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Old 26th July 2015, 16:30   #406
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli View Post
Section 43 CrPC :

"Any private person may arrest or cause to be arrested any person who in his presence commits a non- bailable and cognizable offence, or any proclaimed offender, and, without unnecessary delay, shall make over or cause to be made over any person so arrested to a police officer, or, in the absence of a police officer, take such person or cause him to be taken in custody to the nearest police station."
In the context of the attack, the wording in Section 43 in his presence commits an offence , becomes important. What offence was committed by the Fortuner driver in front of those people that stopped the car at Karu ? None, going by the video footage.

Even if one assumes that the convoy thrashed up a local at Pangong, that was not committed in front of those stopping the vehicle at Karu. From a purely legal standpoint , section 43 and citizens arrest simply doesn't apply here.

Btw , I found this post on the net on the "high altitude taxi mafia".

Last edited by sdp1975 : 26th July 2015 at 16:40.
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Old 26th July 2015, 16:32   #407
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Everything is documented - which private property or state/national forests people and their vehicles entered, parked in, set up tents and over-nighted without permissions, and then left documented garbage behind.

Certainly there are many beautiful, green, snowy places in India. Keep them that way. Keep those loud, over-powered and polluting motor vehicles out unless you have specific permissions.

And if stopped by a citizen's arrest in India, when there is no immediate danger, in broad daylight with multiple vehicles from the same group ahead and behind, then stop. Call the police. Don't try to run over the people who stopped you.

As far as the taximen's union is concerned, their website shows the rates chargeable, and the web is full of people appreciating their services. If anybody has a complaint, file one with the local authorities, don't try and run over the local population.
Wow, what a post! By all means, gather your proof and go to the court with it to stop whatever you think is wrong - but I think that would test your patience, so why not pick up a few stones and smash someone's car till then?

Please also publish details of how many local taxis in Leh Ladakh operate on diesel and are over eight years old? How many hold a valid PuC? How many of those taxis violate your so called local laws? Or maybe in your version of the MVA the locals can flout the law?

This incident is not citizen's arrest, it's goonda raj in daylight. Why didn't the locals approach the police? I am sure the local police would be more than willing to intervene if any laws were being broken - by the tourists, I mean. They obviously understand your MVA where locals can damage the local environment and outsiders' property.

If you, as a local, have any complaints dear sir, YOU file them with the police instead of acting as the police. Do you even get how hypocritical your arguments sound?
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Old 26th July 2015, 16:35   #408
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Guys please stop dignifying Malq's posts with a response. I too tried to understand what he was talking about, but he will go on with his points no matter what you say to counter him.

This is what we call trolling, and is similar to that chap in the facebook thread posted here who went on justifying the attacks with silly reasons.

I've already replied thrice, and got no clarifications. I would request you to ignore his comments.
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Old 26th July 2015, 16:42   #409
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I have to say, the way this thread is going, it is starting to veer offtopic completely & further, the baseless insinuations are just tarnishing it & pushing it off course further. This very long post is my humble effort to steer it back to the actual purpose.

I shall try to respond to the posts by Malq as best i can so that this pointless part of the discussion is finally put to a stop.

Before i do, let me honestly state that i have been trying my best to refrain from posting on this thread & responding to the, how do i put it, pointless? slew of posts but i think its time to address them for the good of the thread. May i also disclose, i know the people from the convoy just so that its out there.

Finally, before beginning, i would like to state that it has come to my attention that our dear member is elderly (50+) & has absolutely no connection to this incident since he is not a local from the region or a tourist who has gone there in the near past & nor was part of the convoy or the agitation that is now ensuing in the region. Though i assure you who is reading this that i dont enjoy singling out a fellow member, that too someone who is elder to me (hence, i shall here onwards, relate to him as Sir out of respect), the fact that he/she is strongly disrupting this thread with absolutely no clear reason is forcing me to do so. Moderators, please take note.

And, we shall begin,
Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Fact - A vast variety of local laws impacting road transport makes it difficult to be in adherence at all times, so matters have reached regular extortion levels in many places.

Fact - Local taxi operators will always be hand in glove with the local law enforcement authorities, very often ownership is controlled by the "authorities".
So you agree about the extortion & local authorities being hand in glove. Also, you Sir, yourself mention it as a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Fact - Many city drivers in over-powered cars and bikes do not have the faintest clue of what 200% safe driving means. 100% for themselves and 100% for other road users.
Sir, that is quite a sweeping generalisation. Also, please define “over-powered”

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Fact - Loans for taxies have become extremely easy making it very easy for people to fall into horrendous debt traps.
So because loans are easier, it is forced onto the general populace everywhere to take the loan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
I used to really enjoy driving all over the country.
Now, I watch and wait, meanwhile I travel by train and then hire a local vehicle. Pity there is no train to Ladakh.
Ah, so you dont drive all over the country, but seeing from your posts on this particular thread, everyone who does drive to any other place apart from their own state, requires to be taught about the law about it from you. Makes a lot of sense Sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Look at the dashcam video again carefully. (Surpising to observe that sound appears to have been suppressed).
Already answered multiple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Between 00:45 and 01:05, 20 seconds, things move fast and it appears as though the elderly gent in the white cap has come between the white Gypsy and the vehicle with the dashcam, and then fallen or been pushed in front of the vehicle with the dashcam.
I guess, this was also part of the “criminal suspect” (according to you) fortuner driver’s masterplan which involved putting his own family in danger & whilst having kids onboard the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
There is another factor - while a private driving licence technically entitles us to drive all over India in a private car, some restrictions can be placed on border roads as well as roads specific to some purposes. A private driving licence does not entitle us to go wherever we want to - try and get into a bus lane on a BRT or try and enter the taxi lane at the airport or railway station, for example. Or try and enter high security areas?
Ah, so the “can” is assumed as already in place. Sir, nobody went “wherever we want to”.
Also, nobody tried to “enter high security areas”
Everything was done according to law, local or otherwise, and with necessary documents, permits & stopping at every checkpoint & abiding by the laws & local authorities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Maybe the Ladakh taxi operators have a valid point - everybody and their nephews should not be permitted on every road in Ladakh, especially in over-powered vehicles. Let there be a rule that duly licenced, duly trained, duly certified and duly insured drivers will only be permitted to drive on certain roads. If private drivers do not meet these conditions, stringent and why not, then they can hire a driver from a pool of such locally duly licenced/certified/insured/trained options, who will be graded according to their skills and certifications for vehicles by engine and power sizes. Such drivers shall also have para-medical training, be aware of local search and rescue options and in general be more like beacons of responsiblity for their State and for India. In due course of time some of these drivers can be way better than the rally drivers we have in India.
Sir, since in most of your posts, you stick with facts & realities:
“Should” not be permitted.
“Over-powered” - once again, i wonder about the definition
“Let there be a rule” - Ah, i see your tendency is to be similar to the Taxi-Union. But what about all the facts, realities & all the law that you have been preaching on this thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
After all, how many of us who have driven on those roads do not have a story of being helped or rescued? I do. And mine goes back to 1974. So I am personally grateful for the help from the hardy road warriors of Ladakh/J&K and HP, just to name two parts of India.
Sir, let me assure you that we are not talking about all of humanity here. We are talking about the people who did what they did in this particular incident.
Further, let me also add that there are also more stories cropping up about others being harassed & physical violence by said taxi operators who are locals in more cases including Bikes & personal cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
I hope this is resolved soon.
Alas, everyone agrees with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Get real with realities. Who tried to drive over the old man with the white cap who fell in front of the dashcam footage FIRST??
Once again, already been replied multiple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Local people have to get first priority. Everywhere. Outsiders are welcome to take their tourism elsewhere if that is how it evolves.
Sir, who are you talking to? And what about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
I have friends in the tourism business, summers Ladakh, winters Goa. From them I hear - we don't want such boorish tourists. The lot here don't want to go to Ladakh anymore. Seems like a fit to me. Both will survive without each other.
Yes Sir, so may we know why you are trying to get in the middle of this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Damage to property is one thing. Trying to endanger another person's life by trying to run over him is something else.
Your words sir. But doesnt the same also apply to the occupants of the vehicle whose lives were endangered including small children?
What if you & your little children were the occupants?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Don't be surprised when more footage surfaces from outside the vehicle too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Anyways, as I said, wait for more videos to surface. Everybody has digital cameras. And the sound may not be muted this time around.
Sir, everyone awaits the same. I wonder what people with said footage are waiting for. We all await eagerly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
1) The "we won't come to Ladakh again" refrain has run out of breath, since it sounded more like a baby saying "I am going to hold my breath". Who cares if a few dozen people come by road or not? Your loss, not theirs, and certainly the environment will benefit.
Yes sir. Few dozen. I think, going by the people posting on this thread alone, let alone the people reading it, we may have crossed those numbers. But what difference does it make to you Sir? You are not planning on going to Leh by road, nor are you a resident there to whom it will make any difference. Your comfortable either ways.
And by your logic, environment will benefit by people not going to different places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
But hey, since it is easier to go to town on what appear to be people protesting about their livelihoods being snatched away by a bunch of out-of-towners, go for it!
Ah yes, they were “protesting”
Ah yes, they entire purpose for anyone to go there is to snatch livelihoods from the locals & travel, eat, drink, stay & make merry for free without paying anyone anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Ladakh and for that matter other parts of India will not miss louts and boors, that's for sure, driving or riding up in the guise of "tourism".
Ah yes, thank you for the personal remarks made on the “tourists” and the convoy of people who were attacked & had to go through this ordeal. Because you personally know each of the people who were/are travelling to the region. But yes, thank you for the compliments Sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Since we are all talking finer points of legalities here, was the dashcam fitted a legal modification with permission and regulation of the local RTO where vehicle was registered? Think deeply before answering this question please. Especially if vehicle was being operated in Defence areas and ASI areas.
Sir, to this, i only have the following pictures & links to answer your question including a quote from you:
"Heartily suggest dashcams of any brand as essential equipment in this day & age"
Also, if not for the dashcam, which was used as a safety precuation & to record the beautiful drive, there would have been no proof of the incident.
Links:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post3308214
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post3280053
Pictures:
Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!-1.jpg
Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!-2.jpg
Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!-3.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Yes, I agree, why pick up stones when the keyboard is more powerful? But then, if somebody has just tried to run me over, then a stone is valid self-defence.
Yes sir. Absolutely. Its alright if (in said hypothetical situation) you are the one unlawfully stopping a vehicle with a family & with children, to throw stones at all occupants rather than get the driver who, hypothetically, tried to run you over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
I don't see any reduction in tourism in Ladakh as yet. Other than on this website, nobody appears to have anything other than good words for the Ladakh taxi operators, and their business continues as before, is what I am told.
Ah, so you sir, are in touch with the Taxi-Mafia? Perhaps you could mediate this whole issue & do your country & countrymen a huge favour.
Also, what happened to:
“Fact - A vast variety of local laws impacting road transport makes it difficult to be in adherence at all times, so matters have reached regular extortion levels in many places.

Fact - Local taxi operators will always be hand in glove with the local law enforcement authorities, very often ownership is controlled by the "authorities".”
As i already mentioned:
Further, let me also add that there are also more stories cropping up about others being harassed & physical violence by said taxi operators who are locals in more cases including Bikes & personal cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Criminal investigations follow a chronological path. Let us assume that the crime started well before the vehicle reached the point where the vehicle's driver tried to run over the elderly man in the white cap? Self defence becomes even more important now.
Have a nice day. Responses based on facts would be appreciated.
Absolutely Sir, lets just “assume” that those “louts” were the perpetrators & were fleeing some criminal activity conducted by them, along with family & children & then request that responses be based on “facts”.
Also, thank you for the courtesy, you too Sir, have a nice day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
The statement made that an Army person did something to the elderly gent in white cap is also being re-confirmed, and if found false, will be taken further. Message in this set, go look it up.
Ah, so you sir, are of some post who is looking into this?
Please let us know Sir, perhaps you could help us also if you are from some government institution which can help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
The concept of a "citizen's arrest" when a crime has been suspected to have been committed or has been committed is an established point in Indian law. If anybody holds a fleeing criminal till the law arrives, that person is not held culpable of a crime, which in my estimation is what the taxi-drivers were doing. The stones came out as a defence, reasonable or otherwise is not for us to decide, only after the suspects tried to flee despite being stopped in a public place in broad daylight.
Ah, so it is finally out there. You know everything that happened & the convoy was a bunch of fleeing “criminals” with families in tow. Please elaborate on this point Sir.
Although i respect my elders sir, may i say, this is a highly foolish statement to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
The reality of this is not going to go away because some people think they can get away with flouting laws and then when stopped, try to misuse social media selectively.
Absolutely Sir. Imperative words being “The reality of this is not going to go away”
Only, i would like to say, because some people think that they can sit behind a screen & self-appoint themselves as an authority of absolutely nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Next is what, people will want to drive their vehicles, rented or otherwise, at Valley of the Flowers or Nanda Devi sanctuary? Interesting to note how online videos of identifiable vehicles tearing up the Nubra dunes and the plants growing there are rapidly vanishing from youtube and elsewhere.
Sir, no one in their right minds would want to destroy the Valley of Flowers or any sanctuary for that matter.
Ah, so now there are plants growing in the dunes! Somebody please forward this to places like Dubai, such advancements are not to be kept hidden.
Also, we have the power to censor the Internet now! Man, if only we knew this before!
Further Sir, you yourself look forward to rural sections & challenging crossings, so i wonder how you have made the assumption that offroading equals to disobeying laws, destroying the environment & other such misconceptions & baseless rumours.
Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!-driving-through.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Everything is documented - which private property or state/national forests people and their vehicles entered, parked in, set up tents and over-nighted without permissions, and then left documented garbage behind.
Fantastic. Now may i know if these were the same people who were attacked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Certainly there are many beautiful, green, snowy places in India. Keep them that way. Keep those loud, over-powered and polluting motor vehicles out unless you have specific permissions.
But your Honor, we had specific permissions, just like any other tourist who visits a region with Military presence. (Ignoring the over-powered & polluting vehicles to which there are multiple replies)

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
And if stopped by a citizen's arrest in India, when there is no immediate danger, in broad daylight with multiple vehicles from the same group ahead and behind, then stop. Call the police. Don't try to run over the people who stopped you.
Ah, once again, the convoy was full of criminals, it was a citizen’s arrest, the people were tried to be run over & the best of all, there was no immediate danger.
Like i mentioned earlier sir, i really do respect my elders, but perhaps its time for your meds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
Bottomline is this. India is free, but that does not mean we are free to wreck havoc in somebody else's backyard. Don't like the local people for whatever reason - don't come.
Absolutely agreed sir, looks like you did take your meds.
May i ask though Sir, whom you are telling not to come? And why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malq View Post
As far as the taximen's union is concerned, their website shows the rates chargeable, and the web is full of people appreciating their services. If anybody has a complaint, file one with the local authorities, don't try and run over the local population.
Ah, you did not have your meds. I shall leave this post with some last few paragraphs before i go & get some water for those.

I think everything must be crystal clear by now. Fellow members & moderators, it is a humble request, please ignore Sir “Malq” posts & do not entertain him further with replies to his posts. This shall help calming & eventually logic prevailing on this thread & help steer it back to what it was originally intended for.
Also, i sincerely do apologize for being rude at places but believe me, the words have been used with great restraint. Once again, i do apologize.

At this time, i would once again, like to add, the entire purpose of this thread & all the online activity is to
Bring about awareness of the misdeeds happening in the region with our incident as an example

I also would like to repeat:
We are absolutely NOT against the general populace of Leh Ladakh
What we are horrified with IS the incident that happened to us in Leh Ladakh which we would have never imagined.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
If there is any proof, bring it up, like Ashnd did, else stop trolling the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamkapilb View Post
Most of Malq's arguments seem lame. He is trying to somehow justify organized act of terror, which isn't making any sense.
So lets ignore these posts from now on. Thank you.

Last edited by Xehaust : 26th July 2015 at 17:08.
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Old 26th July 2015, 16:45   #410
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

@malq: A bit rich, calling a whole forum of 'anonymous handles' (your own words, not mine) louts and boors, then refusing to answer reasonable questions and trying to play the 'stop calling me names' victim card when you ran out of rope to hang your own arguments.

There are plenty of people on this forum I disagree with (our good friend @sachinpk being a prominent one on the KA RTO thread), but they at least have the decency to make sane, well-thought out arguments instead of acting like a petulant teenager (no offense meant to non-petulant teenagers). You have not answered ONE question posed to you directly, instead choosing to take a new tangent every single time someone gave you a reasoned retort or called out one of your 'facts'.

For all your claims of entertaining 'fact-based' responses, you've avoided every single one of such, while indulging in (like I said already a few pages ago) assumptions, name-calling, conjecture and hearsay. All this while providing NO EVIDENCE to corroborate any of your claims, and being a 'boor' in general even to people who are actually being decent to you. Oh, the irony!



P.S. Excuse me for attaching a negative adjective to an older (than me) gentleman, as noticed in fellow member Xehaust's response above, but I really do believe we're only as wise as our minds, not how many summers we've seen.


P.P.S. In the spirit of where this thread is supposed to go and requests by fellow BHP-ians, no more responses to you good Sir until you come up with something reasonable and substantial to argue about. Have a nice day!

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 26th July 2015 at 17:09.
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Old 26th July 2015, 17:24   #411
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

# On calling people boors and louts, go back and see the original message, and if it fits, wear it, who am I to say anything?

# On whether I am connected to the taxi trade in Ladakh, or anywhere else for that matter, the answer is NO. Though I do believe in public transport and would like to see higher tolls and taxes for private motor vehicles and exemptions for cabs / buses.

# I make a statement based on facts, and if you ask me nicely, may provide the rationale as well as documentary evidence. If your approach is to try to jerk my chain, then forget it.

# There is flora and fauna in every grain of sand in the deepest of deserts, anyways, wait for NGT to make its announcements on Nubra soon, too.

# More soon.
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Old 26th July 2015, 17:41   #412
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

A few good men!

"Colonel, I shall require the discharge orders for Santiago"
"You will have to ask me nicely!"



Sorry, couldn't resist!


Now that temptation has kicked in, maybe we can request the NGT to ban vehicles everywhere. Why only preserve the beauty of one region and not another?

So sir you make a statement based on facts, but those facts are only available to people who ask you nicely? Why, would they become less of facts if you posted them?

For all your talk about the flora and fauna and their love, please do share the number of local taxis plying in the Ladakh region and how many of them are diesel and how many of them comply with the PuC norms? Was that nice enough? Should I expect a response?

Next will be a law that allows local people to pollute but makes it a crime for outsiders to do it. I mean the outsiders can do it in the local vehiclea, but not in their own vehicles.

Last edited by honeybee : 26th July 2015 at 17:47.
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Old 26th July 2015, 17:41   #413
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Guys please stop dignifying Malq's posts with a response. I too tried to understand what he was talking about, but he will go on with his points no matter what you say to counter him.

This is what we call trolling, and is similar to that chap in the facebook thread posted here who went on justifying the attacks with silly reasons.

I've already replied thrice, and got no clarifications. I would request you to ignore his comments.
Guys, Malq is just trolling here.
There is no clarification in any of his posts, to any of the arguments brought up by anyone here.

Just baseless trolling and garnering free footage.

I agree with Akshay. Its best to ignore him.
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Old 26th July 2015, 17:59   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r.praveen View Post
Speaking about the video, it is clear that the taxi guys had attacked a vehicle ruthlessly (whether provoked or not). Even if there provocation by the driver, there is nothing in the rule book or the moral code to warrant such an attack. And of course if I have my family with me and there is a group of violent men surrounding my car and holding me hostage, my priority is to get the hell outta there regardless of consequences. The driver has exhibited tremendous calmness in not making a road kill.

I am not asking anyone to believe the words of the driver and other aggrieved parties on the basis of this video. But let us NOT discount the terrible ordeal that they went through (along with their families) due to lack of audio or other flimsy reason.

We may never know the full tale of what transpired there. But on the basis of the video corroborated by the various bans that they have passed and the general animosity towards self-drivers, we can make a fairly accurate assessment of what had happened.
Thank You. Quoting this so that this thread gets back on track.
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Old 26th July 2015, 18:16   #415
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

I was planning to visit Leh during Ladakh festival(September) but looking at the current situation, I am sure that I may need to drop the plan and visit Kalpa, Kaza circuit.
I think that some "extra" tax can be implemented and government should use it to provide subsidy over ventures(Taxi, Hotels, etc.).
What matters to me is to drive up there(self) and see the beauty of nature peacefully.
If one can shell out much money on fuel, accommodation, tolls, food; then some part can also planned for to this extra Leh tax. Else the economy of the region will surely take a hit and the situation will become worse.
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Old 26th July 2015, 18:49   #416
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This thread seems to be going out of hand, and is filled with massive generalisations (yes that's another one :-)) and insults on all sides.

First, I think violence is unacceptable under all circumstances. However, the Ladakh taxi drivers would not be the only group to have indulged in it. Think of how the Maruti HR GM was lynched, or the Hyundai Creta was toppled by a mob recently. We don't overreact and tar all Maruti workers or all people from MP with the same brush, but as @noopster has pointed out, we are getting dangerously close to doing that to the Ladakhi taxi drivers and perhaps even the Ladakhi people.

In the same vein, I would be inclined to suggest to the Mods that we remove the word Mafia and use a more neutral word such as Union in the title of the thread.

I agree after seeing the video that there is no evidence of any provocation on the part of our friend, the Fortuner driver, and his reaction was measured under the circumstances. And yes, the Taxi Union is probably motivated more by protectionism (by the way, which Union isn't? - they are all legal cartels) than by the desire to protect the environment. We may not support that. But if the Ladakh administration gives in to their demands, that would not be a first either.

So I would request everyone to calm down. I spent the first week of June in Ladakh - my first summer vacation in India in several years. And I had a fabulous experience - the people (including both the Taxi Drivers our group used) were fantastically helpful, and unlike what one member said, the stark beauty of this place must be beheld to be believed. So do go there - even if your dream of a self drive holiday has to be put on hold.

Peace.
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Old 26th July 2015, 18:52   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Guys, Malq is just trolling here.
There is no clarification in any of his posts, to any of the arguments brought up by anyone here.
Just baseless trolling and garnering free footage.
I agree with Akshay. Its best to ignore him.
Couldn't agree more with Jay.. Have seen many such kinds, who try to push their views and social values on others without any reason.

Best is to stay clear of them and refrain from replying and focus on the core issue like its already being requested.

Its wise idea that in the land on unknowns if someone tries to flag you down for no reason, just escape...

(someone==anyone not in Uniform)
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Old 26th July 2015, 19:11   #418
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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I can fully understand the concerns, sentiment and at the end of the day, the basic principle of not wanting to promote a place where my safety is at risk due to illegal activities.

Me and a group of friends who were planning to take 2 personal vehicles and join a couple of other friends flying in to Ladakh mid August have decided to pull the plug. So that's our contribution of 10 who are protesting by our actions rather than just words.

Protectionism is NOT the way to go... we have unique assets which people world over desire to see, and this kind of short sightedness and high handedness is what will kill the golden goose. It is no coincidence that you see a large number of Indians now opting for foreign vacations rather than exploring locally, and I am pretty sure economics is the last reason promoting this migration.

The one beacon for tourism in India that I have personally experienced is Rajasthan with excellent infra. Why can't the same model be replicated?

I think it may be worthwhile to set up and FB or other online page and start doing a counter there of how many people are choosing not to visit due to this issue.
Very aptly put, and on that note i pulled the plug today too. Sorry Taxi goons, you are not getting my money this way. I would have been probably happy to take a couple of days taxi time, if it was logical and asked in a peaceful way. Breaking anyone car is an act of extreme shame and i will not support it.

Not only have this act of yours made me feel bad as an indian, it has also dashed my hopes of driving through a presumed journey of lifetime. I wish you and your taxis a happy life in isolation or in numbers.

I don't think it is anytime soon i am going to plan this trip, and i would probably not be too disappointed anymore if i never make it.
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Old 26th July 2015, 19:30   #419
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Default Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!

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The local people know very well that their future in tourism lies more with environmentally sound tourism than with a few off-roaders tearing up the Nubra Valley. Next is what, people will want to drive their vehicles, rented or otherwise, at Valley of the Flowers or Nanda Devi sanctuary? Interesting to note how online videos of identifiable vehicles tearing up the Nubra dunes and the plants growing there are rapidly vanishing from youtube and elsewhere.

Everything is documented - which private property or state/national forests people and their vehicles entered, parked in, set up tents and over-nighted without permissions, and then left documented garbage behind.

Certainly there are many beautiful, green, snowy places in India. Keep them that way. Keep those loud, over-powered and polluting motor vehicles out unless you have specific permissions.

And if stopped by a citizen's arrest in India, when there is no immediate danger, in broad daylight with multiple vehicles from the same group ahead and behind, then stop. Call the police. Don't try to run over the people who stopped you.

Bottomline is this. India is free, but that does not mean we are free to wreck havoc in somebody else's backyard. Don't like the local people for whatever reason - don't come.

As far as the taximen's union is concerned, their website shows the rates chargeable, and the web is full of people appreciating their services. If anybody has a complaint, file one with the local authorities, don't try and run over the local population.

What in the name of sweet heaven have you been raving and ranting about! You have been all over the place starting with playing the devils advocate - to - some rambles on the regulations on licensing - to - the law - to - your sojourn through the Ladakh region some eons ago - to - how the taxi mafia had the right of damaging someones personal property - to - how the victim here is somehow the culprit cos he's thinking of not only the 'laid on the ground' gent's safety but also his and his family's safety - to - illegit mod - to - flora and fauna - to - the Indian Penal Code and the law - to - the whole-hearted support you extend to the vigilante-like behaviour of the taxi union - to- what not! Please stop strolling this post.
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Old 26th July 2015, 20:14   #420
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My last trip was a road trip and I spent approximately ₹ 60,000 other than fuel on this trip not counting the clothes and other equipment I purchased for the whole family. Not gloating, but every single penny was earned by people in that region even when I was in my private car. My Manali - Leh trip now goes to Shimla - Kaza - Manali and stays clear from J&K. I agree it's not big, but it's a contribution all the same. Will never walk into a trap with my family irrespective of the fact that such situations can be created by people around me.

Really admire the driver for his restraint, I'm unsure if I could've held back so long. The risk for the family was too high in my opinion, plus the explanation to the young kids... I remember a friend's daughter ask her mother "if it was a movie", when they were held at gunpoint for robbery. They went through psychotherapy to get out of the shock. Having this at the back of my mind and having young kids, I might've reacted sooner than the gentleman driving the Fortuner.

This is not about the region or the entire community, so please don't defend the community/region, nobody is against it. This is against a union which is into ILLEGAL activity which includes stopping others vehicles or even checking their documents. They are out of their bounds for every such activity.

The elderly gentleman trolling the thread must be simply enjoying popcorn by a couple of provokes to which we are all responding. While I realise this, I think it is important to show support and solidarity to those in the convoy who suffered.
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