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Old 26th July 2015, 10:52   #361
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

No outside vehicle will be allowed to ply in Ladakh!

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Unfortunately the intention of stopping outside vehicles in the Ladakh doesn't look like step taken to protect the environment. They are just trying to legalize monopoly of the local taxi union.

If they are really serious about the environment then completely ban the petrol, diesels and kerosene fueled vehicles, generators, room heaters etc in first place. Ban luxury hotels which also produce dangerous level carbon footprints. Ban purchase of new petrol-diesel fueled vehicles in the region and promote govt operated electronic or CNG vehicles, that too in limited numbers. Concentrate establishing renewable energy sources for the electricity.

Completely ban the plastic and also ban taking any kind of food or drinking items in the vehicles. Ban any kind of commercial activities near point of interests. Problem of littering will be solved by taking this single measure. Those who can't tolerate hunger just don't visit the point of interests. But no, they won't do that because that will reduce number of tourists. Rather the locals established guest houses, cafeterias etc near sensitive locations like Pangong.

About rash or careless driving, I have driven in Kashmir and Himachal and I must say the many of the local taxi and personal car drivers are one of the worst who don't know anything about how to drive in hilly regions. They don't care about safety of their own, their co-passengers and others. You will rarely see anyone wearing seatbelt in the Himalayan region. First of all form and impose strictest of vehicle safety laws and fully ban the unsafe cheap, unsafe people movers.

Disappointing that these guys are trying to blackmail on the name of environment and safety whereas they themselves have ZERO concern about the environment and safety.

I have boycotted Ladakh in the current scenario. But I will be the first one to celebrate the full ban on outside vehicles if they take above steps and show some signs of serious regards about the environment protection.

Last edited by Aditya : 27th July 2015 at 12:13. Reason: Typos
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Old 26th July 2015, 10:54   #362
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
But hey, since it is easier to go to town on what appear to be people protesting about their livelihoods being snatched away by a bunch of out-of-towners, go for it!
Am I missing something? Is it not the out of towners who are providing them their livelihood? Have they not based their livelihood on the out of towners?

So they base their livelihoods on providing a service to the out of towners, and jack their rates up sky high. Some out of towners prefer to drive themselves which causes a loss of livelihood to the locals. So they protest by almost murdering a bunch of people and destroying 15 vehicles?

What kind of a protest is this? And we are going to town on them?

Stop beating around the bush with your certified hills drivers theories, and whether the dash cam was legal (nowhere in the world does it need to be certified by any RTO). Do you go to the RTO to get it certified when you plug a cell phone charger in to your 12v socket? The point is the Locals have messed up BIG time, and stupid excuses for it is not going to help. Now they will have to face the consequences for it.
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Old 26th July 2015, 11:13   #363
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Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
No -------snip-----afety.
He assures transporters.
Renowned the world over to be the messengers/saviours of the environment. Greenpeace was founded by them, but then they shifted to leh, where they saw that all was not well. A fumigation by smoke was necessary, which effort was hampered by the non smoking new fangled puc complying vehicles.
This is hilarious now.
I dont understand why the actual population of this place is not speaking up. The cabbies may be under the assumption that as it is they don't get business from self driven, or owned vehicles so no loss(good luck with that). But anybody who comes in in any manner will eat, and rent a room.

Leave these guys be. The impact of their boorishness and greed will take at most a season to be felt. Let the pie get smaller and the share remain the same. I have a feeling these cabbies will be the first to run away, mostly as defaulters.

That counter of cancelled trips is good idea. Maybe a poll should be added here. Cancelled v going.
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Old 26th July 2015, 11:27   #364
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Originally Posted by malq View Post
I'm looking at multiple photographs and posts here on this website itself - bull-bars, under-the-bonnet modifications, exterior modifications, added weights, added lights and horns, the whole nine yards. And while this website may have masked registration plates, such details are easily available at every checkpost and tollbooth which keep video records of every vehicle passing through.
I don't see how the Bull bars, cameras or any modifications lifted a finger to damage someone else's property or acted as a threat to somebody's life. On the contrary, seemingly a group of peace-loving people did pick up rocks and stones on probably a pretext of racial abuses.

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
...Wait for the next modified stud vehicle to be pulled over - there are hundreds on display here itself, with people bragging about where they are going, to make it easier....
What do you mean - "wait for the next vehicle to be pulled over", "to make it easier", easier for what? To find and kill somebody, because they choose to drive their own vehicles?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
... Go get your modifications regularized, if legally possible, ...
Err. I think it is the RTO officials prerogative to say such things, not you and me, there are people paid to do this job. To find such offenders and penalize them and not a group of goons who are ganging up making their own check-posts to harass people.

Anyways, how exactly are the modifications encroaching upon someone else's rights? which is what people are discussing in this thread.
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Old 26th July 2015, 11:44   #365
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

To the best of my knowledge - in India including J&K

# Damage to property, no hurt caused, non-cognizable offence.
# Attempt to murder by running vehicle, cognizable offence.
# Operating commercial motor vehicle without correct driving licence, MVA offence. (Not permit, driving licence)
# Operating motor vehicle which has been altered and is not as per homologation under which it was registered, throw the book.
# Operating omnibus (any motor vehicle designed to carry more than six persons + driver( as per MVA definitions (29) "omnibus" means any motor vehicle constructed or adapted to carry more than six persons excluding the driver); may need something more than a motor-car driving licence - private.

Anybody can take a photograph of a defaulting motor vehicle on a public road and file a Public Grievance online, as people are doing in Mumbai for incorrect registration plates, for example. Likewise in Ladakh. And there is no time-bar on these complaints.

Yes, I agree, why pick up stones when the keyboard is more powerful? But then, if somebody has just tried to run me over, then a stone is valid self-defence.
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Old 26th July 2015, 11:45   #366
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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Please avoid unnecessarily provocative statements like the ones made above. As you yourself said it, rightly:
.
Sorry, if it came out otherwise. But am saying again, I'm not against Ladakhis in general (for that matter none of us here are). The post was directed at the mafia trying to represent the whole population. These are not the real, simple, hardworking folks who are still simple and honest. The poor souls toiling for their basic survival still do not know what is happening around and will still help all who passes by. Self drive or otherwise.

But, these greedy mafia are something else. They have tasted easy money and now their greed has reached murderous proportions. And my ire was directed at the illegal way they are trampling on others rights and liberty like Hitler's cronies. And no matter what they say now, these mafia are not exactly Gandhiji's peace volunteers.

Last edited by wanderer4x4 : 26th July 2015 at 11:47.
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Old 26th July 2015, 12:01   #367
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
To the best of my knowledge - in India including J&K

# Damage to property, no hurt caused, non-cognizable offence.
# Attempt to murder by running vehicle, cognizable offence.
# Operating commercial motor vehicle without correct driving licence, MVA offence. (Not permit, driving licence)
# Operating motor vehicle which has been altered and is not as per homologation under which it was registered, throw the book.
# Operating omnibus (any motor vehicle designed to carry more than six persons + driver( as per MVA definitions (29) "omnibus" means any motor vehicle constructed or adapted to carry more than six persons excluding the driver); may need something more than a motor-car driving licence - private.

Anybody can take a photograph of a defaulting motor vehicle on a public road and file a Public Grievance online, as people are doing in Mumbai for incorrect registration plates, for example. Likewise in Ladakh. And there is no time-bar on these complaints.

Yes, I agree, why pick up stones when the keyboard is more powerful? But then, if somebody has just tried to run me over, then a stone is valid self-defence.
Dude, nothing gives me right to get physically violent with anyone in any given circumstances. Here, people are talking about the way those criminals behaved, and you are coming up with your own conspiracy theories and what not. Please take a break & think. How on the earth, vehicle modifications & stuff like these came into this picture?
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Old 26th July 2015, 12:02   #368
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Originally Posted by malq View Post
# Attempt to murder by running vehicle, cognizable offence.
How about attempt to murder by throwing rocks at people inside cars?


Quote:
# Operating commercial motor vehicle without correct driving licence, MVA offence. (Not permit, driving licence)
Self-drive rentals are driven with individual non-commercial driving licenses all over the world.

Quote:
if somebody has just tried to run me over, then a stone is valid self-defence.
And now that the gentleman's feelings have been hurt, I guess it's fair game to try and kill everyone in the offending vehicle? And surely, what better way to defend oneself from harm than lying down voluntarily in front of a vehicle and challenge the boor to run you over, while your fellow peace-lovers indulge in a little session of friendly projectile-throwing and automobile-toppling to amuse themselves? I'll admit freely that my limited intelligence didn't permit me to appreciate that aspect of self-preservation. Kudos are in order I guess.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 26th July 2015 at 12:06.
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Old 26th July 2015, 12:04   #369
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
... But then, if somebody has just tried to run me over, then a stone is valid self-defence.
From the video i see, i do not think the driver actually even attempted to run over any one. On the contrary again, the gentleman with the cap was pushed by possibly someone else or something else into the path of the Fortuner.

Also read the other post about this gentleman, so anyways looks like a modus-operandi to me rather than some peace-loving guy just stumbling in front of a car.

The driver has clearly stopped and started off only once the stone attack began, so the "running over" bit seems like a stretch to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Anybody can take a photograph of a defaulting motor vehicle on a public road and file a Public Grievance online, as people are doing in Mumbai for incorrect registration plates, for example. Likewise in Ladakh. And there is no time-bar on these complaints.
For all the laws you have mentioned being broken, let the police do their job. Did the police enforce the goons in the video to even stop a vehicle in the first place? I don't believe so.

Also, as you have mentioned, let the taxi group as well take pictures of all offending vehicles and pass it on to the authorities. Why stop the vehicles, taking law into their hands, pass resolutions and damage property and try to kill/ hurt people.

None of the members here are undermining the value of else's life or business. All that people want is freedom, to drive through in the vehicles of their choice.
Why can't the taxi mafia rather put their efforts into providing better value for the money people are paying.
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Old 26th July 2015, 12:05   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akki_5
I didn't drive because I am a human being. I revved the engine - the guy in the cap got up, picked up a huge rock, smashed it on the bonnet while the other fellows ensured to smash other windows to bits including the windshield
Please double check the video you have posted. You had not just revved the engine but moved the vehicle. Keeping a pole on the left side of the vehicle as the reference point, we can clearly identify the vehicle had moved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VineetSoni
Can anyone give answer to following questions. 1. Who has passed this law that private or rental cars are not allowed, government or taxi unions? 2. What is the meaning of negotiations, if it is the fine by government why can't I see any police official or proper check points in the video?
1. There is no law which forbids rental cars to be drived around in Ladakh. The "resolution" is just a statement made by the Taxi unions, and not enforceable.
2. Negotiations etc are between Taxi Union and the drivers in self driven cars. "Extortion" can be the ideal word to be used here. Because this is not any kind of scheme enforced by the government. It is vigilante justice.
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Old 26th July 2015, 12:06   #371
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
To the best of my knowledge - in India including J&K

# Damage to property, no hurt caused, non-cognizable offence.
# Attempt to murder by running vehicle, cognizable offence.
# Operating commercial motor vehicle without correct driving licence, MVA offence. (Not permit, driving licence)
# Operating motor vehicle which has been altered and is not as per homologation under which it was registered, throw the book.
# Operating omnibus (any motor vehicle designed to carry more than six persons + driver( as per MVA definitions (29) "omnibus" means any motor vehicle constructed or adapted to carry more than six persons excluding the driver); may need something more than a motor-car driving licence - private.


Anybody can take a photograph of a defaulting motor vehicle on a public road and file a Public Grievance online, as people are doing in Mumbai for incorrect registration plates, for example. Likewise in Ladakh. And there is no time-bar on these complaints.

Yes, I agree, why pick up stones when the keyboard is more powerful? But then, if somebody has just tried to run me over, then a stone is valid self-defence.
Wow, just wow. So you have imagined yourself, these offenses, which the Fortuner driver supposedly committed.

So all the murderous mob did was damage to property? Throwing rocks the size of human heads into the cars, onto people is just damage to property? Are human lives now defined as property? They almost pulled a person out of the Thar, had they pulled him out I'm sure he would have been beaten to death. 15 cars damaged, lakhs of rupees worth of losses.

And you say the Fortuner driver committed a crime?

1) Attempting to murder by running vehicle? Did you not see the video or are you turning a blind eye towards it? The man clearly lies down in front of the car to stop the vehicle from moving. He is lucky the Fortuner driver had the presence of mind to wait for the fool to get up, had it been another driver the person may actually have got injured.

Or according to you the audio of the dash cam is blanked out on purpose to hide something? Did the Fortuner try and commit murder by words? Did that anger the mob so much?

2) Commercial motor vehicle? Where? You talking about the cabbies in Ladakh not having commercial driving licenses for their taxis?

3) The vehicles which were attacked were bone stock. Were you present there noting down the modifications that you can say all this with such surety?

4) I have no clue what Omnibus you are talking about, and haven't you covered this in the second point?

Frankly now your posts are just amusing me, how a person can ignore the obvious and go on with his delusional thoughts.

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 26th July 2015 at 12:12.
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Old 26th July 2015, 12:09   #372
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

I would urge all the sane minds to ignore a few posts here, otherwise we may keep going in circles without gaining anything.

This news seems to have spread to almost all portals now. There are responses on their stories as it's easier to respond compared to tbhp. #saynotoladakh seems to be trending on fb/twitter. I hope they realise the mistake and keep the personal vehicle out of this mess.
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Old 26th July 2015, 12:19   #373
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

1) I don't see any reduction in tourism in Ladakh as yet. Other than on this website, nobody appears to have anything other than good words for the Ladakh taxi operators, and their business continues as before, is what I am told.

2) The person whose car was smashed up, did he file a formal police complaint, even after returning to his home. He can do that even from Delhi. Resident Commissioner's office.

3) For many of the others here blaming everything but their own unreal expectations of what they are entitled to on public roads shared by others, a Hindi saying "naach na jaane, aangan tedhaa" comes to mind.

4) I know of building societies and campuses fitting static dB meters to dissuade and then deny operation of extra loud vehicles and expect the same in Ladakh too where, yes, they can and will look under the bonnet for checking modifications as well as double check emissions.

5) Criminal investigations follow a chronological path. Let us assume that the crime started well before the vehicle reached the point where the vehicle's driver tried to run over the elderly man in the white cap? Self defence becomes even more important now.

Have a nice day. Responses based on facts would be appreciated. And do read up the MVA that you were supposed to know, especially Rules of the Road, if you have valid driving licences for the hopefully street legal vehicles you operate. Not vehicles that contravene not just Form 22A.
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Old 26th July 2015, 12:19   #374
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Please double check the video you have posted. You had not just revved the engine but moved the vehicle. Keeping a pole on the left side of the vehicle as the reference point, we can clearly identify the vehicle had moved.
I'd suggest you watch again too. The vehicle may have moved a bit due to the gradient of the terrain it was on, but if the driver actually INTENDED to move off without regard to who/what was in the way, he could've done that much before the first stone was thrown, or even refused to stop and move aside as directed, at all and just barged through. Did he?

The driver claims he waited for an opportunity before accelerating out of the spot, and the video corroborates his claim. Opinions may vary, of course, but if there's an intentional attempt to run someone over, it's not in the posted video. Additional (or rather any) evidence by the aggrieved party to corroborate his claim is welcome.

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
1) I don't see any reduction in tourism in Ladakh as yet. Other than on this website, nobody appears to have anything other than good words for the Ladakh taxi operators, and their business continues as before, is what I am told.
How I wish that would be true and we could all just go back to before this nonsense started. Wait & watch.

Quote:
2) The person whose car was smashed up, did he file a formal police complaint, even after returning to his home. He can do that even from Delhi. Resident Commissioner's office.
Sure, no big deal that the local police refused to do their jobs when approached. I'll refrain from commenting on the complainant's current legal position as I'm not aware of what his plans are.

Quote:
Let us assume that the crime started well before the vehicle reached the point where the vehicle's driver tried to run over the elderly man in the white cap? Self defence becomes even more important now.
I would love to see legal verbiage that says ganging up, systematically targeting and wilfully attacking people at multiple places counts as 'self defense'. Absurd doesn't even begin to cover your claims.

Quote:
Responses based on facts would be appreciated.
Funny you'd say that, when all you seem to indulge in is assumptions, name-calling, conjecture and hear-say.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 26th July 2015 at 13:18. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Please edit your post within the 30-min window to add content to your post.
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Old 26th July 2015, 12:31   #375
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This is my fourth year working in Ladakh and I can see the situation getting worse every year.

Ladakh is full of "Unions/Associations" - Taxi union, Transporters Union, Travel Agents union, Labor union etc. Taxi Wallas are just one of them and the culture of protectionism is getting from bad to worse.

I don't work in the tourism industry and I can confirm that Ladakhi business owners in my line of work are also being threatened by these unions/associations for treating "down wallas" at par with ladakhis. They have been told by the relevant associations to charge a higher rate to "down wallas".

End result is that I have to pay Rs. 120 for something that a Ladakhi gets for Rs. 100. I cannot use Trucks/Tippers owned by my company and registered in Srinagar for transportation of goods beyond Leh. I must take a truck through the transporters union and pay through the roof, but no such compulsion for the locals. I have to pay income tax on all my earnings from Ladakh, where as Ladaki's are exempt from it.

Their argument for all their actions is that they have a very short working/tourist season and they must protect their livelihood. But what livelihood will be left to protect when the tourists/down wallas, the source of all of their income, have to run away to save their lives?
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