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Old 4th January 2016, 15:23   #406
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by Manoj2268 View Post
Rohini 7 to Noida 63... We have 3 cars(all odd numbers). Elder brother and Dad take one for work, younger brother needs the CNG car as he is in Marketing. I drive the diesel to work everyday.

I dont travel by metro unless I have the evening shift.

I would have to probably work evenings till this blows over..
It is effectively 5 working days for you. Why don't you take Uber pool for 5 days?

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No one is opposing "decent" package. We are arguing about what is decent. I would argue 3.5 L per month is indecent in its own way for public service. I am not expecting them to make do at 10 K per month.
The breakup is quite clear on how much they get and how much they need to spend on their constituencies.
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Have clear rules with NO exceptions. Make everything first come first serve, no recommendations, no quotas. Independent techno-economic comparison (with blanked names if necessary) to award contracts. Many things have been done in many places - successfully.
Exceptions are necessary. CNG is least polluting fuel and should be allowed; Men find it difficult to use public transport in present form so those females who can drive should be exempted. The exemption should be removed when public transport is better. I think a lot of people have issued with exempting female drivers and their reasons are beyond me.

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This is what we expect to get on the 15th day in terms of pollution levels at these places?
Then lets wait till 16th. Kejriwal government might be proved completely wrong by the results.

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Then you debate whether there is sufficient causality or sufficient impact to go ahead with this move. The debate will be on science and economics, not opinion.
Exactly. But if it brings down pollution level by 10-15%, I will consider it a success. In fact any reduction is a positive impact.

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Well obvious - this is being driven by a particular political disposition. Their bhakts will cry success, opponents will cry failure. Data will be manipulated / interpreted in myriad ways.
I do not get it. What is AAP gaining out of this? It can be foolish decision but i do not see any political benefit that they can reap out of this. I do not care what political parties will have to say after completion of this formula. All I know that I will suffer for 5 days and in the end I will know if my 5 days of suffering was worth it or not. That will be judged by the data published by CPCB or similar organisation.

If the toxic and poisonous air is cleaned a bit by this step then we should all be thankful to all those who suffered for those 5 days.

Last edited by sourabhzen : 4th January 2016 at 15:24.
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:24   #407
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

3.5L is in no way a decent salary and is way more than what is required to live a comfortable life, specially when you already get free home, free medical assistance, free telephones, free electricity, free travel, free servants, daily allowances, special allowances and what not. I am surprised that there are actually some people who think this was a rational and wise decision to hike their salary to such an extent.

As far as this rule is concerned, it has loop holes. No doubt about it. The government had to come with a measure to tackle the pollution because of court's order, and this was the easiest of the solutions. If it fails, you blame it on people, opposition and if it succeeds, you take all the credit.
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:45   #408
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Indeed supportive of this. This will lead to lot of good things - not just cleaner air, but commute pooling, public transport getting better, etc etc.
The added incentive, the days you are driving - you will love it lot more

But this would solve 10% of the pollution problems - how about the remaining 90%?
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:45   #409
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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The breakup is quite clear on how much they get and how much they need to spend on their constituencies.
No it is not. Currently most people show their family members as secretaries and get secretary allowance, for example. Any new measures / checks? I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
Exceptions are necessary. CNG is least polluting fuel and should be allowed; Men find it difficult to use public transport in present form so those females who can drive should be exempted. The exemption should be removed when public transport is better. I think a lot of people have issued with exempting female drivers and their reasons are beyond me.
I was not talking about exceptions in this case. I was talking about corruption - the only sure shot way of doing so is reduce ad hoc-ism to the extent possible. I don't think anyone is arguing that there is corruption behind this drive.




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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
Exactly. But if it brings down pollution level by 10-15%, I will consider it a success. In fact any reduction is a positive impact.


I do not get it. What is AAP gaining out of this? It can be foolish decision but i do not see any political benefit that they can reap out of this. I do not care what political parties will have to say after completion of this formula. All I know that I will suffer for 5 days and in the end I will know if my 5 days of suffering was worth it or not. That will be judged by the data published by CPCB or similar organisation.

If the toxic and poisonous air is cleaned a bit by this step then we should all be thankful to all those who suffered for those 5 days.
Our positions are not very different you know. I am also fine with a 15 day experiment. Only thing is: I expect the objective and measure to be clearly articulated before I conduct an experiment. And that reduces the politics - makes things transparent.

Last edited by chinkara : 4th January 2016 at 15:47.
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:50   #410
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Shouldn't Rajeev Chowk NOT have been hell, before trying to push people onto the metro?
Of what consequence is being a regular commuter or otherwise?
I agree - question is, is it worse than normal? Metro frequency could have been increased, for example - a part of what I was saying earlier about "tying loose ends".
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:54   #411
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by Engine_Roars View Post
3.5L is in no way a decent salary and is way more than what is required to live a comfortable life, specially when you already get free home, free medical assistance, free telephones, free electricity, free travel, free servants, daily allowances, special allowances and what not. I am surprised that there are actually some people who think this was a rational and wise decision to hike their salary to such an extent.

As far as this rule is concerned, it has loop holes. No doubt about it. The government had to come with a measure to tackle the pollution because of court's order, and this was the easiest of the solutions. If it fails, you blame it on people, opposition and if it succeeds, you take all the credit.
Your doubts will be cleared if you look at the detail of salary breakups.

It was the easiest way out but will fail completely if long term solutions are not found. If it fails, we suffer and if it succeed, well, it we who gain the most. Let anyone take the credit, the success will be on the people who suffered in this period.

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Originally Posted by Equus View Post
Indeed supportive of this. This will lead to lot of good things - not just cleaner air, but commute pooling, public transport getting better, etc etc.
The added incentive, the days you are driving - you will love it lot more

But this would solve 10% of the pollution problems - how about the remaining 90%?
Well, we as a forum should propose solutions for remaining 90%. If you have it share it here. We can also send mails to governments and organisations with our suggestions.

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Our positions are not very different you know. I am also fine with a 15 day experiment. Only thing is: I expect the objective and measure to be clearly articulated before I conduct an experiment. And that reduces the politics - makes things transparent.
I want the government to go beyond this 15 days experiment and find permanent cure to this disease. Temporary solutions will not be beneficial in the long run. We need concrete steps for cleaner air. I hope we get some ideas that can be shared in this regard.

And yes, corruption and ad-hoc-ism define India. Though, you will agree that not all cars will be allowed and not all trucks can enter Delhi now even if they pay the bribes. This, in turn, will serve the purpose. Also, people who flout the rule will try to take the corrupt way out. Other will just comply.

Last edited by sourabhzen : 4th January 2016 at 16:03.
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:58   #412
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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I agree - question is, is it worse than normal? Metro frequency could have been increased, for example - a part of what I was saying earlier about "tying loose ends".
The metro is apparently running at peak frequency throughout. At rajiv chowk, that just means that you get to the front of the sardine packing queue quicker. Apparently all will soon be 8 coach ones.
Soon, we will also have marked off(not cordoned off) bus lanes so that buses dont jam up roads, run over people etc.
Soon, we will also have a thousands of new buses, and fixed up older ones too.
Also, we can expect auto drivers to fall in line, and not overcharge, and not deny rides.
This will drive people to, er, not drive.

But apparently horse before cart is easier.
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Old 4th January 2016, 16:13   #413
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

After today's drive to office (IP Ext to Mohan co-op via Ashram), I must say this just might turn out to be a masterstroke from AK. I'm hearing positive experiences from other car users so the ends might 'just' justify the means. Not sure about the pollution levels but the reduced congestion will definitely have a feel-good factor.

I'm assuming that the proportion of car users shifting to car pool would be higher than the ones using public transport for the next few days. So, from a public transport perspective, metros / buses won't be as jam-packed as I was expecting them to be. It will definitely not be more than the day when buses were on strike. It was MAYHEM, sheer MAYHEM!! with that in mind, the inconvenience threshold for a regular metro user has been set very high and which is why the difference will not be discernible to them. All in all, there won't be any drastic reactions anywhere, making this a successful experiment, for reasons other than intended.

EDIT: After looking at these pics, I feel I may have jumped the gun, but still how much of this was due to car users using metro?

Last edited by lordvader : 4th January 2016 at 16:26.
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Old 4th January 2016, 16:14   #414
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

Some pictures of Rajiv ChowkName:  12472246_1073923465961760_1647371652262767949_n.jpg
Views: 842
Size:  50.0 KB

Name:  10599237_1119122221461905_3589903543836739735_n.jpg
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Size:  88.9 KB

Source:

Fb wall
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Old 4th January 2016, 16:17   #415
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by Manoj2268 View Post
Some pictures of Rajiv ChowkAttachment 1456485

Attachment 1456486

Source:

Fb wall
Came to post the same but you beat me to it.
God bless the ones who had to suffer this. I will prefer taking a cab instead of becoming a walking sandwich.

Couple of more pics from whatsapp.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by harry10 : 4th January 2016 at 16:20.
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Old 4th January 2016, 16:55   #416
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat View Post
The more articles I read about the odd-even plan, the more I am led to believe that his decision wasn't backed by data at all.[*]55.7 lakh two-wheelers which are the biggest vehicular polluters (32 per cent) in Delhi - are exempted

Speaking of Volkswagen, can the RTOs check the Volkswagens, Audis and the Skodas affected by the emissions-scandal to check if they have undergone the recall procedures by Volkswagen? Might not sound like much, but I do believe that the capital will have a sizable number of these cars.
I was talking to the principal author of the IITK report. Thankfully, the number of two stroke 2-wheelers is nearly zero. But two wheelers do tend to be poorly maintained. Also, hardly any have PI!

As, for the VAG group is concerned, he feels they should have no issues meeting BS-IV. A lot of their test data as submitted to ARAI, is highly suspect, far rosier that it should have been. They went over the top due to Euro-VI and esp. the US spec which ask for the same performance from petrols and diesels. Also, most of India is still BS-III!

Let us go the Euro-VI and then we should see Mercedes Blue in India!!

Last edited by sgiitk : 4th January 2016 at 16:57.
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Old 4th January 2016, 17:06   #417
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by Manoj2268 View Post
Some pictures of Rajiv Chowk
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
Came to post the same but you beat me to it.
God bless the ones who had to suffer this. I will prefer taking a cab instead of becoming a walking sandwich.

Couple of more pics from whatsapp.
There are three options for me after looking at these pictures:
  1. Take 5 days leave (most economical)
  2. Reach office before 8 and leave after 8 (read: TORTURE)
  3. Take Uber/Ola instead (Most expensive)
Whatever it is, public transport is completely out of question.

I witnessed similar situation in Rajiv Chowk on a Sunday last month, now I can not imagine how worse can it get.

Last edited by sourabhzen : 4th January 2016 at 17:07.
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Old 4th January 2016, 17:19   #418
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Came to post the same but you beat me to it.
God bless the ones who had to suffer this. I will prefer taking a cab instead of becoming a walking sandwich.

Couple of more pics from whatsapp.
The situation looks like a stampede.
But it is all for a good cause. Does it really matter, if you lose your shirt in this mad rush to catch the train, when the overall pollution levels have come down a little bit? Of course not, you can take it. After all, you are allowed to drive tomorrow, when someone else will get to have their shirts torn.
It is all for just 15 days. After that, below are the possibilities:
a) Government declares that pollution levels have significantly reduced, backed up with reliable data - thus proving their success.
b) Government declares that pollution levels have not changed a bit, and discontinues the scheme, allowing the people to go back to their old routines.
c) And this could be really a nightmare - Government considers, the level of pollution has reduced, but not by large, and also seeing that this scheme reduces traffic congestion significantly, decides to restart the scheme and let it run for the whole year. All institutions will be running, and it will not be very wild to predict that within few days, the public transport staff will go on strike unable to handle huge crowds!

I really hope they end up with a), so there is something good for the people out of this mayhem.

Last edited by hybridpetrol : 4th January 2016 at 17:27.
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Old 4th January 2016, 17:23   #419
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The situation looks like a stampede.
This actually begs the question what if there is actually a stampede in such a situation!! too horrible to imagine.
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Old 4th January 2016, 17:28   #420
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Default re: Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days*Edit: website launched for feedback*

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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
Came to post the same but you beat me to it.
God bless the ones who had to suffer this. I will prefer taking a cab instead of becoming a walking sandwich.

Couple of more pics from whatsapp.
Are these pictures validated? Heard reports that 2014 Diwali pictures are being circulated as odd even crowd.
If these pictures are indeed true, I would prefer to walk even a distance of 10Km rather than being part of such a crowd.
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