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Old 26th July 2015, 08:59   #346
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by VineetSoni View Post
Just saw this on Facebook.
Attachment 1395259
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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
The illegal acts of the few should NOT be projected on the population as a whole.
If you read the poster in post 301, the concerned ban has been supported and upheld by all the associations of Ladakh which pretty much reflects the entire population (with a few exceptions maybe) from hotels, traders, taxi association etc, since pretty much everyone in Ladakh is directly and indirectly engaged in the tourist trade. When all these associations together and unanimously, have supported and upheld this ban, it allows me to make conclusions and say what I have.

I have nothing against Ladakh nor Ladakhis. I love the place and the people. But when a "domestic" "Indian" tourist like me gets branded as an environmental & cultural polluter and the entire domestic population of commoners like me is banned from driving (to protect vested interests) in Ladakh, which is very much a part of India as much as I am, for acts conducted by a few handful, then my conclusions are very much justified.
I would suggest you read that poster once again and draw inference from there and if i missed something in it, I would be happy to know otherwise.

Cheers,
Jay

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Old 26th July 2015, 09:20   #347
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Would be interesting to find out how many people here going on and on about their rights and legal technicalities of taking self-drive rentals into other States as well as not following common courtesies of abiding by local customs and regulations in other States of India will subject their vehicles to voluntary inspection for technical modifications not allowed by law in India?

I'm looking at multiple photographs and posts here on this website itself - bull-bars, under-the-bonnet modifications, exterior modifications, added weights, added lights and horns, the whole nine yards. And while this website may have masked registration plates, such details are easily available at every checkpost and tollbooth which keep video records of every vehicle passing through.

But hey, since it is easier to go to town on what appear to be people protesting about their livelihoods being snatched away by a bunch of out-of-towners, go for it!

Your rights end about a foot away from my nose has been an old expression which has stood many people in good stead.

Ladakh and for that matter other parts of India will not miss louts and boors, that's for sure, driving or riding up in the guise of "tourism". Wait for the next modified stud vehicle to be pulled over - there are hundreds on display here itself, with people bragging about where they are going, to make it easier.

Go get your modifications regularised, if legally possible, at your RTO of registration and see what lessons you learn about legal rights before trying to teach others. Already in Bengaluru and Delhi, modified bikes are being pulled up, as some may be aware.
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Old 26th July 2015, 09:25   #348
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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And all this happened while my family is in the car with little kids. Also there were 2 huge rocks (same size or larger than the one in the video) they threw INTO the Fortuner after smashing the rear windows, without a care for the occupants of the car.
Saddened to read this part - I did not know previously that there were children in this Fortuner. How can anyone attack a car with children in it ? What if they had got injured ?

Quite unimaginable , really.
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Old 26th July 2015, 09:34   #349
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Originally Posted by malq View Post
But hey, since it is easier to go to town on what appear to be people protesting about their livelihoods being snatched away by a bunch of out-of-towners, go for it!

Your rights end about a foot away from my nose has been an old expression which has stood many people in good stead.
Good ones there. Both of them.
The second one especially.
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Old 26th July 2015, 09:34   #350
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by malq View Post

But hey, since it is easier to go to town on what appear to be people protesting about their livelihoods being snatched away by a bunch of out-of-towners, go for it!

Your rights end about a foot away from my nose has been an old expression which has stood many people in good stead.

Ladakh and for that matter other parts of India will not miss louts and boors, that's for sure, driving or riding up in the guise of "tourism". Wait for the next modified stud vehicle to be pulled over - there are hundreds on display here itself, with people bragging about where they are going, to make it easier.

Go get your modifications regularised, if legally possible, at your RTO of registration and see what lessons you learn about legal rights before trying to teach others. Already in Bengaluru and Delhi, modified bikes are being pulled up, as some may be aware.
Are you trying to say the Fortuner was stopped by the men for illegal modifications? Just for the sake of some laughs, didn't those men perform illegal modifications on the vehicles themselves by breaking the windows and hammering away at the body?

Get real, dude!
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Old 26th July 2015, 09:38   #351
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
I would suggest you read that poster once again and draw inference from there and if i missed something in it, I would be happy to know otherwise.

Cheers,
Jay

Jay- I have read that post and fully appreciate what you are trying to say. However my only point is that repeated use of the term "Ladakhis"- in itself a harmless descriptor- could in the context of current events and accompanied by sarcasm be perceived as derogatory. Also while the resolution you speak of does seem to have been supported by all local bodies related to tourism in the region, there is no reason to automatically assume that the Facebook poster speaks for all of them, let alone all of Ladakh.
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Old 26th July 2015, 09:38   #352
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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4) Back to the incident - looking forward to a basic answer on why the audio was muted.
I guess many, including me had mentioned here that already.
It's as simple as "Nobody wants you to listen to their private conversations, while travelling with family".
These dash-cams come with a mute option...and that's for a reason.
And whether the audio was removed, only the victim can tell.

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Old 26th July 2015, 09:41   #353
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
Would be interesting to find out how many people here going on and on about their rights and legal technicalities of taking self-drive rentals into other States as well as not following common courtesies of abiding by local customs and regulations in other States of India will subject their vehicles to voluntary inspection for technical modifications not allowed by law in India?
I wouldn't mind for one. All my vehicles are all OEM.

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
Go get your modifications regularised, if legally possible, at your RTO of registration and see what lessons you learn about legal rights before trying to teach others. Already in Bengaluru and Delhi, modified bikes are being pulled up, as some may be aware.
The only modification I have on my vehicles are Team-BHP stickers. I have found tremendous value from the site without feeling compelled to do any mods to my rides. Where exactly is this coming from?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
But hey, since it is easier to go to town on what appear to be people protesting about their livelihoods being snatched away by a bunch of out-of-towners, go for it!
Is "protest" what you choose to call the incidents in the video? I would have a slightly different take on that.

Livelihoods unfortunately do get threatened by change in environment, and the way to counter that is being more compelling and competitive rather than protectionism. Look at the IT industry in India and imagine what would have happened to this economic engine for India if the US had chosen to be protectionist rather than economy driven.

Look at Rajasthan and Kerala for models of tourism already working and flourishing in India. I haven't seen locals complaining about livelihood going away and a lot of enthusiasm to ensure business increases.

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
Ladakh and for that matter other parts of India will not miss louts and boors, that's for sure, driving or riding up in the guise of "tourism".
That is painting a lot of people with a pretty broad brush, don't you think? This seems to be in line with the "all BHPians are offroaders" sentiment.
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Old 26th July 2015, 09:44   #354
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

To summarise, since many years, it was

Ladakh taxis v non-Ladakh taxis. Since 2015, it included

Ladakh taxis v self-driven rented cars [exempted, if succumbed to the 'peaceful' negotiations aka extortions]. Later, it also added

Ladakh taxis v privately-owned cars [exempted, if succumbed to the 'peaceful' negotiations aka extortions]. Then, it became

Peaceful Ladakhis v boorish tourists. Actually, it tuned out to

Ladakhis v non-Ladakhis, meaning

Locals v outsiders. In the meanwhile, it took a turn of

Self-appointed protectors of fragile environment of Ladakh v polluters.

Perfect hill drivers v imperfect plain drivers. Finally, ending with

Ladakhis v Team-BHP. Thankfully, facebook, Twitter and YouTube are spared!
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Old 26th July 2015, 09:52   #355
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Since we are all talking finer points of legalities here, was the dashcam fitted a legal modification with permission and regulation of the local RTO where vehicle was registered? Think deeply before answering this question please. Especially if vehicle was being operated in Defence areas and ASI areas.
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Old 26th July 2015, 09:53   #356
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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But hey, since it is easier to go to town on what appear to be people protesting about their livelihoods being snatched away by a bunch of out-of-towners, go for it!
Nice way to protest loss of livelihood. Pass an illegal resolution in your association, get your band of goon supporters to start acting as quasi government officials, stop private vehicles, damage the vehicles and terrorize the occupants, who happen to be just tourist citizens from the country coming to Ladakh on vacation.
And then you have the gall to brand everyone as offroaders and now you come up with a lame argument of modified vehicles.
So what are we going to have next - National RTO of Ladakh - to scrutinize all vehicles for technical fitness and if they dont conform then we will throw a rock through the windshield and pierce an iron rod through the bodywork.
Dude
I think you are just wasting footage on this page by continuously deviating from one thing to the other.
Point is - tourists were brutalized and their vehicles were damaged. And now the associations, behaving as quasi government, have come up with a unanimous resolution to ban all private vehicles from driving inside Ladakh.
The roads inside Ladakh are built with national taxpayers money and not from the proceeds of donations from locals.

As far as protecting livelihood is concerned - First they all buy taxis on loan without studying its potential and viability. Then, to justify their business investment they want to impinge on the freedom of others and call it protection of livelihood. And to support their cause they resort to violence and illegal resolutions.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 26th July 2015 at 09:59.
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Old 26th July 2015, 10:24   #357
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Look at the dashcam video again carefully. (Surpising to observe that sound appears to have been suppressed). Between 00:45 and 01:05, 20 seconds, things move fast and it appears as though the elderly gent in the white cap has come between the white Gypsy and the vehicle with the dashcam, and then fallen or been pushed in front of the vehicle with the dashcam.
He was hit by the Gypsy not the Fortuner. If Ram pushes Mogambo, what can Lakhan do ? The Fortuner did wait for him to get up, if the intention was to hurt, it was just a clutch and accelerator pedal away.

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What would I do if I was somehow pushed in front of a vehicle revving to get out? Think about it carefully and then blame somebody for picking up a stone.
What would you do if someone picked up a larger than life stone to hit your windscreen and car to hurt you and your family? Revving, pushing and running. Exactly what the Fortuner did and mind you, he was very gentle. He accelerated like a missile only after everyone was out of the way, if he wanted to hurt, he could have put the pedal to the metal right when hooligans were destroying the car standing in front and endangering lives and Fortuner would have decimated most of them.

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There is another factor - while a private driving licence technically entitles us to drive all over India in a private car, some restrictions can be placed on border roads as well as roads specific to some purposes. A private driving licence does not entitle us to go wherever we want to - try and get into a bus lane on a BRT or try and enter the taxi lane at the airport or railway station, for example. Or try and enter high security areas?
Sorry boss, BRT, Taxi lane are different than Ladakh and Leh which has no such thing as restrictions on who and when you can drive. Some restrictions 'can' be placed, but are 'not' placed because they are un democratic. So currently on the ground, you can drive anywhere you want and people do so every year, year after year and will do so too year after year.

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Maybe the Ladakh taxi operators have a valid point - everybody and their nephews should not be permitted on every road in Ladakh, especially in over-powered vehicles. Let there be a rule that duly licenced, duly trained, duly certified and duly insured drivers will only be permitted to drive on certain roads. If private drivers do not meet these conditions, stringent and why not, then they can hire a driver from a pool of such locally duly licenced/certified/insured/trained options, who will be graded according to their skills and certifications for vehicles by engine and power sizes. Such drivers shall also have para-medical training, be aware of local search and rescue options and in general be more like beacons of responsiblity for their State and for India. In due course of time some of these drivers can be way better than the rally drivers we have in India.
Sorry, I disagree, when you have a driving Licence and have reached till Leh/Ladakh in a car driving yourself, you have more than enough skills to drive and I have been to Leh in a Swift from Mumbai, so I know what I am talking about. Don't make reaching Leh out to be like it was reaching top of Mount Everest or scaling Kilimanjaro. Any half decent driver can make it till Leh and I have seen lot of crashes of Alto's, SUV's of local drivers on the way to Leh too. It can happen to anyone.


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These hill drivers are assets. It is up to us to make things happen. Properly.
15 minutes on one of these roads behind the wheel and you will think you are an asset too. Its not a big deal.

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Instead, it appears that the system has saddled what could be amongst the best hill drivers in the country with huge debts, and now the system is forcing them on the roads.
What is best hill drivers man ? Is it a PHD qualification ? Some Degree they have achieved ? Anyone could drive in these hills and get familiar in less than a day, what is such a big deal in that ? And Debts is because of them buying taxis, its not our fault and neither is it the fault of the system. It was an informed calculated decision they took like every taxi guy does.
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Old 26th July 2015, 10:31   #358
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Since we are all talking finer points of legalities here, was the dashcam fitted a legal modification with permission and regulation of the local RTO where vehicle was registered? Think deeply before answering this question please. Especially if vehicle was being operated in Defence areas and ASI areas.
We are talking about the daylight gunda-gardi by some people in a specific region, who think only they will rule and nobody else, not even the government. They want to terrorize the tourists and also the locals into submitting to their atrocious demands because frankly they have nothing else to do. I am sure they have no employable skills, not even as drivers.

Now, what are YOU talking about?

The dashcam footage has revealed the ugly side of what was a dream for all of us. Your attitude seems to show that no matter if the locals in the video were lawless and downright murderous, the drivers and occupants must follow the law and also their illegal diktats? Just exactly what do you think these locals are doing?

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What is best hill drivers man ? Is it a PHD qualification ? Some Degree they have achieved ? Anyone could drive in these hills and get familiar in less than a day, what is such a big deal in that ?
Don't you know it involves special skills like yielding to other vehicles and driving on the wrong side of the road to yield, sometimes? I learnt that the other day. I was hoping to also read about honking on blind turns and a couple of other things, but I guess we didn't go that far.

Of course, I don't know if driving at 70kmph on blind hairpin bends qualifies as a skill or suicidal tendency - that is something we drivers from the plains sorely lack.

Last edited by Aditya : 27th July 2015 at 12:12. Reason: Typos
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Old 26th July 2015, 10:35   #359
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Very well summarized J.Ravi sir. Very true.

I was of the opinion this story was one sided and gave benefit of doubt to the taxi union, just owing to the fact that I had a very pleasant experience with Ladakh in entirety(2011 and 2014) and just couldn't swallow.

In last few hours, I have seen many responses of people of Ladakh in social media on response to discussions on this incident. None of them support the violence exhibited in the video. However, they too are of the opinion that private cars spoil nature by misusing the vehicles for off roading and what not.

To the people of Ladakh who have been watching this thread and defending the taxi union(not violence though):
1) Take some initiative to push authorities to put the offenders visible in the video behind bars?
2) Take initiative to stop this taxi union from checking documents and interfering with public as they have no right. If not, its as good as entire Ladakh collectively endorsing and supporting violence.
3) Let the private vehicles ply peacefully like before.

Restore sanity!

If the taxi union is left to its will, next in line:
- Target cars fitted with dashcam
- Target 'Team-bhp/other forums where discussions happened' stickered cars

Last edited by funkykar : 26th July 2015 at 10:38.
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Old 26th July 2015, 10:47   #360
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Go get your modifications regularised, if legally possible, at your RTO of registration and see what lessons you learn about legal rights before trying to teach others.
Appreciable as your sentiments are about illegal modifications, I fail to see how that has anything to do with the topic at hand. Care to enlighten the 'louts and boors', please?

I'd also love to hear your justification for the peaceful protesters throwing rocks INSIDE a vehicle that had kids in it (who had nothing to do with the alleged incidents), after they'd registered their protest with the boorish driver by smashing up his car.

Humble request not to run off on another tangent is implied. Thank you.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 26th July 2015 at 10:54.
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