in a few years.
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Old 12th May 2015, 19:08   #28
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

The man behind that police uniform is also human and just like us or rather probably a tad bit more frustrated by being in a thankless job. What is the position of police in our society can be deciphered from the lady having the guts to throw a brick at the cop's bike. That is totally uncalled for.

But due to the media noise, only the cop will get the punishment and not the lady which would be really sad and set a precedent that you can throw bikes at police cops legally.
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Old 12th May 2015, 19:13   #29
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

No one is highlighting that what impact this incident will have on the Morale of the constables and other junior officers who day in and day out deal with corrupt bosses, arrogant politicians and now this thankless and arrogant public. I think the reaction of the policeman was the maximum he could do while being attacked by the lady.
Afterwards there is no way he can have any legal recourse.
As highlighted in Salman Khan's case that it's the government's failure if people are sleeping on footpath, similarly had this lady been involved in an accident along with kids by some high profile car driver, many people will say that the lady passed the constable 500 mts (for e.g.) before the place where accident took place hence the constable should be charged for not doing his duty.

Last edited by GTO : 13th May 2015 at 11:41. Reason: Typo
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Old 12th May 2015, 19:59   #30
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Default re: Woman throws brick at traffic cop's motorcycle. Cop throws brick at woman. Cop sacked

Let's forget this brick throwing episode for a moment and just focus on what in my opinion is a much more serious issue/crime. This woman had 3 kids on her scooter and jumped a traffic signal. This shows a complete disregard for the safety of her own children. What kind of a person willingly put's their own children at risk? Shouldn't there be laws that penalize/punish people who endanger their own children?
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