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Old 25th July 2015, 22:35   #331
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by malq View Post

3) Is a private motor-car driving licence valid for a rent-a-car all India? Increasingly, that's up to the State Government.

4) Back to the incident - looking forward to a basic answer on why the audio was muted.
Answer 3 > Yes. A private driving license is valid for self drive fleet car rentals. If you dont know what a fleet car means - it means black plates with yellow numbers. And YES, they can travel interstate by paying the requisite RTO fees / chungi(delhi lingo) at respective state borders.

Answer 4 > All dashcams have a setting to mute the audio. And almost all people using dashcams, everywhere, turn on this facility in their dashcam so as to not record personal conversations and music etc are not recorded. This helps the user to add whatever music they like later without bothering much about audio editing software where removal of background sounds becomes necessary.

Let me also point 1 more fact - when the goofy ladakhi drivers/ protesters talk about us tourists destroying the environment can you explain -

1. On any winter trip to Ladakh the local taxi drivers take you for a drive ON the frozen Pangong lake for clicking pics etc. Doesnt that violate the environment and the sacred sanctity of the lake..?
2. The Ladakhis claim that tourists in their" offroaders" drive on the dunes which is harmful to the environment - Can they explain how driving on the dunes damages the environment - do the ladakhis plan to grow grapes on the dunes ?

From all the Ladakhi ranting finally one thing has become clear - a greedy community bought too many taxis on loan and now expect the rest of the country to compensate for their greed.

If the environment is so much of a concern to ladakhis then the Ladakhis need to tell their state to put the entire district of Ladakh on ILP list and restrict entry to all.
Thereafter they can protect their environment by go-karting their taxis on the frozen Pangong and even grow some grapes in the dunes of Hunder!!

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 25th July 2015 at 22:44.
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Old 25th July 2015, 23:14   #332
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1)....... looking forward to a basic answer on why the audio was muted.
Unless recording audio for a specific purpose (voiceover commentary for a review, travelogue or some such), most people actually prefer to mute dashcam audio as removing select bits of recorded audio is far more cumbersome for the layman user than adding a random soundtrack in later. Audio takes disk space too, which is another 'sound' reason to have it muted to save space for video instead, excuse the pun. If I'm recording something I may post online publicly someday, I'd rather not want everything I say to my wife & kids in the car recorded. Would you?

I realize I'm not saying anything numerous other people haven't said already, but posting this specifically assuming you may have missed earlier responses mixed into long posts.

If you're bent on assuming an ulterior motive for the missing soundtrack, you're entitled to your opinion, of course.
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Old 25th July 2015, 23:20   #333
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Well, I do agree we are majority off-roaders here. I mean look around! I see more craters than road in my daily commute!

Frankly I think this is all a cock n bull story about the Fortuner hitting a local and fracturing his leg. If my car and family were attacked like this, frankly I wouldn't care who or what was in my escape path, so I admire the presence of mind of the Fortuner driver.
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Old 25th July 2015, 23:49   #334
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

The silver lining - T-Bhp is becoming huge with every passing day. People look up to us when it comes to wheels, roads, travel. As for Ladakhis, we have forced them to come forward and give an explanation, illogical explanation if I may say so. It is good to know, they are realizing that their greed would cost them big time.

Last edited by Engine_Roars : 25th July 2015 at 23:50.
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Old 26th July 2015, 00:52   #335
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

I have a flight booked for 15th Aug to chandigarh and then borrow a friends car and drive to Leh, and with every passing day i am just thinking of hitting the cancel button. Even if things are ok for private vehicles i don't think i feel safe anymore for those 15 days, and rather then going to have fun, i would probably be in constant fear for 15 days if i am going to get assaulted like this.

Also to the entire debate of what happened or what did not happen, the local guys had no right in any capacity to stop the vehicle to begin with, whatever transpires after that is not even a question after that.
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Old 26th July 2015, 01:24   #336
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by AtheK View Post
I have a flight booked for 15th Aug to chandigarh and then borrow a friends car and drive to Leh, and with every passing day i am just thinking of hitting the cancel button. Even if things are ok for private vehicles i don't think i feel safe anymore for those 15 days, and rather then going to have fun, i would probably be in constant fear for 15 days if i am going to get assaulted like this.

Also to the entire debate of what happened or what did not happen, the local guys had no right in any capacity to stop the vehicle to begin with, whatever transpires after that is not even a question after that.
There are two checkposts. One while going to Khardung La and other while going to Pangong. There they check your DL and RC.
If your DL does not match RC, there could be trouble. Or you could just tell them that its your FILs car or something
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Old 26th July 2015, 01:26   #337
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

From what I understand no outside vehicles are welcome, so forget taking your friend's car, unless you risk it being destroyed.

Even if you do not want to take sides, this would not be the right time to go there. Let things cool down completely before going.
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Old 26th July 2015, 01:30   #338
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by bullrun87 View Post
I found another reply by a ladakhi in the ladakh in the media facebook group. He attempts to present the "other perspective"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3404...5289689216547/

Mods: please remove this if it is against forum rules.

"Have seen the video on YouTube ?? , Go see it once again
Few points to be noted .
1. A private car ( crv\ santafe ) leading the fortuner is also a outside car , the car passed freely and no one even tried to stop it ,
Here you go, this is the CRV that slipped past them before they could realise it was a private car. It was smashed up at the next checkpost.

Quote:
2. This car was a rental car , and it is widely circulated on the internet that no self driven car will be allowed .. The guy being a member of teambhp especially knew about it .
3 . on being stopped , he instead tried to run away . he hav to stop somehow as he can't ran over the locals.
4. On being stopped ,one guy asked to come step out of car for negotiation (his gesture )
5 . we can't see any thing like hockey stick , stones or any weapons in their hands , this proves there was no intention of harming initially.
6 . There's no audio and this is for a reason , according to first hand informations I got . when stopped he instead of negotiating starts using abusive words and said ... " tum gorkhe log jante nhi ho meh kaun hun " ..
Absolute BS. There was no negotiation. They gestured us to stop (we did), they tried to snatch the keys from ignition (I rolled up the window) and then they started kicking, hitting, pushing the Fortuner (see the shaking part in the video). The 'elderly gentleman in the white cap' calmly lay infront of the car before challenging me to run over him. Another goon pointed out to me that he was lying infront of the car. I didn't drive because I am a human being. I revved the engine - the guy in the cap got up, picked up a huge rock, smashed it on the bonnet while the other fellows ensured to smash other windows to bits including the windshield. I just drove off as soon as I spotted a gap. And all this happened while my family is in the car with little kids. Also there were 2 huge rocks (same size or larger than the one in the video) they threw INTO the Fortuner after smashing the rear windows, without a care for the occupants of the car. Clear attempt to murder.

Quote:
7. The guy is the white cap was almost crushed (look carefully @ 01:01 ) under the right front wheel . according to sources he allegedly suffered a fracture .
8. Things turn violent only after that ..
9. the resolution was passed , with support of all business organisation ,religious organisations . it was in effect from last two months , many have drive knowingly or unknowingly beyond the leh and were made to pay the fine.
Why not just ask us for a fine and apology and let us pass? Why scar us for life?

The guy in the white cap was the leader and mastermind. He didn't get the slightest scratch on his body (clearly evident from the video). I am surprised you'll could think of a leg fracture case when he clearly got up in next 5 seconds, walked a few feet to pick up a stone that probably weighs as much as him and then threw it onto the car.

Quote:
10. No outside vehicles who have gone against the resolution was harmed , it was sorted out by peaceful negotiations .
11.These guys dare to go against the resolution as they were there on reference from some influential person.
We are no daredevils. We are common peace loving men. And if we had the influence claimed by the Ladakhis, this wouldn't be our fate.

Quote:
12. Some says ( not first hand information) these guys drove their cars into pangong lake , when local taxi driver tried to stop them , they thrashed them ( yes ,they were a group of 15 cars )
BS.
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Last edited by Rehaan : 28th July 2015 at 19:27. Reason: Removing number plate on a member's request.
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Old 26th July 2015, 02:20   #339
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
There are two checkposts. One while going to Khardung La and other while going to Pangong. There they check your DL and RC.
If your DL does not match RC, there could be trouble. Or you could just tell them that its your FILs car or something
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
From what I understand no outside vehicles are welcome, so forget taking your friend's car, unless you risk it being destroyed.

Even if you do not want to take sides, this would not be the right time to go there. Let things cool down completely before going.
So my friend is ready to give me an affidavit in writing saying that it is his car and has been given to me. It's an AWD CRV and that makes me even more nervous as damages to car(If any) would be expensive to repair.

Yes i guess i will jjust consul couple of others travelling and pull the plug on this one for now. Had waited for 3 years for this to materialize and now will have to cancel it, and not sure if it will materialize ever again
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Old 26th July 2015, 04:51   #340
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Can anyone give answer to following questions. 1. Who has passed this law that private or rental cars are not allowed, government or taxi unions? 2. What is the meaning of negotiations, if it is the fine by government why can't I see any police official or proper check points in the video?
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Old 26th July 2015, 05:25   #341
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

I have never visited Leh-Ladakh, although, I have, like several others, wished to.
However, I have visited Srinagar 3 times - in 2003, 2004 and 2011. The first 2 visits were undertaken in a self-owned and driven WagonR and Indica respectively and were quite fun and we enjoyed ourselves a lot.

Now, coming to the point of righteousness-
The main point of concern according to me where this debate begins is -
why can random local people in plain clothes halt a car (private/self-drive/commercial/any) and ask for showing documents or ask for money ?
And regarding this particular video in discussion (and not question) anybody who is doubting the car owner/driver, tell us if some wrong intentions/earlier quarrel/links with top powerful people would have been there, would the driver have even slowed down the car, when road was blocked and then gesture was made ?
And the intention of the people stopping the car is more than clear - to gang up around the car, damage it and teach a lesson for breaking 'the so called law', because, if you need to talk with a person regarding any documents/toll/tax on the road, you need a max. of 3 people to ensure that the car halts and driver talks to you and not so many like one can clearly see in the video and moreover the guys standing in front of the car, just see the way they're looking at and inside the car as if to estimate how much they can loot ?

I stand by the people who suffered from this horrible criminal incident.
And regarding any of my plans to visit the place - forget it and not at all suggested to anyone in my circle.
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Old 26th July 2015, 06:38   #342
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

At the outset, let me say that what we are seeing is one side of the incident-that of the members who have posted here. But for as long as I don't see credible evidence otherwise, I will choose to believe what I CAN see. As reticient as I am with online social media, your post was was just too provocative to not respond to. While I would not like to call you a troll, I am absolutely failing to see the logic in your post. Let me address your observations piecemeal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Look at the dashcam video again carefully. (Surpising to observe that sound appears to have been suppressed). Between 00:45 and 01:05, 20 seconds, things move fast and it appears as though the elderly gent in the white cap has come between the white Gypsy and the vehicle with the dashcam, and then fallen or been pushed in front of the vehicle with the dashcam.
Why do you believe the sound is 'suppressed' or intentionally removed? How do you know the owner of the dashcam didn't choose to have it switched off during driving, for a variety of reasons? Are you insinuating that the driver of the dashcam vehicle said something so inflammatory that his family can be attacked by multiple people? I have no idea what I, you or anybody can say individually that a group of men can attack my family. Coming to the white cap gent-no idea where you got elderly, upon closer viewing, you might find that he may have been brushed by the passing gypsy and ended up in front of the vehicle with the dashcam as a result.

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What would I do if I was somehow pushed in front of a vehicle revving to get out? Think about it carefully and then blame somebody for picking up a stone.
Surely you jest. I have no idea what you would do but if I were 'somehow pushed in front of a vehicle revving to get out', and the driver of said vehicle stopped and didn't drive over me, I would be grateful to him and look for reasons as to how I was somehow pushed in front of a vehicle, revving or otherwise. Seriously, what would you do if you saw a vehicle revving to get out and were accidentally pushed in front of it? Would you really pick up a huge stone and drop it on the vehicle revving to get out?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
There is another factor - while a private driving licence technically entitles us to drive all over India in a private car, some restrictions can be placed on border roads as well as roads specific to some purposes. A private driving licence does not entitle us to go wherever we want to - try and get into a bus lane on a BRT or try and enter the taxi lane at the airport or railway station, for example. Or try and enter high security areas?
Are you equating the people who stopped this vehicle from entering an area (ladakh, Goa, Karnataka, etc.) to an official government mandated order? I don't think this is a factor at all. Nobody can stop me from driving anywhere in any state, city, town, area, unless mandated by the government in effect, state or central. Again, I just do not see the logic in the way you think. Are these government guys stopping the vehicle to collect fees, charges, whatever? I do not drive on BRTS lanes or one-way roads since lawfully that is incorrect and I am liable to be penalised. Driving to Ladakh in my vehicle, which consists of a driver (me) and my vehicle, both of which are legally allowed to be driven anywhere in India, I am not liable to be penalized. Try and recognize the difference here since your post seems to merge the 2 concepts.

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
Maybe the Ladakh taxi operators have a valid point - everybody and their nephews should not be permitted on every road in Ladakh, especially in over-powered vehicles. Let there be a rule that duly licenced, duly trained, duly certified and duly insured drivers will only be permitted to drive on certain roads. If private drivers do not meet these conditions, stringent and why not, then they can hire a driver from a pool of such locally duly licenced/certified/insured/trained options, who will be graded according to their skills and certifications for vehicles by engine and power sizes. Such drivers shall also have para-medical training, be aware of local search and rescue options and in general be more like beacons of responsiblity for their State and for India. In due course of time some of these drivers can be way better than the rally drivers we have in India.
Again, I am absolutely failing to see the logic in your post. I am allowed to drive up where its legal, in what vehicle is legal but I shouldn't because I should nurture the rally driving talent from Ladakh? I understand your sarcasm and even the idea of having drivers trained to be EMTs and GPSs and even firefighters. What on earth does that have to to do with the topic at hand? It is a question of legality vs. otherwise. This is bordering on protectionism without a cause.

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
After all, how many of us who have driven on those roads do not have a story of being helped or rescued? I do. And mine goes back to 1974. So I am personally grateful for the help from the hardy road warriors of Ladakh/J&K and HP, just to name two parts of India.
So you were helped by the locals in 1974 and so you believe that now they should be allowed to do as they please? Again, is that what you suggesting? Hell, I was saved from drowning by a Goan gentleman in 1973 in Calangute, so I guess its fine if I am not allowed to swim in the sea now in 2015 by someone else. Again, what is this protectionism? Just because someone saved my life at some time, does not even vaguely make it ok for their son to rob my house 30 years later.

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
These hill drivers are assets. It is up to us to make things happen. Properly.

Instead, it appears that the system has saddled what could be amongst the best hill drivers in the country with huge debts, and now the system is forcing them on the roads.
I agree, the system is a bit broken. The people in the video 'could' be the best hill drivers in the country but instead of working the system, they choose to do something that is illegal? Are you really saying that is ok? Bit inspired by Rang de Basanti, are we?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
This is happening in many parts of the country.

Instead of making loans for vehicles easier, provide better training and certification for these natural hill drivers, and take it from there. The good ones will get more work by word of mouth, the not-so-good ones will linger on and the bad ones will fade out.
This one is so out of context here that I am afraid i'll get jumped by the mods for just responding to it. I don't care if loans are easier, or there is bad training or whetever. This incident can never be justified, whether it is in Ladakh, Manali, Delhi, Pune, or Goa. Incidentally, why would these natural hill drivers, who in time, could be better than some rally drivers in India require better training and certification? if learning comes from instruction which comes from experience, I would think they are learning on the job every single day for 5 months? Random question here, how many of these drivers, in your estimation, have even showed potential to be rally drivers on snow?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
I hope this is resolved soon.
Ah, finally a point where I agree with you.

Let me put my views in context, I was a civilian who grew up in NE India where areas like this are far more abundant that most people know. Arunachal, Shillong, Diphu are just some of the more known areas where local laws like such exist. This is no manner makes it constitutionally lawful. I have tried and worked with whatever local customs have been prevalent and usually gotten my way but this did not at all mean I agreed with the custom. Smashing someone's vehicle or property is just not justifiably legal, whatever the local custom.

Your post reeks of the Raj era. Protectionism by might does not work in today's India.

Last edited by thewhiteknight : 26th July 2015 at 06:44.
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Old 26th July 2015, 07:15   #343
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by wanderer4x4 View Post
Let's salute the neo- Gestapo there in Ladakh. Sieg Heil !

Welcome to Nazi land.
Please avoid unnecessarily provocative statements like the ones made above. As you yourself said it, rightly:
Quote:
And now, the above fb post is making it Ladakh vs Tbhp. Let's make it very clear. We are not against Ladakh, we are not against ladakhis. We share the same concern for the environment. And we are ready not to drive there if there is a legitimate act or rule passed by the executive or the judiciary. But, no sorry, few goons can not throw stones at us at his whims and expect us to respect their writ. And that's precisely the prime issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
From all the Ladakhi ranting finally one thing has become clear - a greedy community bought too many taxis on loan and now expect the rest of the country to compensate for their greed.

If the environment is so much of a concern to ladakhis then the Ladakhis need to tell their state to put the entire district of Ladakh on ILP list and restrict entry to all.
Thereafter they can protect their environment by go-karting their taxis on the frozen Pangong and even grow some grapes in the dunes of Hunder!!
Your statements against "Ladakhis" are borderline offensive, honestly. The same point can be made by sticking to the facts and not indulging in namecalling and sarcasm. A lot of us have visited Ladakh and experienced nothing but warmth and hospitality. The illegal acts of the few should NOT be projected on the population as a whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post

I realize I'm not saying anything numerous other people haven't said already, but posting this specifically assuming you may have missed earlier responses mixed into long posts.
Agree. The "why no audio?" question has been addressed by several posters already and it's either being pointedly ignored by @malq or has escaped his attention. I would say that non-audio dashcam footage is the norm rather than the exception.
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Old 26th July 2015, 08:41   #344
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Originally Posted by AtheK View Post
I have a flight booked for 15th Aug to chandigarh and then borrow a friends car and drive to Leh, and with every passing day i am just thinking of hitting the cancel button. Even if things are ok for private vehicles i don't think i feel safe anymore for those 15 days, and rather then going to have fun, i would probably be in constant fear for 15 days if i am going to get assaulted like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheK View Post
So my friend is ready to give me an affidavit in writing saying that it is his car and has been given to me. It's an AWD CRV and that makes me even more nervous as damages to car(If any) would be expensive to repair.

Yes i guess i will jjust consul couple of others travelling and pull the plug on this one for now. Had waited for 3 years for this to materialize and now will have to cancel it, and not sure if it will materialize ever again
I can fully understand the concerns, sentiment and at the end of the day, the basic principle of not wanting to promote a place where my safety is at risk due to illegal activities.

Me and a group of friends who were planning to take 2 personal vehicles and join a couple of other friends flying in to Ladakh mid August have decided to pull the plug. So that's our contribution of 10 who are protesting by our actions rather than just words.

Protectionism is NOT the way to go... we have unique assets which people world over desire to see, and this kind of short sightedness and high handedness is what will kill the golden goose. It is no coincidence that you see a large number of Indians now opting for foreign vacations rather than exploring locally, and I am pretty sure economics is the last reason promoting this migration.

The one beacon for tourism in India that I have personally experienced is Rajasthan with excellent infra. Why can't the same model be replicated?

I think it may be worthwhile to set up and FB or other online page and start doing a counter there of how many people are choosing not to visit due to this issue.
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Old 26th July 2015, 08:56   #345
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Default Re: Julley to the Land of High Passes - Ladakh!

Quoting my own post from last year..

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Originally Posted by schakravarthy View Post

• I've never seen more friendly or helpful people. Everyone has a smile on their face. Even at the hostile conditions of Chang La, when a driver from the opposite side barged onto our narrow path, our driver greeted him with a smile and a friendly 'Julley'. We didn't see him, or for that matter anyone, lose their cool even once. We travelled to different places, yet, where ever we went, the people were more than ready to be of assistance.

I still don't believe that such nice people could go bad in such a short time. As with everything, be it place, religion or community, it's the actions of the few that paints the entire group in black.
I refuse to believe that all Ladakhis, or even all Taxi drivers, are behaving like hooligans. And, for that reason, I do hope that we stop addressing the culprits as "Ladakhis"; "Taxi Mafia" sounds just fine.

We, a fellow BHPian and me, had a September drive/ride from Bangalore to Ladakh planned. We are now forced to reconsider the plans. Sadly, in this case, what hurts more than the cancellation of the trip is the reason for the cancellation. Hope things settle down in the valley and the people become their usual smiling selves again.

Ps- of all the people to indulge in desecration of nature by way of insensitive off-roading or driving into the Pangong, I would go out on a limb and say BHPians would be last. This belief isn't something that arises out of a misplaced sense of loyalty or is not in fierce defence of the forum, this is more to do with the average IQ and awareness level of the members.
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