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Old 10th December 2015, 00:39   #211
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Two of the loopholes that can be exploited :

1) There will be a more than a few thousand drivers who wouldn't mind reaching the destination before 8 and leaving after 8 on alternate days. After all car is a convenience, who would like to give it up every alternate day only to bump elbows in buses & metro?

2) Delhi as it is has majority families owning more than one motor car, say hello to more purchases for the few who do have only one.

Questions people should be asking :
-What about the already overcrowded metro lines, what happens if say 25% of the car driving population (lets say about a million people?) are added as passengers in peak hour?
- How much of this pollution is caused by resident industries which are found in the thousands in Delhi area?
- If cabs are exempt and if they see this as a permanent business opportunity wont the number of cabs skyrocket by predicting more demand thus neutralizing the positive effect? Also since cabs are mostly of diesel fuel the NOx emissions would be higher.
- Vehicles are banned irrespective of their fuel type, what if people wanting to subsidize on the running costs due to purchase of another vehicle of even/odd number buy a 2nd hand diesel? Wont that worsen the situation?
- Trucks & transport lorries that ply post the restricted timings would do sizeable damage to Delhi's atmosphere.. that would continue unquestioned.
- From the scale of micro-management, how will this be enforced? If volunteers and army dish out their brand of vigilante justice isn't there a risk of law getting diluted thus leading to undue harassment of wilful/accidental violators?
- Would the "choose your number-plate" system of RTO be revoked for the city of Delhi?

My opinions of what could really be done to get some results. Please do not look at this from the viewpoint of auto-enthusiasts. Delhi is in trouble and so are other cities and I feel the capital should lead by example by :
1) Higher taxes on diesel engines (lets say 10% extra for under 1.5 litre and 20% for over 1.5 litre on ex-showroom as a bare minimum). Only for LCV.
2) Giving better subsidy for petrol & hybrid/full electric engines.
3) Regulating diesel genset usage in commercial buildings & residential flats.
4) Strict monitoring of emission tests of cab cars (should reflect on the insurance database annually). If over limit insurance should be denied.

I know in the end each solution is only a point of view of an individual the same way as all that written above are of mine. Lets just look at it practically - this system is going to be withdrawn in a month, no draconian law has ever worked in the history of governance. What has worked though are the details, the little areas where costs should be used to arm-twist even the most rigid of targets to get to a point of greater benefits. Just one loophole is enough to offset all optimistic projections in real world.
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Old 10th December 2015, 08:27   #212
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

After Delhi , Mumbai plans on the odd -even formula. Will wait and watch and implement if successful in Delhi.

Quote:
The authorities are considering the Delhi model due to the rise in the number of vehicle registrations at Vashi and Panvel transport offices and floating population of around 10,000 tankers per day.
http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...rmula/50116172

Last edited by volkman10 : 10th December 2015 at 08:29.
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Old 10th December 2015, 09:25   #213
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

#DelhiOddEven restriction seem more like controlling congestion, rather than pollution.

Last edited by msdivy : 10th December 2015 at 09:27.
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Old 10th December 2015, 09:40   #214
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Resigned to fate, since come what may, this will be happen for 15 days.
I was looking to buy a used Xenon, of which there are 5. And now I have to look for one which has an odd plate.
Of which there 2.

Here's how a supposedly beneficial exercise cannot be justified as non-farcical even by the supporters here:
1. Two wheelers - carry on!
2. Cabbies - carry on!
3. Women - Unclear, but I would like for them to carry on. This may be a safe city now as per promises, but I wouldn't let my wife or sister use public transport alone at night, or on desolate stretches.
4. Govt/ Stickered vehicles - They say one thing, but come on, what do you think will happen?

So the people who are in the ambit are men, in private vehicles, with non compliant last digits for the day.

Wow!
And here I was, doubting the system that they didn't research this. Such a targetted subset! This must have been done over years of analysis.

However, go back to the exclusion set, 1,2, and 4. Today, try and notice these guys, and take pictures. At the end of the day you'll have a compilation depicting hazy number plates, because of the white or black smoke spewing. AND an assortment of tailbacks caused by these when they have barged in at the most disruptive angle to the flow.
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Old 10th December 2015, 09:46   #215
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

They are trying to emulate Athens with no brains! Athens is coastal so incoming and through traffic are minimal. Here the number of cars coming in and passing through is huge.
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Old 10th December 2015, 10:15   #216
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

I see more of positive reactions than the negatives on this new odd-even formula. Better we get prepared for such situations earlier than it becomes too late and all the cars have to be vanished out completely from the roads.

Bangalore also may follow the odd-even rule:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/50102316.cms



Corporates, instead of protesting against the new rule, are rather coming in support of it and trying to make their employees ready to adopt it. They are planning to take some alternative measures like car pooling, distributing free metro passes, allowing work-from-home etc to cope with the commute related issues which will arise after implementation of the new rule.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/50114068.cms


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Old 10th December 2015, 10:44   #217
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
After Delhi , Mumbai plans on the odd -even formula. Will wait and watch and implement if successful in Delhi.
Chandigarh and Lucknow are also having the same idea. Me too syndrome.

Many of the corporate fixes are not workable for all. Can my son (a neurosurgeon) operate on remote, and even if he could would a patient be willing. Some corporate volunteers please.

What has the govt done about

1. Perpetual traffic jams at known spots. Any reorganisation of traffic?
2. Adulteration of fuel.
3. Two stroke vehicles.
4. Decent alternative transport.
5. Myriads of trucks transiting throught the Delhi area (only now some taxation has been put).
6. Grossly overloaded trucks!
7. Badly potholed roads.

Driving back from Gurgaon on the 3rd I saw the smog all the way to Mathura (about 11:00am) on the YE.

Last edited by sgiitk : 10th December 2015 at 10:52.
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Old 10th December 2015, 10:47   #218
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Odd-even formula is all a result of Delhi people's own doings.
EVERYONE I know (I hail from Delhi only) who stays there cribs about the perpetual traffic congestion, snarls, jams, absolute lack of parking space. And to top it, no driving and parking discipline sprinkled with a healthy dose of "तू जानता है मेरा बाप कौन है?" (Do you know my father is high and mighty?) if you try to talk something sensible.

But everyone (the same mentioned people above) kept buying "just one more" larger vehicle for himself and his family. Funnily they don't have parking spaces even at their homes!

Connectivity in public transport is not a problem, but I agree comfort and rush is. It has always been, but the issue is that it will never make any sense for any govt to run empty AC buses with Rs50-100 fare because those people are anyway taking cabs or private vehicles for commute.


Quote:
"Corporates, instead of protesting against the new rule, are rather coming in support of it and trying to make their employees ready to adopt it. They are planning to take some alternative measures like car pooling, distributing free metro passes, allowing work-from-home etc to cope with the commute related issues which will arise after implementation of the new rule."

"Given the traffic situation, constantly finding solutions to ease the congestion on the road is an imperative today. We are increasingly adopting 'agile working' models which will allow our employees to work from anywhere as opposed to spending long unproductive hours on the road.
Shouldn't these corporate encourage these measure ever since their inception? It all makes me feel that we all NEED knee jerk reactions to start responding to changing situations. Because all of us (employers, employees), on our own are too lazy and preoccupied with maintaining the status quo (which actually worsens slowly but no one notices).

To end my post which runs contrary to this thread, I am reminded of this insightful cartoon which I had come across long time ago:
Attached Images
 

Last edited by alpha1 : 10th December 2015 at 10:58.
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Old 10th December 2015, 10:51   #219
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Beijing follows suit:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/sho...plate-lottery/

Paris already has this in place:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/num...e-paris-today/
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Old 10th December 2015, 12:19   #220
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

- Could just be a calculated move by the Delhi Govt after having been forced to act by the SC - like, hey we tried... din't work. Need more time.

- Boost the Auto wala sales. Consider the first 2-3 three days of the implementation. People would be bursting out of Metro Stations and Buses - and places like Gurgaon and Noida where the Autos are already mostly-never running on the Meter, this would lead to a bidding war: highest bidder gets to take the Auto.

Also, how are they gonna stop the defaulters on D-Day? Start stopping cars on the road? Wouldn't that be a bigger mess - more jam, more standing fuel being burnt?

What needs to be done is, as already ascertained everywhere, to beef up the public transport system. Everyone would happily use the Metros and Buses if the service was better - more comfortable, less crowded, cleaner. And most of all - last mile connectivity. You can reach Saket vis the Metro but how do I cover the 3 KM distance that further inside I need to be? This would be through more metro feeder buses, shared autos (revitalize the tuk-tuk services perhaps).

A great move could be - a Govt run car-pooling portal. Yes, it's going to be near impossible to manage, and run, but hey, if anyone can it has to be the Govt. Let all car owners register their routes and destination on a map and then collaborate with other drivers along your way. Key note: Car owners only for this - so it's an actual car-pool. I think there's something private like this recently started in Bengaluru.

Better management of the commercial transport movement. Whenever a dignitary or a VVIP is moving, the Traffic and the normal police collaborate to rid the route of all comm and loaded vehicles - which probably shouldn't even be there during daytime anyway. Why not enforce this, like, forever?

Guess, I needed to rant.
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Old 10th December 2015, 12:36   #221
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

NEW DELHI: The Delhi government may be targeting private vehicles to check rising air pollution levels, but a study by IIT-Kanpur shows that cars and jeeps contribute less than 10% of particulate matter while trucks are bigger culprits.

A big contributor to Delhi's air pollution is road dust that accounts for about 35% of tiny particles known as PM 2.5 in the air, followed by vehicles, according to a recent study by the Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...campaign=cppst
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/50115310.cms

This study, in effect, reiterates what most sane people have been saying about the issue.
What would the Government have to say on this?

Rather than focusing their attention on mixing-up congestion vs pollution issue, the Government would do well to control dust within city. I understand that they have proposed vacuum cleaning of roads and planting of grass to firm-up the soil, we still need to have a professional plan to counter presence of dust across each area of Delhi.

Last edited by rdhawan15 : 10th December 2015 at 12:37. Reason: added excerpt
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Old 10th December 2015, 12:51   #222
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
What has the govt done about

1. Perpetual traffic jams at known spots. Any reorganisation of traffic?
2. Adulteration of fuel.
3. Two stroke vehicles.
4. Decent alternative transport.
5. Myriads of trucks transiting throught the Delhi area (only now some taxation has been put).
6. Grossly overloaded trucks!
7. Badly potholed roads.
They are calling for suggestions on pollutionfreedelhi@gmail.com. I have sent them a mail with whatever I could think of. All of us can also mail them the suggestion that can be helpful in reducing/eliminating such problems. Who knows, they might implement a few ideas!!

The pollution situation was not created in a day or in a few months. It is a result of more than 3 decades of 'look elsewhere' policy of the government. Now that it is at a critical level something must be done and I sincerely hope that some of the measures will click to bring down the pollution levels.
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Old 10th December 2015, 13:24   #223
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Here is an interesting article that I came across on the odd-even formula -
http://www.caravanmagazine.in/vantag...etter-solution .

From whatever I have read, a better and more viable solution in the long run is peak-load pricing. In case of Delhi, it could be both on roads and metro. It will help reogranize the rush hour load and I'm sure people will adjust their timings to avoid the surcharge. And if it all they want to pay the surcharge then use that to improve the infrastructure, put in place short-term fixes such as vaccuming the roads, etc.
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Old 10th December 2015, 13:41   #224
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

They should first develop public transport, remove encroachment, enforce strict laws for clearing pollution checks and then ask common man to give up personal cars.

Delhi is not a state so technically all orders passed by Govt will not apply to central govt employees and for that matter political class. Similarly it does not apply to all taxis, autos, buses running in bad condition.

Press and other service sector people knowing some one will get away.

Judges will get exempted.

Only you and I are left, and if that is only causing pollution then so be it!
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Old 10th December 2015, 14:13   #225
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by heydj View Post
They should first develop public transport, remove encroachment, enforce strict laws for clearing pollution checks and then ask common man to give up personal cars.
Public transport development is most important and vital step to be taken and on top priority. However, that will take time, may be a couple of years.

Other major issues steps that can be taken immediately are as follows:
  1. Repair bad roads - Major cause of jams. People tend to avoid potholes however small they are and that causes traffic snarls
  2. Force public buses to stop close to the bus stops and on the left most lanes. The buggers stop in the middle of the road without thinking of the jam they are causing. Same with autos and shared taxis.
  3. Goods carriers, including garbage trucks and cement mixers, must not be allowed to ply during peak hours. The three wheeled tempos drive at 25 kmph in the middle of the roads with no regards to traffic behind them
.

All these cause jams and indirectly pollution plus wastage of fuel and man hours.
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