26th July 2015, 14:27 | #391 | |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
Moreover, there is evidence that the lead car, a DL-registered CR-V that escaped this particular bunch unharmed was smashed up later (pic posted in post# 339, page 23 of this thread), which the Facebook poster was earlier trying to claim as proof of their non-violent intentions "we didn't do anything to that car, see we just wanted to talk". Now the CR-V didn't harm anybody on the video and neither are the locals claiming any wrongdoing on the CR-V's part (all I see claimed is the Fortuner driver's 'misdeeds'), so why did they smash the CR-V? For fun? It's pretty evident now that these people are making stuff up as they go along, and despite repeated claims of having plenty of evidence, haven't produced a shred of it to corroborate their claims, yet. All I see so far are inflammatory posts against 'outsiders', asking them to stay away if they don't like the 'local rules'. Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 26th July 2015 at 14:35. | |
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26th July 2015, 14:29 | #392 | |
Team-BHP Support | Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
Secondly, from the video, I see that he started moving when the dashcam started shaking, i.e. people are hitting his car. With his family in car, I think anybody would panic. Last but not the least, you are mixing issues. Issue 1: People offroad in lakes and rivers(including taxi drivers). Locals may not like it. Issue 2: Self drive rentals are a competition for taxis, and the union does not want them Issue 3 : Vehicles were attacked, not just in this incident, but before also. I am very surprised, that instead of condemning violence, people are somehow justifying the violence. Thousands of people go to Ladakh every year, and some of them offroad in pangong Lake. Infact, in the picture, the Thar which is seen in Pangong lake has all its windows intact. Why wasn't that particular thar Attacked. The reason is simple. When this issue blue up, the taxi union wanted to save its skin. So it came up with ecology angle. Coming to ecology angle, the taxi union claims it has support of local administration. The local admin has the right to designate areas off limit for private and commercial vehicles. For example, you cannot camp at night on the banks of Pangong. You have to cross the road and camp. This is an enforced rule by forest department. They can make this rule for vehicles also. Isn't it simple. Coming to competition, well competition means you have to adapt. Here also Taxi union could have go to their admin and asked for a tax on commercial out of state vehicles. Andhra does that, doesn't it? Why didn't they do that. Last but not the least, about 3-4 people on social media have come up with justifications, and are trying to bring in "ecology" damage angle. There is no proof of the same for this convoy, just some random pictures. I can also post random pictures and videos of JK10 vehicles being bogged down in the sand banks of Pangong Apart from these 3-4 people, nobody is coming forward. The reason is simple, this support is not widespread. Esp, in the villages, they only stand to lose if private vehicles stop coming. How many people in taxis even go to Hanle or Chushul etc., If Taxi union scares away private vehicles, Leh-Pangong-Nubra will flourish, and everything else will become even more isolated. | |
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26th July 2015, 14:32 | #393 | ||
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
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Differences between RPC & IPC Last edited by Eddy : 26th July 2015 at 16:57. Reason: quoted post edited for off topic content. | ||
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26th July 2015, 14:39 | #394 | |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
If environmentally sound tourism is what the people of Ladakh prefer, it is appreciated. Get it legislated and passed into law. Lay down fair rules for everyone to follow. Everyone will respect the people of Ladakh for it and other eco-sensitive tourist areas will try to emulate Ladakh region. Just asking, 1)Trying to arrest and hold a citizen by attempting to harm them, is this legal? 2)If you were being stopped by a bunch of people whom you do-not know, on an unfamiliar road when travelling with a family, will you? 3)If those people try to snatch away the key, the only thing you know is a ticket out of the place in case things turn ugly, will you allow them? 4)Did those people (taxi drivers) identify themselves and make their intentions clear before their action? What you are doing is trying justifying the actions of few greedy persons and vilifying the people who legitimately complain and call them names (off-roaders, boorish). This is very immature. Think of just one thing, if any one member in the convoy had been critically injured what would have happened? It was plain luck that all of them from the convoy came back alive to their homes. Every-time a family of tourists thinks about driving into Ladakh, this will be in the back of their minds.. | |
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26th July 2015, 14:41 | #395 | |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
We are not wearing bangles like our politicians. This so much god fearing community fails to see what happened to Nepal where the tourism trade was even more biased against Indian tourist. Do dozens of SUVs cause movement of tectonic plate pushing towards Himalayas? Last edited by DwarkaDelhiWala : 26th July 2015 at 14:55. | |
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26th July 2015, 15:03 | #396 | |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
Wow! The way you draft your replies, without getting emotional at all, like a seasoned professional, is indeed appreciable! But a few silly questions: 1) It seems to many of us, you know them much better than we do. Good. If anyone were to randomly check 50 taxis they own, for technically correct condition of tyres, how many would pass the check? Considering sub zero temperatures during the months of inactivity and brittle rubber? So, my fault: I am a little more knowledgeable and I wouldn't like to risk my life, so I travel in my own car, BUT, I still need to pay for a risky taxi. So, you vouch for the safety of the taxis. Good. 2) If I were to randomly check ANY JK10 taxi for emissions: how many would pass? Please do not say "none of the taxis anywhere, do" because then, the other taxis aren't crying hoarse over the "fragile ecology" they are protecting! 3) What "citizens arrest": Whatever makes you think it's valid? From Wiki : "A citizen's arrest is an arrest made by a person who is not acting as a sworn law-enforcement official. In common law jurisdictions, the practice dates back to medieval England and the English common law, in which sheriffs encouraged ordinary citizens to help apprehend law breakers." I understand the medieval part: quite apt, I clearly see the encouragement part.....but where are the law breakers??? Please! 4) What local authority? The local police were mute spectators, and the higher ups will feign ignorance: those with even higher pay grade and decisive, are unapproachable! When simple complaints like a "lost" wallet cannot be registered, you expect "domestic" tourists to lodge complaints against the malpractice in which they hold fairly high stakes? Everything said, there is much more disposable cash with the aam Indian these days, especially after pay commission recommendations. Gentle extortion in the form of fancy rates for everything touristy, is accepted to be acceptable. Pachranga achar in every NCR dhaba: 60 percent pricier...I still buy it! Happens even in EU. Bodily harm...is out of the question. That's what this protest is about malq! Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 26th July 2015 at 15:13. | |
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26th July 2015, 15:05 | #397 | ||||||
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
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Instead of intimidating and threatening the tourists and their children, the people of Ladakh should protest and represent their case in front of the authorities. It is the government's job to regulate access to eco sensitive areas and this has to be done in a proper and well thought out/researched manner. How is stopping a car with women and children inside, throwing huge rocks at them, going to help the cause of the environment? Quote:
Since you are so passionately trying to justify a mob action like this, please tell me this - according to you what was the crime committed by the family in that Fortuner that would justify a citizen's arrest? Don't quote any rhetoric or other imaginative instances. Be to the point about this instance - What crime was committed by this family that would justify a citizen's arrest and being stopped in the first place? Quote:
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Heights of hypocrisy. | ||||||
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26th July 2015, 15:45 | #398 |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Let us start with the title of this forum posting - who has decided that a taxi union is a "mafia"? Next - why would I bother to answer immature people who demand answers and then also get down to calling me names? Citizen's arrest is Section 43 of the CrPC, IPC, which is based on codification of the Ranbir Penal Code, if I am not mistaken. Fourth, fact remains, uni-directional misuse of social media is always suspect. Luckily, social media does not go beyond a few people on a screen here. Look outside, Ladakh is doing just fine without some people, mostly anonymous handles, threatening to boycott it. Have a nice day. Last edited by Eddy : 26th July 2015 at 16:55. Reason: Please use the contact us / report post functionalities for requesting moderator action. |
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26th July 2015, 15:45 | #399 |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia!
I presume you have made this statement meaning to imply that "You are not a coward like Politicians" (cause that is how your statement will be generally interpreted). Wearing bangles or people who wear bangles are not cowards. Just look up our Freedom struggle or the internet for real life examples of women showing more courage than men. Sorry mods if I have run off topic with this comment. Coming back to the topic, India does possess people who are passionate about driving. But they are a minority. In the case of Leh and surrounding region, passionate drivers fortunately encompass a sizable portion of the tourists. Now perhaps the hotel and restaurant owners may not feel the pinch of it but given time they will come to the realization that their revenue is way low when compared to the Taxi owners. After all it is their business that got lost by the actions of the union. Speaking about the video, it is clear that the taxi guys had attacked a vehicle ruthlessly (whether provoked or not). Even if there provocation by the driver, there is nothing in the rule book or the moral code to warrant such an attack. And of course if I have my family with me and there is a group of violent men surrounding my car and holding me hostage, my priority is to get the hell outta there regardless of consequences. The driver has exhibited tremendous calmness in not making a road kill. I am not asking anyone to believe the words of the driver and other aggrieved parties on the basis of this video. But let us NOT discount the terrible ordeal that they went through (along with their families) due to lack of audio or other flimsy reason. We may never know the full tale of what transpired there. But on the basis of the video corroborated by the various bans that they have passed and the general animosity towards self-drivers, we can make a fairly accurate assessment of what had happened. Last edited by r.praveen : 26th July 2015 at 15:48. |
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26th July 2015, 15:49 | #400 |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! I am not sure why these hooligans have not been arrested till now? There is also video evidence in addition to the visible damage that was done to the vehicles. I am happy that things did not turn worse, in panic driver could have mowed down few people - thank god that didn't happen else these tourists would have been in deeper trouble. Most of Malq's arguments seem lame. He is trying to somehow justify organized act of terror, which isn't making any sense. |
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26th July 2015, 15:49 | #401 | |
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| Quote:
Even if we agree for 4-5 feet, it is only after the attacks (vibrations on screen), the vehicle has moved. There is no provocation from the driver side and he has stopped as soon as the sathagrahi makes his peaceful act of satyagraha. It wouldn't be fair to blame the driver for this movement when he has his kids in the car. I could never say what I would have done in this situation. | |
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26th July 2015, 16:04 | #402 | |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
Also waiting for your reply against the question raised by mayankk if you are associated with local taxi business in Laddakh? | |
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26th July 2015, 16:13 | #403 | |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
Please use the report feature, to notify the moderators, if not already done. IMHO, you are pre-judging too, and without the evidence suggested earlier. Nothing has surfaced as yet, with or without audio mute. I stand corrected, if it's otherwise. Section 43 CrPC : "Any private person may arrest or cause to be arrested any person who in his presence commits a non- bailable and cognizable offence, or any proclaimed offender, and, without unnecessary delay, shall make over or cause to be made over any person so arrested to a police officer, or, in the absence of a police officer, take such person or cause him to be taken in custody to the nearest police station." Unable to comprehend, which was the "cognizable" offence according to law? Is even the constitution valid? Furthermore, if the locals were as empowered, they should have called the police themselves, no? It is like trying to shield their guilt! Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 26th July 2015 at 16:16. | |
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26th July 2015, 16:20 | #404 | |
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Quote:
The resolution was passed way before this incident occurred. So what prompted the union to pass this seemingly one-sided resolution? You also seem to be conveniently bending your own statements with each argument thrown at you. For each and every alibi the union supporters have presented, i.e. environment, rash driving, etc. does any one have any sort of corroborative evidence linking such activities only to self drives? These self drive cars are way more modern/ well-maintained/ newer as compared to the taxis operated by the union. Again, it is up to the authorities to decide, what is to be banned. Not any self appointed saviors of the region. How to you expect someone being attacked/ unlawfully being stopped to wait and seek shelter with the authorities? If the union is so concerned about the environment, why don't they focus their energies towards preventing people from littering rather than display barbarism. Why would one, when there is no financial gain to be seen from this, isn't it? I believe what i see, the OP currently seems to have presented enough for me, to see that the guys who accosted the Fortuner group were not right. If you feel we are not being shown the entire story/ we are in the dark about a lot of other issues that you are trying to stress upon, please present some details/ proof of what you are trying to establish. | |
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26th July 2015, 16:25 | #405 | |||||||||
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| Re: Car convoy attacked in Ladakh by taxi mafia! Dear MalQ, Many thanks for the afternoon entertainment! Quote:
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You ran out of points to respond and therefore resort to stereotyping ALL of Team-BHP as a bunch of louts with illegal modifications and loud exhausts and what not.
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Please feel free to quote the RPC (the way you categorized the offences in another post) but in this case, here's my commonsense response - the recording does not capture anything which was not unseen by people when they were driving on that road (just as much as by other tourists when they click pictures on that road). Its no difference from a handycam that is being carried by hand by a passenger - please tell me where the MVA requires to include it as a vehicle modification. Again, people have been making videos of their travel on these roads for years - many TV shows have been shot as well. If there's a road meant only defence - civilians aren't permitted on those roads in the first place. I understand there are many like that in Ladakh. In that case yes, there may be some issue - in this case, I'm afraid your argument whilst creative is at a dead end here. Quote:
Please tell us exactly what was the issue with THIS set of cars which was attacked? Can you also give a convincing logic why EVERY car in this convoy was attacked - was everyone off-roading in ecologically sensitive areas? Do you have documentary proof? Quote:
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I for one agree with others that the Fortuner driver was very restrained in his driving - had he given the keys, he would've been thrashed in broad daylight only, in most likelihood. Please share with us stories of your citizen's arrest(s). I do not know of such issues working out well in most cases - please educate us. It often degenerates into mob justice. Would you advise your children to hand over the keys if they were stopped on the road by a bunch of "citizens" just like that? Have you ever done that yourself, with your family in the car? There wasn't a conversation or a negotiation - just an attempt to grab the key. Again, power to you if you will submit yourself to such citizen arrests - most of the folks, whether on or off this forum, will not. PS to others: This post contains significant sarcasm, lest someone confuse that! PPS: While you're following up on all these technicalities - here are some videos for you to digest: (Silly taxi driver + sillier tourists encouraging it - jail both please!) Last edited by phamilyman : 26th July 2015 at 16:28. | |||||||||
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