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Old 7th December 2015, 14:08   #136
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Sorry for Nitpicking but I was shocked to see that in yesterday's ISL match at Jawahar Lal Nehru Stadium at Delhi, Fireworks were used liberally, and they were leaving big trail of smoke.

Now I am surprised as to how to interpret this, is it blatant display of money power in the name of public demand, lack of co-ordination or public connect among organisers and Govt., or it simply is a Indian way of functioning.

Now all I can say is that while we can't avoid the use of fireworks during a club match, how can we expect implementation of other measures, we really deserve to be a third-world country.

End of Rant.
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Old 7th December 2015, 14:09   #137
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Well Friends, a lot debated, I will try to put my perspective

First, I am clearly in line with the fact that something drastic has to be done in order to curb the excessive pollution in Delhi. Pollution is an undesirable byproduct of economic activity. However, not everything is going in the right direction and leaves a lot to be desired.

Road space rationing

Pros (+)
  1. In my opinion this is something worth experimenting. However, such an initiative is better for only small restricted periods. On days with heavy pollution.
  2. It will encourage you to speak to your neighbor in case he / she is not using his car.
  3. Will temporary reduce the traffic on the road.
  4. Temporary reduce the pollution offload into the Delhi Air.

Cons (-)

I see a long list of cons, to implement this initiative
  1. Harassment from Auto and Taxi Fleet owners. You will be fleeced more and will keep Kejriwal with this popularity with Auto / Rikshaw votebank
  2. People will now rush to buy more cars / bikes, for those who can afford. More parking mess inside residential colonies.
  3. You need a huge police force to implement this scheme
  4. Further, it would mean, greater corruption - For people who are willing to escape for voilations by simply tipping off the policeman.
  5. What do you do for emergencies ?
  6. Metro does not run 24 hours, limited availability of Taxi's at night. It will cost very dearly to people.
  7. If people continue to use Taxi's, pollution really is not effectively reduced
  8. People travelling in and out of Delhi, need to plan their return based on number plate ?
  9. Too many cars would have to be intercepted / stopped (defaulters), leading to traffic snarls.

What could have been done better ?
  1. First - Stop these Damn Trucks that go through Delhi, merrily belching out black smoke.
  2. Carpet the Roads so that there are no pot holes. Lots of Fuel, Time is wasted do to pot holes on major roads.
  3. Vacuum clear the roads. There is so much dirt on the roads that needs to be taken off.
  4. Run a Vehicle replacement program for Vehicles that are more than 10 years old.
  5. Implement Euro 5 standards today !!! Euro 6 tomorrow !!!
  6. Stop overloading those trucks. They belch out even more smoke when overloaded. Specially trucks carrying fine / coarse sand. They just keep flowing out of the trucks. All contributing to particulate matter.
  7. Stop any further housing establishments in Delhi, Delhi just cannot house more people.
  8. If you have the guts, Complete the peripheral connectivity for Delhi. Speed up the Faridabad - Noida - Greater Noida connectivity.
  9. Electrification of Delhi buses with Dedicated lanes for overhead powered electric bus lanes. This will ensure that buses move only in designated lanes as well.
  10. Incentivise car pooling. Allow car's with odd or even numbers to run on the road in case it is having 3 or more passengers.

Finally, I feel its the collective responsibility of the people to the society to reduce the pollution of Delhi in their personal capacity. Use cars more sensibly. Car Pool.
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Old 7th December 2015, 14:27   #138
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Cost of commute will go up significantly. Apart from fuel cost and maintenance cost of the car, a metro/bus ticket+autorickshaw fare will have to be incurred now.
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Old 7th December 2015, 14:28   #139
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

1. Delhi is not just Delhi its NCT, which comprises of Gurgaon, Noida, Greater Noida, Sahibabad, Ghaziabad, Sonipat, Faridabad and Palwal too. So apart from Commercial Vehicles a humongous amount of vehicles pass through the City limits for work and other reasons.
2. There is HUGE construction going on in Noida/ Gr. Noida, Gurgaon, Faridabad areas. This non-stop construction brings in so much of dust into NCR that at times it feels you are in some Desert. Most of the projects are delayed, so the excavated sites are lying idle (more than 50% cases idle time is 5+ years.) Construction material lying in open for months. This all add immensely to the pollution.
3. Poor enforcement of Pollution Control laws on private and commercial vehicles. Just give 100 bucks and you get the certificate. Overloaded commercial vehicles cause more pollution, no check on that as well. No check of fitness of vehicles plying on roads.
Government must take serious steps on these aspects as well.
Public Transport of Delhi is not of international standards and add safety concerns on top of that, anyone who is financially able to use own car will use it. The last mile connectivity will always be an issue until people feel safe in taking Rickshaw or walk back home.
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Old 7th December 2015, 15:00   #140
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTO_ZING View Post



I see a long list of cons, to implement this initiative
  1. Harassment from Auto and Taxi Fleet owners. You will be fleeced more and will keep Kejriwal with this popularity with Auto / Rikshaw votebank
Auto and Taxi drivers will really be benefited heavily. Although drivers will fleece commuters, I feel that Uber guys will earn the most due to peak time surcharge.

Quote:
  1. Run a Vehicle replacement program for Vehicles that are more than 10 years old.
Why this? There has been enough talk on the forum on this subject. I'm sure many well maintained 10 year old cars will pollute less than 2 year old taxis.
This sort of scheme can be implemented on taxis and CVs.
Loop holes in procedure of the Emission test must be closed.
Quote:
  • Stop overloading those trucks. They belch out even more smoke when overloaded. Specially trucks carrying fine / coarse sand. They just keep flowing out of the trucks. All contributing to particulate matter.
  • Incentivise car pooling. Allow car's with odd or even numbers to run on the road in case it is having 3 or more passengers.
If you try implementing a new system to curb overloading, the truckers will protest and essential supplies will be hit.

Car with 3 people is an extremely good point. Cars with 3 people on a main road should be allowed without any restriction. I think Singapore doesn't apply congestion tax when 3 people travel.
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Old 7th December 2015, 17:31   #141
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Thumbs up re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTO_ZING View Post
Well Friends, a lot debated, I will try to put my perspective
(...)

Finally, I feel its the collective responsibility of the people to the society to reduce the pollution of Delhi in their personal capacity. Use cars more sensibly. Car Pool.
Very nice points made here by Auto-Zing. Well, more or less, the general idea is that it's absurd to make such a decision to lower the pollution levels, but unfortunately, we are living in a gas chamber(as quote by the courts).

We have to take drastic measures to bring down these pollution levels. Many people have suggested why doesn't the govt curb the trucks/commercial vehicles, construction activity, pollution norms & PUC should be implemented strictly. However, i'm sure the Govt is looking into these options as well but since the courts have asked them to start acting to reduce pollution, this is one of the steps which would reduce the pollution in a day compared to other suggested steps above.

Also, kindly go through this article where the Delhi CM has outlined the steps they would be taking to reduce pollution apart from the Even/Odd ban:

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/arvin...lights-1251390

This ban is being tested for 15 days to see how it goes. The CJI has appreciated this step and has committed car Pooling among the judges for travelling to work.

I believe it's an inconvenience to all. But it's a step in the right direction since all that has been done till today (by previous govt's) is all talk and no action. May be, this is a temporary/stop gap decision and once all other measures are put into place(vis-a-vis PUC implementation, construction norms, better public transportation, movement of industries from delhi, newer standards-Euro 5/6), this might be withdrawn at all.

Remember, the previous govt's/politicos are to be blamed for the mess we are in today because this pollution has not surfaced overnight.

Mod Note: Please do not quote a large post in its entirety- it makes things difficult for our small-screen users.

Last edited by noopster : 7th December 2015 at 22:06. Reason: Refer mod note inline
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Old 7th December 2015, 17:39   #142
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTO_ZING View Post
What could have been done better ?
  1. First - Stop these Damn Trucks that go through Delhi, merrily belching out black smoke.
  2. Carpet the Roads so that there are no pot holes. Lots of Fuel, Time is wasted do to pot holes on major roads.
  3. Vacuum clear the roads. There is so much dirt on the roads that needs to be taken off.
  4. Run a Vehicle replacement program for Vehicles that are more than 10 years old.
  5. Implement Euro 5 standards today !!! Euro 6 tomorrow !!!
  6. Stop overloading those trucks. They belch out even more smoke when overloaded. Specially trucks carrying fine / coarse sand. They just keep flowing out of the trucks. All contributing to particulate matter.
  7. Stop any further housing establishments in Delhi, Delhi just cannot house more people.
  8. If you have the guts, Complete the peripheral connectivity for Delhi. Speed up the Faridabad - Noida - Greater Noida connectivity.
  9. Electrification of Delhi buses with Dedicated lanes for overhead powered electric bus lanes. This will ensure that buses move only in designated lanes as well.
  10. Incentivise car pooling. Allow car's with odd or even numbers to run on the road in case it is having 3 or more passengers.
Finally, I feel its the collective responsibility of the people to the society to reduce the pollution of Delhi in their personal capacity. Use cars more sensibly. Car Pool.
Agree with all your points. My observation behind this move has been that since the private car owning population is least likely to resort to protests/ strikes, they are the easiest to target in this entire drive to curb the pollution. Will add a couple of more suggestions from my side which can help but need political will-
a) Buring farm waste in Punjab and Haryana- Not so long ago it was in news that farmers in Punjab and haryana set crop waste on fire each year in their fields around this time. The scale of this activity is so huge that the smoke affects the visibility levels in delhi as well. This needs to be stopped immediately. Ofcourse dealing with the farmers won't be as easy as dealing with the city dwellers https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...08538919,d.dGY

b) Burning municipal waste- There are many municipal dumpyards in and around Delhi where the local corporations set the waste on fire on a regular basis. This leads to huge pollution in Delhi. Even though there is an NGT order banning this practice, the practice continues in violation of the rules- http://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-ne...d_1615922.html

c) Burning tyres, plastic and firewood in winter months- I am sensitive to the homeless but you would find at many places taxi drivers, rickshawpullers, hawkers, footpath vendors burning tyres, plastic, firewood for heat as they wait for their customers. This leads to a release of gases into the atmosphere which must be several times more toxic than automobile emissions

Mod Note: Please do not quote a large post in its entirety- it makes things difficult for our small-screen users.

Last edited by noopster : 7th December 2015 at 22:07. Reason: Refer mod note inline
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Old 7th December 2015, 18:10   #143
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

To begin with, there should be a simultaneous cut in road tax by 50% as we are not being allowed to use the road for half the days. Same with insurance premiums which should be made to cover the car for two years for a one year premium as the risk is halved. Manufacturers should also be forced to double the warranty period on cars for the same reason.

The general public has become a very soft target. We are generally too busy to protest or we find alternatives to circumvent laws. In a sense, the administration is truly becoming intolerant to the citizens. In many instances, our lives are being made miserable to cover up for incompetence of the administrative machinery. The sun-film ban is an excellent example. It is like amputating an infected limb just because the better options entail additional difficulties for the surgeon.

Last edited by mi2n : 7th December 2015 at 18:12.
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Old 7th December 2015, 19:28   #144
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The implementation of the even-odd days is likely to be applicable for vehicles plying/parking in high-congestion areas such as Connaught Place, Azadpur, Lajpat Nagar, Nehru Place etc. For the rest of the city, vehicles are likely to ply normally. For those just passing through the high-congestion areas, a re-routing would probably be the only action necessary.
In the stream of good suggestions being expressed, this is the most important statement that is going unnoticed. Thank you for sharing this.
People are talking about increasing road space, creating cycle lanes, banning diesel cars and prohibiting non CNG trucks from entering the city. The problem is, by doing so , someone else will start objecting because it would lead to a minor inconvenience. Increasing road space is a problem because most roads are already broad and further expansion would require demolition drives. Cycle tracks end up becoming fast tracks for bikes and if they are wide enough, parking lanes for cars. This has happened in Ahmedabad. If you prevent the trucks from entering the city, prices of fruits, vegetables and other necessities would go up because we do not have any cng trucks outside metros at the moment. People would complain.
The long term solution is to motivate people to use EVs but that is unlikely to entice buyers because there are no choices in the segment and the charging infrastructure is still not encouraging.
The Government wants to experiment with one measure to see how the air quality fares- they'll observe things for 15 days and then decide whether to continue or not. I think it will help if they give an option to the out of turn vehicle numbers to ply on the roads after paying a daily toll for driving in the peak hours- the monetary setback is likely to motivate users to sample the public transport.
Let us give this a chance. It is unlikely that the Police will crack down on drivers using their cars on all days because there will be thousands of them. Instead, the notification and the publicity will sensitize at least a few thousand people to try the public transport system.
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Old 7th December 2015, 19:59   #145
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-35026363

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...t-city-6968892

"Beijing in smog red alert as city goes into shutdown to protect people from deadly air
Beijing has issued its first red alert for smog as the Chinese capital goes into shutdown to protect people from the deadly air.

Authorities are urging schools to close and have placed restrictions on factories and vehicle owners in a bid to limit pollution .

The red alert - the most serious warning - was announced late on Monday. It means authorities have forecast more than three consecutive days of severe smog.

It is the second time this month Beijing has experienced a prolonged bout of smog
Most of the pollution is blamed on coal-fired power plants, along with vehicle emissions and construction and factory work.

Along with school closures and limiting cars to driving every other day depending on the last number of their licence plate, a raft of other restrictions will seek to reduce the amount of dust.

Officials said extra subway trains and buses would be added to handle the additional strain on public transport."
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Old 7th December 2015, 20:01   #146
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

I won't be following this rule.
Do you really expect someone to take a bus from Delhi to kundli everyday?
Should I buy 2 cars for my highway needs?

NO way will I be risking the safety of my family by asking them to travel in public transport/ taxis at night. My vehicles are serviced before time and the govt wants me to rot myself in public transport. Newsflash, the transport isn't developed at all.
I'll be sticking to my car, thankyou very much.
Ban the taxis and trucks that throw out soot filled exhaust fumes.
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Old 7th December 2015, 20:15   #147
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

The odd/even policy will NOT be applicable to two wheelers.
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Old 7th December 2015, 20:31   #148
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

The government should also exempt the Mahindra e2o (and the likes, if any) from this even/odd mess. That is, if there is anyone in Delhi driving one.
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Old 7th December 2015, 20:49   #149
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

I think it's a quick and effective way to curb the current levels of pollutions. I am sure they must be working on a long term sustainable solution - but that also would need time. till then this seems to be a good interim solution.

I am sure lot of delhites would be pissed, but looking at the larger picture - it would help them in the end.

Maybe the govt. tries it out for the next 3 months or so - and then see the pollution levels.

when they said commercial vehicles are exempt - will that cover the trucks and other commercial vehicles too? Maybe those should be stopped with the same method too.

also what happens when one is coming home late at night?
he/she must have left on one date, and might be returning on other (post 12 that is) - what will be considered in this case?
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Old 7th December 2015, 22:34   #150
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

All,

Please answer this " If you're really thirsty and somebody places dirty/muddy water in front of you would you drink it to quench your thirst or would you look for clean water ?"

Just because we cant see the dirty/polluted air we breathe, means we should breathe whatever is available ?

We need to make air clean to breathe even if that means any drastic step.

Like I suggested earlier govt should charge Rs 500 online and allow you to take out your car for Rs 500 per 24 hours, sounds better solution than even-odd formula.

Pay Rs 500 each day you wish to use your car in Delhi, Any car entering Delhi should pay 500 online and then is free to enter Delhi. Same should apply to all non CNG taxis.
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