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Old 2nd January 2016, 12:03   #361
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
As expected the outcome is not very encouraging.
That's right and I don't have too much hope on reducing PM 2.5 by this scheme.

Reason:
Total pollution due to vehicles: ~16%
Out of which, private cars are very less.
Most private cars are driven to the office for 1 hour, parked for 8-10 hours and driven home for 1.5 hours.
Cabs and commercial vehicles are driven all the time. They aren't well maintained too.

I think this system is good to reduce road traffic.
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Old 2nd January 2016, 14:51   #362
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Myself and wife went out today for doctor's appointment in an auto. First one refused to take us on meter while the second one agreed. He was more keen on taking short cuts but we told him to go via main roads only. There were no jams across Rohini, Pitampura till Punjabi Bagh like yesterday . During return we hopped in and out from battery operated rickshaws to school buses plying on DTC routes with a bit of hassle. Buses were neat with very less occupancy. No arguments as such.

We both have decided not to take out cars tomorrow i.e. Sunday, for outing and family activities. Will use metro and other means. Its a long weekend with nice weather around, don't think will be much of a problem.

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Now its being contemplated that the next phase when it occurs, is going to have lesser exemptions....I will not be willing to put my wife and child in a metro or an auto in the freezing cold or the scalding sun, basically to any sort of inconvenience. No sir. You need to work harder than this....
Yes lots of work needs to be done on strengthening public transport specially in NCR towns like Noida, Gurgaon, Ghzbd, Faridabad etc. Except metro, other means of public transport often becomes nightmare when autos go without meter solely on driver's mood. Cab rides are far away from safety.

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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
..People figured out that police can't check numbers in the dark so there were plenty of even number cars. Mark my words. Monday will be chaos when everyone has to go to work.
I noticed this yesterday between 6.30 - 8 p.m, many even numbered vehicles came out in the dark and what Civil defence or traffic cops were doing at that time? Another catch if you take flyovers one after another non stop signal free, you're less likely to get caught and penalized.

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Originally Posted by asingh1977 View Post
It is going to be a diametrically different situation on Monday and also Tuesday. Tuesday will have the maximum public on the roads. I dread what Rajiv Chowk will be like between 8:30 - 11:00 AM. I doubt people will be able to use the internal foot over bridge to change lines, forget even about boarding the metros. Women,kids, and the elderly should avoid Rajiv Chowk. There might even be a stampede. Sorry to sound cynical, but it is in our Indian tendency to push and shove for a target, irrespective of man, animal, or weed.

Last edited by OneToughRider : 2nd January 2016 at 14:56. Reason: corrections
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Old 2nd January 2016, 15:04   #363
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/50412326.cms
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Old 3rd January 2016, 06:32   #364
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
Changes are not going to happen overnight, we need to wait and watch.
Lets not be judgemental in less than 12 hours since the rule was enforced
And one should remember, that cars arent a major source of pollution.
Cars are not a major source of pollution, so cars should be banned for half the days?
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Old 3rd January 2016, 09:20   #365
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
In Beijing, it took a 2 weeks to clear up. See the difference here :
http://thelogicalindian.com/news/the...even-car-rule/
Yes, but here's the kicker - even there the government shut down thousands of coal fired units in a large radius and shut down factories. Here in Delhi - they haven't even banned all trucks from entering delhi, forget about mildly disciplining the Rapid Metro with its terrible dust problem. Let's not draw comparisons without a detailed read!

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Contrary to some (or most) of the opinions posted on this thread I am fully in favour of this scheme and am hoping for its success and further expansion to two wheelers, the brick kilns, the truckers and then to action against government works departments who dig up the pavements and leave the mud covered debris to fly around adding to the fine dust pollution.
You sir with your fine intentions are as much a part of the problem as is Kejri. There is so little information to support the Odd Even ban (its great for traffic management, sure!) as a way to achieve the drastic pollution reduction we need - for a party that once sought public opinion poll on forming a government, they didn't even consult the scientists on the path with the highest leverage for pollution reduction! Had all scientists said that, I would've gladly agreed. Here's what one of India's foremost globally renowned traffic experts says:
http://indianexpress.com/article/opi...lhi-pollution/
(basically supporting the Gurgaon car-free days!)
Quote:
The global evidence suggests that the best policy is restricting car-use. This can be achieved by enforcing stricter parking restrictions at all locations, including offices, and by making people pay for the parking. This should be accompanied by lifting the restrictions on the auto-rickshaws and taxis plying in the NCR region.
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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
The affluent's will simply buy enough odd number and even number cars. Not so affluent will consider a cheaper alternate number car.

I would simply buy an even number car may be a Na no to commute on those alternate days.

I fear now the mindset changes to buying more cars, bribe for numbers and registration and all possible corrupt practice's than actually fixing the pollution issue.

Time to incentivice electric cars, build enough charging station and even provide additional benefits to return ones gasoline car in exchange of electric ones.


Provide discount's at different things if your family is run only on electric cars.

Punishing does not help as the country is built on bribe.
Exactly. There needs to be better long term solutions

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Originally Posted by OneToughRider View Post
Yes lots of work needs to be done on strengthening public transport specially in NCR towns like Noida, Gurgaon, Ghzbd, Faridabad etc. Except metro, other means of public transport often becomes nightmare when autos go without meter solely on driver's mood. Cab rides are far away from safety.
Precisely. You cannot ram through such solutions without detailed planning and long term solutions or stakeholder engagement. I don't recall Kejriwal or his ministers sitting down with their Haryana counterparts to work out solutions.
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Old 3rd January 2016, 09:54   #366
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

AK claims reduction in pollution, TERI claims marginal increase in some areas. In any case Saturday was part of long weekend, so let us see today. Delhi govt. bought 11 more Innovas for the mantris - one point how could they get 2.5 lires Diesels in Delhi. All for a fortnight, since AK accepts that the odd-even plan is not practical.
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Old 3rd January 2016, 10:12   #367
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Yes, but here's the kicker - even there the government shut down thousands of coal fired units in a large radius and shut down factories. Here in Delhi - they haven't even banned all trucks from entering delhi, forget about mildly disciplining the Rapid Metro with its terrible dust problem. Let's not draw comparisons without a detailed read!


You sir with your fine intentions are as much a part of the problem as is Kejri. There is so little information to support the Odd Even ban (its great for traffic management, sure!) as a way to achieve the drastic pollution reduction we need - for a party that once sought public opinion poll on forming a government, they didn't even consult the scientists on the path with the highest leverage for pollution reduction! Had all scientists said that, I would've gladly agreed. Here's what one of India's foremost globally renowned traffic experts says:
http://indianexpress.com/article/opi...lhi-pollution/
(basically supporting the Gurgaon car-free days!)



Exactly. There needs to be better long term solutions


Precisely. You cannot ram through such solutions without detailed planning and long term solutions or stakeholder engagement. I don't recall Kejriwal or his ministers sitting down with their Haryana counterparts to work out solutions.
Playing devil's advocate here, pick any picture of a traffic jam in Delhi and tell me what is the ratio of cars to trucks? With that aside, what immediate solution do you propose to ban truck entry in NCR? How are you going to manage the transportation?

I totally agree that better long terms solutions are needed and it includes redesigning the roads scientifically, passing laws to curb dusty construction methods, improving public transport most specifically making sure it stays cheap but augmenting it by making sure they are punctual, clean and safe. We also need to make sure that there is reasonable space for pedestrian movements which would mean clearing encroachments which in turn would mean doing something about the roadside hawkers so that they do not loose their livelihood. The point is of course it is a long term solution but it has to start from somewhere. If we can make the middle class sacrifice some of their comforts for the betterment of the environment, the rest will take care of itself. Please also realise that this is an unpopular decision as far as masses are concerned and it could even mean hurting their vote bank.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 3rd January 2016 at 10:13.
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Old 3rd January 2016, 10:39   #368
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Playing devil's advocate here, pick any picture of a traffic jam in Delhi and tell me what is the ratio of cars to trucks? With that aside, what immediate solution do you propose to ban truck entry in NCR? How are you going to manage the transportation?

I totally agree that better long terms solutions are needed and it includes redesigning the roads scientifically, passing laws to curb dusty construction methods, improving public transport most specifically making sure it stays cheap but augmenting it by making sure they are punctual, clean and safe. We also need to make sure that there is reasonable space for pedestrian movements which would mean clearing encroachments which in turn would mean doing something about the roadside hawkers so that they do not loose their livelihood. The point is of course it is a long term solution but it has to start from somewhere. If we can make the middle class sacrifice some of their comforts for the betterment of the environment, the rest will take care of itself. Please also realise that this is an unpopular decision as far as masses are concerned and it could even mean hurting their vote bank.
a. Issue was pollution. Jams contribute to it but are not the ONLY source of pollution.
Banning trucks is easy except on NH24 - push all trucks into Gurgaon or onwards to rewari and there to Rohtak/Panipat. or hike diesel prices in delhi (which attract them!) or set up pumps to only dispense ten liters of diesel at a time, making it impossible to fill up trucks.
Only delhi-destined trucks should be allowed to enter delhi!

b. Current laws prevent dusty construction. it just needs to be enforced. Far easier to enforce with zero externalities than restricting cars - the only casualty will be the bribes that the inspectors would have otherwise gotten.

Again, the tone that you have taken is that something is better than nothing, but to my mind - they have been in power since Feb, and the data has always been out there. There's still no rationale why they jumped on ONE decision, and didn't bother to even consult with scientists just does not go down well with me as a great model for governance that intrudes into our daily lives.

Of course, Kudos to AAP for taking a potentially unpopular decision.

PS: In my mind, the approach should always be to speak to the best scientists, and apply the simplest / most elegant / lowest (social/financial) cost solution first. Odd even fails on every count.

Last edited by phamilyman : 3rd January 2016 at 10:48.
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Old 3rd January 2016, 11:20   #369
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Yes, but here's the kicker - even there the government shut down thousands of coal fired units in a large radius and shut down factories. Here in Delhi - they haven't even banned all trucks from entering delhi, forget about mildly disciplining the Rapid Metro with its terrible dust problem. Let's not draw comparisons without a detailed read!
People are expecting a difference in a day's time. Beijing with all its other steps included took 2 weeks, so patience.
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Old 3rd January 2016, 12:33   #370
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Please also realise that this is an unpopular decision as far as masses are concerned and it could even mean hurting their vote bank.
As far as vote bank is concerned, from what I know, middle class or upper middle class is not exactly what they are after.

Mr. Gopal Rai in one of the interviews said that they are trying to solve for congestion and which will in some ways solve the pollution. Again there are better ways than the one they have agreed to go ahead with. I have an issue with these guys calling it a mass movement and naming it a huge success even before pollution levels are impacted. I'm apolitical but things like this make me cynical about their intention.
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Old 3rd January 2016, 17:25   #371
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
a. Issue was pollution. Jams contribute to it but are not the ONLY source of pollution.
Banning trucks is easy except on NH24 - push all trucks into Gurgaon or onwards to rewari and there to Rohtak/Panipat.
Only delhi-destined trucks should be allowed to enter delhi!
Just FYI sir, there is a Rs1500 entry tax for diesel trucks in addition to the existing toll tax wef 29.12.2015. Till a day earlier it was Rs 750. This amount entitles the truck a single entry into Delhi. It's not even valid for a day.

Happened to be in one such truck which was towing my bike back to Delhi on GT Road and had to listen in to the entire conversation. They were humorously referring to it as Kejriwal tax. Apparently such makeshift collection camps have been set up outside all entry points into Delhi.

My truck driver felt this amount was unprecedented & massive. There was no way any truck driver would pay it unless they had real business to be inside Delhi.

Sharing this because I'm not sure if people posting in this thread about the issue of trucks in the city are aware of it.
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Old 3rd January 2016, 19:00   #372
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by lordvader View Post
As far as vote bank is concerned, from what I know, middle class or upper middle class is not exactly what they are after.

Mr. Gopal Rai in one of the interviews said that they are trying to solve for congestion and which will in some ways solve the pollution. Again there are better ways than the one they have agreed to go ahead with. I have an issue with these guys calling it a mass movement and naming it a huge success even before pollution levels are impacted. I'm apolitical but things like this make me cynical about their intention.
Exactly. Kejriwal would've protected his vote bank before such a move - of all the things he might do, political suicide is not one of them (IMHO he and modi and lalu are the three most shrewd politicians in India today!)

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Originally Posted by outofthebox View Post
Just FYI sir, there is a Rs1500 entry tax for diesel trucks in addition to the existing toll tax wef 29.12.2015. Till a day earlier it was Rs 750. This amount entitles the truck a single entry into Delhi. It's not even valid for a day.

Happened to be in one such truck which was towing my bike back to Delhi on GT Road and had to listen in to the entire conversation. They were humorously referring to it as Kejriwal tax. Apparently such makeshift collection camps have been set up outside all entry points into Delhi.

My truck driver felt this amount was unprecedented & massive. There was no way any truck driver would pay it unless they had real business to be inside Delhi.

Sharing this because I'm not sure if people posting in this thread about the issue of trucks in the city are aware of it.
Exactly my point. That substantiates my friend's off the cuff comment that upto 60,000 trucks are not entering Delhi anymore. 1500 more than covers for any cheap diesel, time savings or any toll savings they might have encountered by taking delhi routes.

Unfortunately this is the EPCA's (Supreme Court) brainchild, but they are blaming Kejriwal.

IMHO this is what will sustainably help reduce pollution in a few weeks once everyone learns about it and there's 100% compliance. But Kejriwal will stake claim on the pollution reduction nevertheless
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Old 3rd January 2016, 19:13   #373
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

The joker has bought 11 Innova's for his Ministers, to beat the odd-even rule. Now I think Innova is 2.5 litres, somewhat bigger than the 2L limit!! Not good PR!!
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Old 3rd January 2016, 21:16   #374
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

http://www.dailypioneer.com/city/gov...n-formula.html

This reminds me of the song - Main karu toh raasleela, tu kare toh character dheela
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Old 4th January 2016, 05:11   #375
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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The joker has bought 11 Innova's for his Ministers, to beat the odd-even rule. Now I think Innova is 2.5 litres, somewhat bigger than the 2L limit!! Not good PR!!
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Originally Posted by SwatiS View Post
http://www.dailypioneer.com/city/gov...n-formula.html

This reminds me of the song - Main karu toh raasleela, tu kare toh character dheela
We cannot even decide which car did his government bought? There is one media outlet who is reporting this and we have passed a guilty verdict without even listening to the other side. I guess we are a better community of people than those who come across a randon photoshopped post on facebook and start baying for the blood.
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