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Old 29th December 2015, 14:57   #316
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

I have seen that in our country most of the times the person whoever talks or tries to do sensible things is most of the time frowned upon or made to suffer by media, public and everyone else. So at the risk of losing the elections, politicians do get scared of taking brave decisions. The politicians from the opposition party are also very smart and proactive in inciting the junta that this move will take away your comfort, its ant-public and what not and Media plays to the audience and uses all its creativity in scaring the public. So finally its left to the courts to decide things in our country and rightly so.

The current CM of Delhi has made a very valid point that they will stop the scheme is they find vehement opposition or massive non-cooperation from the general public. What is my interpretation from this statement is that if general public don't park their cars and drive them ignoring the odd-even rule, then this rule would be scrapped well before 15 days.

So its a golden opportunity for us BHPians who are inconvenienced by the rules to oppose this tooth and nail and make sure we drive our cars daily so that government is defeated. Now few may suffer due to early challans but thats a very small price to pay for the comfort. But make sure you drive all the cars in your house daily.

End of Rant.
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Old 29th December 2015, 15:39   #317
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

I see people supporting the rule seem to consider only two aspects of the whole situation, inconvenience to car owners and access to clean air / environment. And I agree that some of us might be unhappy because of former than latter. But at the same time, without any personal bias whatsoever, we also need to look as to why did we arrive at this juncture (where panic button is the only option) and what can actually be achieved by implementing this rule. As a tax payer, some of the things that led to this situation, and the possible outcomes of this solution, other than cleaner air, tend to worry me. They have been very well documented in this thread and need no repetition.

It is the lack of vision and absolute inaction around issues that can have long-term impact is a cause of concern. A taxpayer will put up with whatever rules / laws are implemented, as it has happened in past. Having said that, as a taxpayer, it is also my right to demand proper solutions to such grave problems, instead of just knee-jerk reactions. Someone rightly mentioned that such solutions are hard decisions that no politician / bureaucrat wants to take. And tomorrow if all of this fails, then the onus again will be on the taxpayer.

Intent is all fine but long-term results is the need of hour.

Last edited by lordvader : 29th December 2015 at 15:51. Reason: spelling
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Old 29th December 2015, 15:41   #318
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

I am a Delhiite and unfortunately, we have a chief minister who is infamous for his knee-jerk reactions and thoughtless plans. Be it the failed Janata Darbar scheme, agitation at India Gate or even calling the Prime Minister names over a CBI raid against one of his officers. He has a habit of going overboard.

This odd-even plan is another gimmick to show people that the government is serious about curbing pollution.

FYI, a recent report by IIT-Kanpur has revealed that road dust and secondary particles emitted from various sources like concrete batching plants, industrial point sources are the primary contributors of pollution in Delhi and NOT Vehicles.

Yes, I agree that vehicles do contribute to the problem but targeting them ALONE is what leaves me enraged. The car-owners are soft targets and this why we the so called “privileged” section is unhappy. Why just us?

Moreover, why two-wheelers have been exempted from this scheme? I read somewhere that there are 56 lakh two-wheelers in Delhi so, don’t they pollute? Shouldn’t they be targeted ate well?

The fact that the “privileged” class is being targeted justifies their being upset.
Moreover don’t make it an issue between the “privileged” and the “unprivileged”.

I am pretty sure if the rule implied on two-wheelers, the “unprivileged” would also react in the same way.

In fact, I believe that the problem lies here, in the segregations and divisions. People will tend to foloow rules if everyone has the fear of being prosecuted. It is wrong to give leeway to a particular group and go hammer and tongs on the other.
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Old 29th December 2015, 16:19   #319
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Well let's hope someone constantly monitors air pollution in Delhi during this period and see if there is any real change in the pollution levels.

A quote that comes to my mind - "A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation"
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Old 29th December 2015, 16:39   #320
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyesice View Post
Well let's hope someone constantly monitors air pollution in Delhi during this period and see if there is any real change in the pollution levels.

A quote that comes to my mind - "A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation"
In the short term it might look like this scheme is making some difference. After all, schools are closed in this period so lot of traffic (of parents/vehicles ferrying kids to/fro schools is not going to be there). People wont be rushing to buy second/third cars on day 1 itself so mostly there would be some reduction in number of vehicles on the road.

However, it is not the optimum testing really to evaluate if it is successful. Ideally there should be testing under normal conditions (meaning no cheating like closing of schools) and over extended time (which gives people ample time to cheat/find workarounds!) Thats what was observed at most places where this kind of scheme was introduced. Some immediate gains but over time situation worsened as people worked out worse alternatives (like buying older second cars).

Prof. Dinesh Mohan of IIT Delhi (probably the best expert on Transportation and Urban Issues in India) also opined along same lines. This policy is being imposed on us without any cost-benefit analysis:
http://indianexpress.com/article/opi...lhi-pollution/

Last edited by joslicx : 29th December 2015 at 16:41.
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Old 29th December 2015, 16:45   #321
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

On a similar note, Milan's banned private vehicles from 17-25 December (which has now been extended till 31 december) due to smog. As a result 1.50 which is one-way urban ticket will now serve as a day pass (which normally costs 4.50).
https://www.comune.milano.it/wps/por...le_giornaliero

This happens in a country which is car dominated, taxes much higher than India, even petrol retails at 1.25 a liter. It should also be noted that schools were off only from 22nd for holidays.

My question in terms of Delhi is, why not do a complete private vehicle stop and flood the roads with more buses (though where from, I got no idea). The odd-even formula, bikes allowed to run, women drivers allowed is just half baked.
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Old 29th December 2015, 16:57   #322
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifer1881 View Post
I don't get this. So I am privileged class. 30% of my income is taxed. On that I pay 14.5% service tax on every transaction I make. The tax on the fuel I buy is 50%. On top of that, if I still manage to save and scrounge and buy a car then you tell me that I should be okay for using it only for half the time.
Yep, the privileged class!! If you consider the point rather deeply, even after paying the 30% IT, VAT on everything, Car and home loan to bank, etc, we still are able to live a decent living in this country. (Decent living, is debatable, but at least with proper food, shelter etc)
Talking about the definitions of poverty line is pointless here, but still there are way too many who live depending on what is distributed through PDS. Lower middle class crowd still make less than one lakh per year, and ride on second hand two wheelers.
If you live in a country like the USA, stuff like car would be basic for all.
But since this is India, owning a car here is indeed a privilege. (If everyone in your neighbourhood owns a car, then it means, you are in one of the best areas).
We can argue that these little comforts that we have got (such our cars) are denied in the name of pollution control (and any other reason), and we are made to travel the same old buses, then where is the fruit for working hard in this society. Way beyond our discussion, but I would maintain that, since the city's pollution levels have raised to all time highs, we should do our bit, by leaving our comfort at home for three days a week and take buses instead
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Old 29th December 2015, 21:31   #323
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

While the aren't proper hybrids, would the Maruti Suzuki Ciaz & Ertiga SVHS models be exempt from this rule, given that they benefit from the FAME schemes for hybrid vehicles?
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Old 30th December 2015, 02:01   #324
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

The logic behind this initiative is flawed. This plan should not be implemented on the whole city. What they could do was to implement this plan in the various congested parts of the city but definitely not the main arterial roads such as the outer and inner ring roads.

I stay in Haryana, Sonepat to be precise. To reach any part of U.P. or the rest of India for that matter, I have to pass through the national capital. There is no other way at all! Also, for people living further north in Punjab, Himachal Pradesh etc, this will really be problematic.

They should first develop better connecting roads outside the N.C.R. territory before implementing such a plan. The KMP expressway and the Eastern peripheral expressway which have been in the pipeline for ages would have helped in such a situation.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:31   #325
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

There's no sense to this madness. I think the SC will save the day - i heard that the KMP Expressway hearings will close soon, paving the way for its restart and eventual completion! http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/resume-work-on-e-way-in-3-months-sc-tells-haryana/36161.html http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/kundli-manesar-section-of-kmp-expressway-gets-haryana-cabinet-nod-115072800875_1.html

Hell, the SC's directive to levy environment fee is supposed to have led to a sizeable reduction in the trucks coming via delhi.
http://www.financialexpress.com/arti...ax-ngt/147453/

I think EVERYONE of those non-delhi destined trucks should be stopped in Gurgaon itself, and told to use the Rewari-Panipat route rather than come into NCR. Why is that not happening? Because our netas are idiots and don't care about data.
http://aqi.indiaspend.org/aq/breathe/ - gurgaon AQI was at max level from 6pm onwards till now. Guess how many cars were running at 4am? Hardly any. On the other hand, thousands of trucks were driving through delhi/gurgaon roads at that time.

This ONE thing can help alleviate delhi pollution as much if not much more than Kejri's tamasha.

Last edited by phamilyman : 30th December 2015 at 09:35.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:41   #326
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

What about those who wish to travel outside delhi or are coming back home from some other city ?
Now travel plans will also depend on which number plate do you own. Foolish !!
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:45   #327
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Also, I saw a report today that the contribution of cars to the micro-particulates may be as low as 2.5%. Good publicity, look I have stopped cars, and no more. Typical AK tactics.
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Old 30th December 2015, 10:12   #328
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyesice View Post
A quote that comes to my mind - "A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation"
Absolutely, Indians are a funny lot in almost all ways. On the one hand they chant slogans of a great nation for hundreds of years and on the other they have this obsession with U.S, they want the American life and try everything on earth to get it, the hundreds of American companies present here are only helping this hopeless cause.

The truth is that there can be only one supreme nation, just one U.S, not everything can be counted by GDP or gross output. India is a poor nation - face it. India has 3x the population of U.S with 1/3rd the land area and maybe 1 trillionth the infrastructure. European nations are about the size of Indian states but their population is far far lower per sq.mile than India can ever dream of. The Indian automobile scene was never supposed to grow this big and we're facing the consequences of it today, I only shudder to think if all this so called "economy growth" leads to more people buying wheels for the first time then we've had it.

People who say that automobiles aren't the key source of pollution in Delhi are correct, I myself am aware that due to the small/medium scale industries & rampant construction by builders, the pollution by particulate matter gets much worse. On the other hand I'm also aware of Delhi's obsession with cars.. as per a recent study it was pointed out that Delhi+NCR combined had more cars than Bangalore, Chennai & Mumbai combined. Yes 3 major metro cities with a combined sq.km count of 1800 sq.km have lesser cars than the area of Old Delhi+New Delhi+NCR roughly 1600 sq.km, with added point of the majority of the vehicles passing via or around Delhi ring-roads to other portions of NCR, hence Delhi gets the additional volume of traffic smoke.

I see this move as a preventive measure, to make the people stop and think what would happen if one day cars grow to such an extent that nothing can be done to reverse it. Residents of Delhi are no strangers to 2 hours/3 hours long traffic jams enroute to NCR, what if it gets worse? I would also welcome this move in other equally unplanned-growth big cities such as Pune & Bangalore. This move may not improve pollution by all that much but this is required nonetheless to de-clog the roads. Removal of old buses, implementation of perhaps the best planned metro rail in the country, moving all autos to CNG, nothing has worked in reducing car population. This industry has to be curbed now, that is the bitter truth. Short of that there must be atleast 7-8 more major metro cities for the ravaging masses to destroy than to time and again depend on the already-overfull cities like Bangalore, Mumbai & Delhi.
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Old 30th December 2015, 10:24   #329
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

We always crib that government is not taking any action and is merely sitting and watching our cities getting ruined. Now that they have taken one initiative to try and save our lungs, still we are criticizing.
We need to understand that this is for our own benefit and is on TRIAL basis to check and see how effective it is. It might pinch a little bit initially but I am sure this will show us a path on how things can be improved. Someone mentioned earlier that he is paying all sort of taxes and has all the rights to pollute the environment. My friend, if things works like this then one day you'll be waiting in a queue to buy fresh air for your kids cursing yourself for ruining their future.
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Old 30th December 2015, 11:29   #330
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

The more articles I read about the odd-even plan, the more I am led to believe that his decision wasn't backed by data at all.

Here are a few excerpts from a BusinessToday article.
  1. Only 5.3 lakh cars can be kept off roads on any day. And that's a meagre 6.27 per cent.
  2. 55.7 lakh two-wheelers which are the biggest vehicular polluters (32 per cent) in Delhi - are exempted
  3. Transport sector contributes nearly 22 per cent to air pollution of which cars emit only 5 per cent and hence restricting 5 lakh-odd vehicles would make no major difference
  4. Diesel-run trucks account for nearly 28 per cent of vehicular pollution
  5. The number of two-wheelers in Delhi is more than double the number of private cars.
  6. Experts claimed replacing cars with buses would not only add to congestion on roads but also cause more pollution
  7. There will be a mad rush among the upper middle class to buy old cars
  8. Rise in number of old vehicles will prove more harmful for the environment

Source: http://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/...ry/227579.html

Honestly speaking, I see no rationale behind this exercise after all these numbers. The effort undertaken is not commensurate with the potential outcome. If anything, introducing car-pooling and pushing the idea is the way to go. If you can reduce five cars to just one, you are reducing pollution by 80% almost (A bit more if Volkswagens are taken off the road ). Moreover, free flowing traffic will also reduce the amount of time vehicles spend on the road thereby reducing pollution further. Extending the same rules to two-wheelers will also make a considerable difference to the pollution and the traffic.

Speaking of Volkswagen, can the RTOs check the Volkswagens, Audis and the Skodas affected by the emissions-scandal to check if they have undergone the recall procedures by Volkswagen? Might not sound like much, but I do believe that the capital will have a sizable number of these cars.

Last edited by ashwin.terminat : 30th December 2015 at 11:34.
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