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Old 26th July 2015, 14:27   #391
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
A quick question, gentlemen. The white gypsy was it part of the convoy? Because I did see that vehicle stopped a bit further ahead and starts moving as soon as the Fortuner has made his escape.
The Gypsy was indeed part of the convoy (refer post#296, page 20 of this thread), and it stopped and its occupants tried to intervene (one can see the car stopping and the passenger door opening slightly in the video before the Fortuner accelerates past it), but the Gypsy occupants were threatened to stay out of it.

Moreover, there is evidence that the lead car, a DL-registered CR-V that escaped this particular bunch unharmed was smashed up later (pic posted in post# 339, page 23 of this thread), which the Facebook poster was earlier trying to claim as proof of their non-violent intentions "we didn't do anything to that car, see we just wanted to talk". Now the CR-V didn't harm anybody on the video and neither are the locals claiming any wrongdoing on the CR-V's part (all I see claimed is the Fortuner driver's 'misdeeds'), so why did they smash the CR-V? For fun?

It's pretty evident now that these people are making stuff up as they go along, and despite repeated claims of having plenty of evidence, haven't produced a shred of it to corroborate their claims, yet.

All I see so far are inflammatory posts against 'outsiders', asking them to stay away if they don't like the 'local rules'.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 26th July 2015 at 14:35.
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Old 26th July 2015, 14:29   #392
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
The reality of this is not going to go away because some people think they can get away with flouting laws and then when stopped, try to misuse social media selectively.
Are you saying that Fortuner driver committed a crime for which he was stopped?
Secondly, from the video, I see that he started moving when the dashcam started shaking, i.e. people are hitting his car. With his family in car, I think anybody would panic.

Last but not the least, you are mixing issues.

Issue 1:
People offroad in lakes and rivers(including taxi drivers). Locals may not like it.
Issue 2:
Self drive rentals are a competition for taxis, and the union does not want them
Issue 3 : Vehicles were attacked, not just in this incident, but before also.


I am very surprised, that instead of condemning violence, people are somehow justifying the violence.
Thousands of people go to Ladakh every year, and some of them offroad in pangong Lake. Infact, in the picture, the Thar which is seen in Pangong lake has all its windows intact. Why wasn't that particular thar Attacked.

The reason is simple. When this issue blue up, the taxi union wanted to save its skin. So it came up with ecology angle.

Coming to ecology angle, the taxi union claims it has support of local administration. The local admin has the right to designate areas off limit for private and commercial vehicles. For example, you cannot camp at night on the banks of Pangong. You have to cross the road and camp. This is an enforced rule by forest department. They can make this rule for vehicles also. Isn't it simple.

Coming to competition, well competition means you have to adapt. Here also Taxi union could have go to their admin and asked for a tax on commercial out of state vehicles. Andhra does that, doesn't it? Why didn't they do that.

Last but not the least, about 3-4 people on social media have come up with justifications, and are trying to bring in "ecology" damage angle. There is no proof of the same for this convoy, just some random pictures. I can also post random pictures and videos of JK10 vehicles being bogged down in the sand banks of Pangong

Apart from these 3-4 people, nobody is coming forward. The reason is simple, this support is not widespread. Esp, in the villages, they only stand to lose if private vehicles stop coming. How many people in taxis even go to Hanle or Chushul etc.,
If Taxi union scares away private vehicles, Leh-Pangong-Nubra will flourish, and everything else will become even more isolated.
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Old 26th July 2015, 14:32   #393
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by malq
The statement made that an Army person did something to the elderly gent in white cap is also being re-confirmed, and if found false, will be taken further.
To be frank, Army has no business in this. So if Army people are getting into things which they should not be doing, then that has to be corrected then and there. But this being a border area, the Army generally plays a much larger role. In fact when I made the trip, right from Sri Nagar all the way to Leh if I did see a police man, it would most likely be the Military Police (M.P - in their red beret, or white helmet with a huge wireless set placed on their bullet motor cycles). Civil police presence was very much rare, in areas other than towns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DwarkaDelhiWala
Also its dangerous to go to Ladakh since Indian Penal Code does not apply there. If a criminal incident happens, Police are not going to help.
This is factually incorrect. There cannot be a penal code, which does not have provisions to save the life and property of a person. There would also not be provisions which says that Police need not take any action if non-locals are involved. There is no big difference between IPC and RPC (introduced by the Dogra Kings based on IPC written by the British). Here is a link which gives a comparison between RPC and IPC.
Differences between RPC & IPC

Last edited by Eddy : 26th July 2015 at 16:57. Reason: quoted post edited for off topic content.
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Old 26th July 2015, 14:39   #394
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
The local people know very well that their future in tourism lies more with environmentally sound tourism than with a few off-roaders tearing up the Nubra Valley. Next is what, people will want to drive their vehicles, rented or otherwise, at Valley of the Flowers or Nanda Devi sanctuary? Interesting to note how online videos of identifiable vehicles tearing up the Nubra dunes and the plants growing there are rapidly vanishing from youtube and elsewhere.

Certainly there are many beautiful, green, snowy places in India. Keep them that way. Keep those loud, over-powered and polluting motor vehicles out unless you have specific permissions.

And if stopped by a citizen's arrest in India, when there is no immediate danger, in broad daylight with multiple vehicles from the same group ahead and behind, then stop. Call the police. Don't try to run over the people who stopped you.
Using the defence of law after breaking it is very poor.

If environmentally sound tourism is what the people of Ladakh prefer, it is appreciated. Get it legislated and passed into law. Lay down fair rules for everyone to follow. Everyone will respect the people of Ladakh for it and other eco-sensitive tourist areas will try to emulate Ladakh region.


Just asking,

1)Trying to arrest and hold a citizen by attempting to harm them, is this legal?
2)If you were being stopped by a bunch of people whom you do-not know, on an unfamiliar road when travelling with a family, will you?
3)If those people try to snatch away the key, the only thing you know is a ticket out of the place in case things turn ugly, will you allow them?
4)Did those people (taxi drivers) identify themselves and make their intentions clear before their action?

What you are doing is trying justifying the actions of few greedy persons and vilifying the people who legitimately complain and call them names (off-roaders, boorish). This is very immature.

Think of just one thing, if any one member in the convoy had been critically injured what would have happened? It was plain luck that all of them from the convoy came back alive to their homes.

Every-time a family of tourists thinks about driving into Ladakh, this will be in the back of their minds..
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Old 26th July 2015, 14:41   #395
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
....Hmm.. Are'nt we insulting an entire region/community here by stating they are some how unclean when compared to people from the rest of India? How would you like it when some one calls every Delhi-ite, or Haryanvi a boorish and uncouth individual after reading about the road rage incidents, Khap Panchayat non-sense in New Delhi and Haryana areas?
Yes i agree that its insulting to an entire region. And yes, its wrong. But physically threatening one of our own brother with ladies and children, thousand of miles away in an isolated area without any regrets from anyone from that 'entire region/community' does justify it.
We are not wearing bangles like our politicians.

This so much god fearing community fails to see what happened to Nepal where the tourism trade was even more biased against Indian tourist. Do dozens of SUVs cause movement of tectonic plate pushing towards Himalayas?

Last edited by DwarkaDelhiWala : 26th July 2015 at 14:55.
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Old 26th July 2015, 15:03   #396
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
The local people know very well that their future in tourism lies more with environmentally sound tourism than with a few off-roaders tearing up the Nubra Valley. .....


And if stopped by a citizen's arrest in India, when there is no immediate danger, in broad daylight


Bottomline is this. India is free, but that does not mean we are free to wreck havoc in somebody else's backyard. Don't like the local people for whatever reason - don't come.

file one with the local authorities,

Wow! The way you draft your replies, without getting emotional at all, like a seasoned professional, is indeed appreciable!

But a few silly questions:

1) It seems to many of us, you know them much better than we do. Good. If anyone were to randomly check 50 taxis they own, for technically correct condition of tyres, how many would pass the check? Considering sub zero temperatures during the months of inactivity and brittle rubber? So, my fault: I am a little more knowledgeable and I wouldn't like to risk my life, so I travel in my own car, BUT, I still need to pay for a risky taxi. So, you vouch for the safety of the taxis. Good.

2) If I were to randomly check ANY JK10 taxi for emissions: how many would pass? Please do not say "none of the taxis anywhere, do" because then, the other taxis aren't crying hoarse over the "fragile ecology" they are protecting!

3) What "citizens arrest": Whatever makes you think it's valid? From Wiki :

"A citizen's arrest is an arrest made by a person who is not acting as a sworn law-enforcement official. In common law jurisdictions, the practice dates back to medieval England and the English common law, in which sheriffs encouraged ordinary citizens to help apprehend law breakers."

I understand the medieval part: quite apt, I clearly see the encouragement part.....but where are the law breakers??? Please!

4) What local authority? The local police were mute spectators, and the higher ups will feign ignorance: those with even higher pay grade and decisive, are unapproachable! When simple complaints like a "lost" wallet cannot be registered, you expect "domestic" tourists to lodge complaints against the malpractice in which they hold fairly high stakes?

Everything said, there is much more disposable cash with the aam Indian these days, especially after pay commission recommendations. Gentle extortion in the form of fancy rates for everything touristy, is accepted to be acceptable. Pachranga achar in every NCR dhaba: 60 percent pricier...I still buy it! Happens even in EU.

Bodily harm...is out of the question. That's what this protest is about malq!

Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 26th July 2015 at 15:13.
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Old 26th July 2015, 15:05   #397
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
The local people know very well that their future in tourism lies more with environmentally sound tourism than with a few off-roaders tearing up the Nubra Valley. Next is what, people will want to drive their vehicles, rented or otherwise, at Valley of the Flowers or Nanda Devi sanctuary? Interesting to note how online videos of identifiable vehicles tearing up the Nubra dunes and the plants growing there are rapidly vanishing from youtube and elsewhere.
I am with you brother, nobody should be allowed to destroy whats left of our beautiful nature. No tourist, in a private car or a taxi, foreigner or Indian, nobody should be allowed to destroy our nature.

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
Everything is documented - which private property or state/national forests people and their vehicles entered, parked in, set up tents and over-nighted without permissions, and then left documented garbage behind.
Where is it documented? Please name and shame !


Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Certainly there are many beautiful, green, snowy places in India. Keep them that way. Keep those loud, over-powered and polluting motor vehicles out unless you have specific permissions.
Over here also I agree with you somewhat. And anyone who breaks any laws must be punished. But did the family in that fortuner break any laws?

Instead of intimidating and threatening the tourists and their children, the people of Ladakh should protest and represent their case in front of the authorities.

It is the government's job to regulate access to eco sensitive areas and this has to be done in a proper and well thought out/researched manner.

How is stopping a car with women and children inside, throwing huge rocks at them, going to help the cause of the environment?


Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
And if stopped by a citizen's arrest in India, when there is no immediate danger, in broad daylight with multiple vehicles from the same group ahead and behind, then stop. Call the police. Don't try to run over the people who stopped you.
Brother, this mentality of yours of citizens arrest being justified in this case is not right.

Since you are so passionately trying to justify a mob action like this, please tell me this - according to you what was the crime committed by the family in that Fortuner that would justify a citizen's arrest? Don't quote any rhetoric or other imaginative instances. Be to the point about this instance -
What crime was committed by this family that would justify a citizen's arrest and being stopped in the first place?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Bottomline is this. India is free, but that does not mean we are free to wreck havoc in somebody else's backyard. Don't like the local people for whatever reason - don't come.
Nobody has the right to destroy the nature of our country. It is not ours to destroy, it belongs to the entire world, the whole world is one big family. It also belongs to our future generations, they are the ones who will be living with the consequences of our actions. If people of Ladakh feel so strongly about the nature getting destroyed, they really must press the authorities to frame the rules of access, besides doing other things to protect the nature. and Culprits must be punished - as per law - not mob justice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
As far as the taximen's union is concerned, their website shows the rates chargeable, and the web is full of people appreciating their services. If anybody has a complaint, file one with the local authorities, don't try and run over the local population.
Look who is talking about taking matters up with the authorities Ha Ha

Heights of hypocrisy.
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Old 26th July 2015, 15:45   #398
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Let us start with the title of this forum posting - who has decided that a taxi union is a "mafia"?


Next - why would I bother to answer immature people who demand answers and then also get down to calling me names?

Citizen's arrest is Section 43 of the CrPC, IPC, which is based on codification of the Ranbir Penal Code, if I am not mistaken.

Fourth, fact remains, uni-directional misuse of social media is always suspect. Luckily, social media does not go beyond a few people on a screen here. Look outside, Ladakh is doing just fine without some people, mostly anonymous handles, threatening to boycott it.

Have a nice day.

Last edited by Eddy : 26th July 2015 at 16:55. Reason: Please use the contact us / report post functionalities for requesting moderator action.
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Old 26th July 2015, 15:45   #399
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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Originally Posted by DwarkaDelhiWala View Post
We are not wearing bangles like our politicians.
I presume you have made this statement meaning to imply that "You are not a coward like Politicians" (cause that is how your statement will be generally interpreted). Wearing bangles or people who wear bangles are not cowards. Just look up our Freedom struggle or the internet for real life examples of women showing more courage than men. Sorry mods if I have run off topic with this comment.

Coming back to the topic, India does possess people who are passionate about driving. But they are a minority. In the case of Leh and surrounding region, passionate drivers fortunately encompass a sizable portion of the tourists. Now perhaps the hotel and restaurant owners may not feel the pinch of it but given time they will come to the realization that their revenue is way low when compared to the Taxi owners. After all it is their business that got lost by the actions of the union.

Speaking about the video, it is clear that the taxi guys had attacked a vehicle ruthlessly (whether provoked or not). Even if there provocation by the driver, there is nothing in the rule book or the moral code to warrant such an attack. And of course if I have my family with me and there is a group of violent men surrounding my car and holding me hostage, my priority is to get the hell outta there regardless of consequences. The driver has exhibited tremendous calmness in not making a road kill.

I am not asking anyone to believe the words of the driver and other aggrieved parties on the basis of this video. But let us NOT discount the terrible ordeal that they went through (along with their families) due to lack of audio or other flimsy reason.

We may never know the full tale of what transpired there. But on the basis of the video corroborated by the various bans that they have passed and the general animosity towards self-drivers, we can make a fairly accurate assessment of what had happened.

Last edited by r.praveen : 26th July 2015 at 15:48.
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Old 26th July 2015, 15:49   #400
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I am not sure why these hooligans have not been arrested till now? There is also video evidence in addition to the visible damage that was done to the vehicles. I am happy that things did not turn worse, in panic driver could have mowed down few people - thank god that didn't happen else these tourists would have been in deeper trouble.

Most of Malq's arguments seem lame. He is trying to somehow justify organized act of terror, which isn't making any sense.
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Old 26th July 2015, 15:49   #401
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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
So if you notice, it is not a slight movement or revving up of the engine. The vehicle seems to have moved at least 4-5 feet, but I guess the driver could not move further ahead because the Satyagrahi is lying down.
Slightly OT, but it is hardly a couple of feet towards right at the max. You should reference both sides while calculating the movement. Since the vehicle is moving right, the objects on the left side seems to move more. In this case, the sign board on the right seems to move in opposite direction.
Even if we agree for 4-5 feet, it is only after the attacks (vibrations on screen), the vehicle has moved. There is no provocation from the driver side and he has stopped as soon as the sathagrahi makes his peaceful act of satyagraha. It wouldn't be fair to blame the driver for this movement when he has his kids in the car. I could never say what I would have done in this situation.
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Old 26th July 2015, 16:04   #402
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why would I bother to answer immature people who demand answers and then also get down to calling me names? That lot is best ignored, example, kk21.
When you are uncomfirtable with any post then you chose not to bother answering it? Kk21 raised valid points and your justification awaited.

Also waiting for your reply against the question raised by mayankk if you are associated with local taxi business in Laddakh?
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Old 26th July 2015, 16:13   #403
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Originally Posted by malq View Post

Please fix that, if possible, or remain in the realm of pre-judgement of guilt.

Citizen's arrest is Section 43 of the CrPC, IPC, which is based on codification of the Ranbir Penal Code, if I am not mistaken.
The earlier questions have been badged. Fair enough. Who called you names, please? If it was me, I apologize! But the answers would still be welcome.

Please use the report feature, to notify the moderators, if not already done. IMHO, you are pre-judging too, and without the evidence suggested earlier. Nothing has surfaced as yet, with or without audio mute. I stand corrected, if it's otherwise.

Section 43 CrPC :

"Any private person may arrest or cause to be arrested any person who in his presence commits a non- bailable and cognizable offence, or any proclaimed offender, and, without unnecessary delay, shall make over or cause to be made over any person so arrested to a police officer, or, in the absence of a police officer, take such person or cause him to be taken in custody to the nearest police station."

Unable to comprehend, which was the "cognizable" offence according to law? Is even the constitution valid?

Furthermore, if the locals were as empowered, they should have called the police themselves, no? It is like trying to shield their guilt!

Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 26th July 2015 at 16:16.
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Old 26th July 2015, 16:20   #404
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Originally Posted by malq View Post
Let us start with the title of this forum posting - who has decided that a taxi union is a "mafia"? Where are the moderators on this, if they have pre-decided that one party is clean as the driven snow and the other is already a "mafia"?

Please fix that, if possible, or remain in the realm of pre-judgement of guilt.
Hasn't the union ganged up on self drives and passed a resolution which is available for everybody to see? What do call a gang trying to prevent competition? Isn't it criminal to try and curb competition unlawfully? Hence the reference to Mafia!

The resolution was passed way before this incident occurred. So what prompted the union to pass this seemingly one-sided resolution?

You also seem to be conveniently bending your own statements with each argument thrown at you.

For each and every alibi the union supporters have presented, i.e. environment, rash driving, etc. does any one have any sort of corroborative evidence linking such activities only to self drives? These self drive cars are way more modern/ well-maintained/ newer as compared to the taxis operated by the union. Again, it is up to the authorities to decide, what is to be banned. Not any self appointed saviors of the region.
How to you expect someone being attacked/ unlawfully being stopped to wait and seek shelter with the authorities?

If the union is so concerned about the environment, why don't they focus their energies towards preventing people from littering rather than display barbarism. Why would one, when there is no financial gain to be seen from this, isn't it?

I believe what i see, the OP currently seems to have presented enough for me, to see that the guys who accosted the Fortuner group were not right.
If you feel we are not being shown the entire story/ we are in the dark about a lot of other issues that you are trying to stress upon, please present some details/ proof of what you are trying to establish.
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Old 26th July 2015, 16:25   #405
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Dear MalQ,

Many thanks for the afternoon entertainment!

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
I have friends in the tourism business, summers Ladakh, winters Goa. From them I hear - we don't want such boorish tourists. The lot here don't want to go to Ladakh anymore. Seems like a fit to me. Both will survive without each other.
Wait a minute - did you just slander ALL Team-BHPians? I'll assume you just meant BHPians - but seriously, how can you just label ALL of us that way? Without any damn proof of our "boorish"-ness? How many do you know extensively? Are you building castles in thin air here?

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Damage to property is one thing. Trying to endanger another person's life by trying to run over him is something else. That answers the dashcam footage, shown so far, and obviously just a very short clip of something much longer.
Again, you ignore the clinical dissection by outofthebox which quoted your post. Any response to that? Why did you not voice your doubts (like sachinpk did) - instead you ignored it and continued your pre-set story?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
Anyways, as I said, wait for more videos to surface. Everybody has digital cameras. And the sound may not be muted this time around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Don't be surprised when more footage surfaces from outside the vehicle too.
I am impressed with your confidence. Are you connected to the ALTOA in any way? What makes you so sure that there's another version of events which is drastically different?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
Would be interesting to find out how many people here going on and on about their rights and legal technicalities of taking self-drive rentals into other States as well as not following common courtesies of abiding by local customs and regulations in other States of India will subject their vehicles to voluntary inspection for technical modifications not allowed by law in India?

Ladakh and for that matter other parts of India will not miss louts and boors, that's for sure, driving or riding up in the guise of "tourism". Wait for the next modified stud vehicle to be pulled over - there are hundreds on display here itself, with people bragging about where they are going, to make it easier.
This is an absolute scorcher. Kudos Sir.

You ran out of points to respond and therefore resort to stereotyping ALL of Team-BHP as a bunch of louts with illegal modifications and loud exhausts and what not.
  • Have you ever been to a TeamBHP meet?
  • How many BHPians have you met?
  • How many BHPians have you met who have driven to Ladakh?
And that zoomcar had some illegal modifications? That checkpoint was the "anti bull bar brigade"? Is that why that car was stopped? They wanted the keys to a vehicle with a family inside so that they could remove the bullbar, check for exhaust mods and suchlike stuff inside the bonnet? LOL. I don't recall seeing zoomcars with such mods. Have you?

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Originally Posted by malq View Post
Since we are all talking finer points of legalities here, was the dashcam fitted a legal modification with permission and regulation of the local RTO where vehicle was registered? Think deeply before answering this question please. Especially if vehicle was being operated in Defence areas and ASI areas.
I like how you throw up another strawman here to portray these folks as being law breakers. Good creativity in cooking up this diversion sir.

Please feel free to quote the RPC (the way you categorized the offences in another post) but in this case, here's my commonsense response - the recording does not capture anything which was not unseen by people when they were driving on that road (just as much as by other tourists when they click pictures on that road).

Its no difference from a handycam that is being carried by hand by a passenger - please tell me where the MVA requires to include it as a vehicle modification. Again, people have been making videos of their travel on these roads for years - many TV shows have been shot as well.

If there's a road meant only defence - civilians aren't permitted on those roads in the first place. I understand there are many like that in Ladakh. In that case yes, there may be some issue - in this case, I'm afraid your argument whilst creative is at a dead end here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Now, to facts - there were 5 private unregistered "off-roading" groups in and around Ladakh around that time, reportedly carrying a mix of paying passengers as well as self-operators, mid July'15, all are apparently being looked into for adherences to State and National laws. People in off-roaders can not just go anywhere, private or public, and do what they want. That includes the Nubra dunes. Especially.
Great - source? Very good - but how is it related to this incident?

Please tell us exactly what was the issue with THIS set of cars which was attacked? Can you also give a convincing logic why EVERY car in this convoy was attacked - was everyone off-roading in ecologically sensitive areas? Do you have documentary proof?

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The concept of a "citizen's arrest" when a crime has been suspected to have been committed or has been committed is an established point in Indian law. If anybody holds a fleeing criminal till the law arrives, that person is not held culpable of a crime, which in my estimation is what the taxi-drivers were doing. The stones came out as a defence, reasonable or otherwise is not for us to decide, only after the suspects tried to flee despite being stopped in a public place in broad daylight.

The reality of this is not going to go away because some people think they can get away with flouting laws and then when stopped, try to misuse social media selectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
And if stopped by a citizen's arrest in India, when there is no immediate danger, in broad daylight with multiple vehicles from the same group ahead and behind, then stop. Call the police. Don't try to run over the people who stopped you.
This is incredible. What was the LAW that was broken here -driving on the road in contravention of an non-legal resolution? Care to share that?

I for one agree with others that the Fortuner driver was very restrained in his driving - had he given the keys, he would've been thrashed in broad daylight only, in most likelihood.

Please share with us stories of your citizen's arrest(s). I do not know of such issues working out well in most cases - please educate us. It often degenerates into
mob justice.

Would you advise your children to hand over the keys if they were stopped on the road by a bunch of "citizens" just like that? Have you ever done that yourself, with your family in the car?


There wasn't a conversation or a negotiation - just an attempt to grab the key. Again, power to you if you will submit yourself to such citizen arrests - most of the folks, whether on or off this forum, will not.

PS to others: This post contains significant sarcasm, lest someone confuse that!
PPS: While you're following up on all these technicalities - here are some videos for you to digest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...e-QHyL1U#t=372
(Silly taxi driver + sillier tourists encouraging it - jail both please!)

Last edited by phamilyman : 26th July 2015 at 16:28.
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