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Old 12th December 2015, 10:46   #16
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

This will affect the poor the most. The rich can afford to buy multiple cars - Petrol, Diesel, Odd and Even number plates. They will ensure that personal transport is not affected.

Before implementing any hare brained idea, the authorities should take care of the basics, in this case commuter transport. How do you expect those who have irregular timings, come home late or have no bus/metro stops nearby to stop using personal transport and start using public transport.

Take the case of Buses and Metro in Delhi. There is practically no service between 11PM and 5AM, so if you go to a party or attend a function that is ending late, how do yoy manage with public transport?

Again stopping registration of Diesel vehicles in Delhi does not matter, People will register them in NCR. Even now a lot of vehicles that ply in Delhi, are registerd in Haryana, UP and Uttarakhand.
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Old 12th December 2015, 11:16   #17
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

With all the hue and cry on odd and even cars, there is no denying that this will help ease congestion at peak hours and reduce pollution even from unrationed parties as a side effect. With overall car usage declining as an after effect, this may even lead to Diesels no longer making economic sense for a majority of the people and hence the Govt. wouldn't need to ban them.

Evening outings will still be possible as usual because the restrictions are only till 8pm.

With the advent of smartphones and technology all around us, apps like Ryde help us carpool efficiently, PayTM and other wallet apps reduce the awkwardness of paying a non commercial car-owner for your travel.


Metro is not the only remaining mode of air-conditioned transport. Look around! We have affordable transportation all around us! If enough people start carpooling, maybe the Govt. wouldn't need to keep the odd/even rule for too long and what we will be left with is an efficient model for the entire country to follow.
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Old 12th December 2015, 12:22   #18
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Default re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

It will be better if they ban Sale / Registration of Diesel vehicles for commercial use to begin with . Most of Call Centre / OLA / Uber Calls have made mockery of CNG usage rules and needs to be discouraged but problem will be MUV - there are simply no options from manufacturers . Add to these Diesel Car / MUV there are plenty of Trucks using Delhi to cross over . Why can't they simply Ban such trucks from entering Delhi who have no business here ?
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Old 12th December 2015, 14:24   #19
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Default Re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

In my opinion, curbs on diesel car usage is expected to be imposed in the future. Only question is, how long it is going to it?

It is not just New Delhi, many cities in the world have plans to curb the diesel car usage.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/no-...-hate-diesels/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...in-cities.html
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Old 12th December 2015, 14:26   #20
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post
This is so true. These noisy pseudo-environmentalists often work for vested interests and do more damage to the environment, among other things.
It was rumored that they had been paid off by the Gurgaon lot to try and stall the Tata Indica. It is the same bunch who got caught out in the pesticides in soft drinks story (should I call it a scam)

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
And we all know what companies like VW did to work around the strict pollution norms for diesel cars in US. It is a fact that Diesel vehicles emit more pollutants (even carcinogenic) than petrol cars. It will be insanely expensive for the automotive industries to match petrol and diesel emission norms. So they look for shortcuts like VW did.
Diesel pollution is different, very low on COx, High on solids. If Diesel is clean (which it is not) then these can comply. A swallow does not make summer, and VAG are getting their just punishment. Merc and others can meet these norms legally.

Pray why is Diesel kept below petrol while in many developed economies it is at par or even higher? Tax them the same and the balance will change very fast.
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Old 12th December 2015, 17:47   #21
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
It will be better if they ban Sale / Registration of Diesel vehicles for commercial use to begin with . Most of Call Centre / OLA / Uber Calls have made mockery of CNG usage rules and needs to be discouraged but problem will be MUV - there are simply no options from manufacturers . Add to these Diesel Car / MUV there are plenty of Trucks using Delhi to cross over . Why can't they simply Ban such trucks from entering Delhi who have no business here ?
In reality, commercial vehicles cause less of a problem. Because call-center/OLA/uber are either used by multiple people or are expensive to use, so unsuited for regular usage. So, per capita emission will be far lesser.

And oen can't wish away fuel economy of diesel in long distance transport. i.e. If you want to travel 100s of kilo meter frequently, a petrol vehicle becomes impractical - both from fuel economy perspective, as well as longevity (Modern Diesel engines seem to last longer than Petrol engines due to their sturdy construction).

Besides, one can't have trucks/buses in petrol. So, diesel will continue to be around.

But, diesel vehicle should be far more expensive to buy, to rule out purchase of diesel for casual use (<3000km/month). Every tom dick harry is buying diesel now. That should change to only those who truly have long distance commutes buying them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post

Diesel pollution is different, very low on COx, High on solids. If Diesel is clean (which it is not) then these can comply. A swallow does not make summer, and VAG are getting their just punishment. Merc and others can meet these norms legally.

Pray why is Diesel kept below petrol while in many developed economies it is at par or even higher? Tax them the same and the balance will change very fast.

There are two possibilities here.

Diesel pollution is more harmful for health (NOx which converts to ozone, and also the SPM). I believe SPM can't be brought down in our cities by just banning diesel, because higher SPM is caused by the dust bowls that we call ROAD!!

So, ideally - Diesel should be as expensive as Petrol to rule out its casual use. But, this is inflationary and no govt. would want to lose votes!

So, they should do the next best thing - make owning disel vehicle very expensive, so that only inter-city transport vehicles will remain in diesel. Two things to be done.

1. Very high (perhaps 30%-40% of vehicle cost) yearly pollution-tax on Diesels all across country.

2. Limitation of life - i.e. Compulsary retirement of Diesel vehicles in 10 years in big cities, and 15 years in small cities.

Ofcourse - this doesn't take care of the overall greenhouse emission problems. For that we need to have a good program to generate clean energy (Nuclear/renewable) and move our city transport to electric.
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Old 12th December 2015, 21:32   #22
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

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Originally Posted by hkollar View Post

Every tom dick harry is buying diesel now..
Sadly during the UPA regime the diesel cars were let to go out of control. Till about 2005 there was little or no intrest in the diesel car for a common man. Then they de regulated the prices of petrol which led to a massive demand for diesel cars. De regulation of diesel was only done a year back. Now demand for diesel will be under control.

Had the demand for diesel cars been kept to a minimum, the currently proposed solution could be easily implemented. If I can take a guess, delhites care more about thier personal comfort than the general impact on health and these proposals will end in being poorly enforced.
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Old 13th December 2015, 13:47   #23
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Default Re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

Can someone clarify if this Ban is already in place?. The news channels/media are saying it is already in place. What happens to the folks who were waiting for the delivery of diesel cars, will the dealers be refunding the money?
Is the NGT powerful enough to pass a rule one morning without any notice?
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Old 13th December 2015, 16:54   #24
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Default Re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

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Originally Posted by knaveen View Post
Can someone clarify if this Ban is already in place?. The news channels/media are saying it is already in place. What happens to the folks who were waiting for the delivery of diesel cars, will the dealers be refunding the money?
Is the NGT powerful enough to pass a rule one morning without any notice?
To answer your question, yes the ban is already in place. According to the order, registration of diesel cars is banned UNTIL JAN. 6. That's when the National Green Tribunal will meet again and find out the action taken by Delhi and Central Govt.

This is what the order said:
Quote:
In view of the serious contribution of vehicular pollution to the air quality of NCT, Delhi it is important that the Government should take a serious view and a decision, whether any vehicle particularly Diesel Vehicle (old or new) should be registered in the NCT, Delhi. As an interim measure till next date of posting subject to hearing of all the concerned parties, we direct that Diesel Vehicles of more than 10 years of age as already directed, as well as new diesel vehicle would not be registered in NCT, Delhi.

We also direct the Government to take a conscientious decision in regard to not buying any diesel vehicle, whether by the Central or the State Government.
The Learned Counsel should take clear instructions in that regard.

Read full order here

Last edited by djpeesh : 13th December 2015 at 16:55.
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Old 13th December 2015, 18:17   #25
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Default Re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

Desperate times call for desperate measures. No place city or town should be in the state in which Delhi is.

Government and people should have pushed and preferred mass transportation like electric trains. We all dont need cars but we bought it just so we could show off to relatives or neighbours and now kids can't play outside, people can't walk on the roads, noise pollution is at an all time high and air pollution is killing us slowly. Seriously only our babus can use those gas guzzling SUV's, we can be much happier in a well planned timely mass transportation system.

Let us do our part in making this work, we need to make cities a place for our kids to grow up and enjoy. They should be able to play on the ground, on the streets breaking down neighbours windows with their chakkas (sixers), or jump from house to house playing hide and seek. We need more trees and not more buildings.
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Old 13th December 2015, 18:19   #26
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Default Re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

I like the way the holier than thou government issues these "fatwas"...

When the worst culprits are the Smoke belching lorries, buses, phat-phats and share autos and dirty little taxicabs.

Private cars largely are better maintained and are not by far, the worst offenders.
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Old 13th December 2015, 19:23   #27
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Default Re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

We as a country have become intolerant. Ban anything you dont like! be it movies, books and now Diesel vehicles in Delhi.

The immediate reason is Delhi High court rebuking the Delhi government to act. However, it also may be a way of rewarding the Auto Rikshaw and Taxi lobbies for supporting the AAP in the elections.

Last edited by rajneeesh : 13th December 2015 at 19:25.
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Old 13th December 2015, 20:36   #28
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Default Re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

I don't think this ban will achieve anything at all. People will buy the car and get it registered in Faridabad, Gurgaon, noida or anywhere else. The tax structure may be different but then we find loopholes easily with every new law.
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Old 14th December 2015, 10:46   #29
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Default Re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

What an example of ineffective decision on curbing the emissions. A fix at the source of the problem only will be effective. As many BHPians already pointed out, the emission from Diesel has been aggravated by far too many ways. IMHO, the Govt. should focus on going toward cleaner Diesel by speeding up implementation of BS IV, V & VI. From 2010, it's nothing but delay, delay and more delay which only caused the refinery budget to swell for nationwide implementation of BS IV fuel from 50K Crore in 2012 to 80K Crore INR in 2015. source:http://articles.economictimes.indiat...icy-grade-fuel

Streamlining and controlling fuel quality will help solving lots of problems IMHO. Also, tightening the type approval process will curb emissions from new vehicles, including Commercial Vehicles of all classes.

For sure, it's a pity that we are still in BS III while the world is going toward Euro 6 & equivalent norms. Also lots of groundwork is in progress to implement "Real World Driving Emissions" which will be replacing the static tests on Dynos for emission approvals in EU & NA regions.
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Old 15th December 2015, 17:12   #30
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Default Re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

Et Voila!

http://www.ndtv.com/delhi-news/will-...-lateststories

Quote:
...rich people can't go around in SUV's polluting the environment and agreed to ban registration of diesel SUVs and cars over 2000cc. The final order will passed tomorrow.


Am I crazy or does this seem like the stupidest thing ever?
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