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Old 10th December 2015, 17:59   #1
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Question Delhi: Diesel car ban?

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The Supreme Court on Thursday agreed to examine the plea for banning diesel cars plying on Delhi's road to tackle growing menace of pollution in the national capital
Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/h...w/50120239.cms

After odd and even rule this. I expect the Manufactures' cartel will stand against this rule.

So if the rule got passed then the only options we have is Petrol and CNG and of course plug-in electrical cars. So what about that long outstation trips?

Guys what do you think about a complete ban of Diesel cars in Delhi?

Cheers!

Vinu
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Old 10th December 2015, 18:33   #2
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Default re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

Speechless!

Although I own 2 petrol cars and no diesels, I find this plain stupid. As always, take the easy way out and target the middle class guy. Enough studies have been conducted to affirm that these ill maintained, harbingers of death - overloaded trucks are the primary source of pollution in the city

Who is going to check these trucks, when they are filling up the corrupt coffers of the "public servant" collective? What is happening to KMP that was supposed to take these goons outside of the city? Ridiculous!!

Its almost like a doctor telling a patient - "Your cancer can wait. We must prioritize treating your cold"
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Old 10th December 2015, 18:54   #3
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Default re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

The car makers are allowed to manufacture and sell diesel cars. Similarly the people are allowed to buy diesel cars. This is a right granted to them by the law of the land. Nothing illegal in that.

The vehicles cause pollution in the city. It adversely affects the people of the city. Hence they insist that the Government do something to curb the pollution. Government is busy in formulating a policy. Meanwhile somebody files a plea asking the apex Court to ban diesel vehicles in the city. Once again, the right to demand a cleaner surrounding is granted to the people. And nothing wrong in filing a litigation for that.

The Court will try to understand the demand and then attempt to strike a balance between two sides. What will happen if diesel cars are banned. No sales - no manufacturing - job loss. What will happen if diesel cars are allowed to keep running. Pollution - ailments - sickness. At last the Court will excuse itself stating that it cannot make policy decisions and direct the Government to do something.

And the Government is busy thinking. If we ban sale, no production and no tax. Why be proactive? That's another explanation of being 'revenue neutral' .

Last edited by Swapnil4585 : 10th December 2015 at 18:57.
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Old 10th December 2015, 19:36   #4
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Default re: Delhi: Diesel car ban?

All these moves about banning, rationing car usage etc. indicate the plain lack of pro-activeness.
First, allow the city to get full to multiple times the capacity they can actually take. Then start implementing bans and rationing ideas.
And, if we consider, such things are always on the end users, not at the starting points.
Just consider cigarettes and liquor, the manufacturers are free to sell them just with "Smoking kills" stickers. The Government & NGOs then spend crores to advertise the public that these are bad. So, nobody bothers.
Their final conclusion on diesel car also would be something similar - Put a sticker above the number plate - "Polluting vehicle. Stay 10 foot away" and then drive on.
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Old 11th December 2015, 20:19   #5
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Default NGT and Diesel Cars ban

Hi,

Just wanted to know the effect of this on car sales in other places like Bangalore. If the sales of diesel cars is completely banned in Delhi which happens to be one of the major buyer of cars, will it cascade to other metros too?

On a different note, will diesel cars finally lose their premium tag and sell at equal or less price as of petrol cars.

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Old 11th December 2015, 22:49   #6
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

First of all I hope the NGT is technically competent to judge the relative merits of various fuels in automotive applications, or are they relying on activists like Sunita Narain? I suspect the latter. I think they need a balanced panel advising them and not a couple of activists.

The Delhi problem has not come in a day, nor can it be solved in a week! Maximum pollution occurs when vehicles are static or crawling. so Why not try and fix it. Twice a day you will find a few hundred vehicles incl a lot of trucks crawling on NH8.

What about the US law demanding that both petrol and Diesel vehicles conform to the same norms. One other low hanging fruit is fuel adulteration. Just see the number of threads here reliable petrol pumps in xxx.

Last edited by sgiitk : 11th December 2015 at 22:51.
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Old 11th December 2015, 23:46   #7
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

Delhi now, other cities later...Mahindra will be out of business soon, Innova well be history, Duster will be dusted and Scross shall be crossed. The losses to automotive industry will be tremendous. This won't happen, some middle path will be worked out.

Thank God, they did not ban diesel Saale from today.

Last edited by sourabhzen : 11th December 2015 at 23:48.
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Old 12th December 2015, 00:00   #8
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
The Delhi problem has not come in a day, nor can it be solved in a week! Maximum pollution occurs when vehicles are static or crawling. so Why not try and fix it. Twice a day you will find a few hundred vehicles incl a lot of trucks crawling on NH8.
The problem in all the crowded cities in India is that all of the problems are mutually exclusive. There is a rise in vehicles hence the pollution increases & vice versa. Due to rise in vehicles there are jams & gridlocks which result in further burning of fuel & an even more increase in pollution. Its a really hard situation which has come to be today and that requires some hard decisions to be made.

I also understand that anything that is against the natural order of things (as far as democracy goes) is also wrong. It is wrong to say that odd numbered registration vehicles should be driven on one particular day while even numbered registration vehicles get their turn the next day. It is also wrong to decide for the consumer what he/she should not buy as far as the fuel type of the car goes. The way I see it the government is now playing chess with 48 pieces on the board, hence way lesser room to make strategies and much more chances for check-mate. The public on the other hand bump elbows in traffic and breathe in the poisonous gases whilst waiting for a jam to clear which it never will and also simultaneously refusing to cut down on vehicular usage themselves which democratically, they are allowed to do. Oh boy.
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Old 12th December 2015, 00:19   #9
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

I don't think banning one kind of cars of even/odd car and bikes will help a lot.
It would in turn leave people scurrying to find alternate cars/Cabs for transport, and this will only lead to more taxis, and even more people migrating into Delhi. So, are you saying, now will make all taxis run on CNG?
Where will this end? One problem leading into another.

Bus lanes and prioritizing public transport vehicles (Buses alone and not cabs) will probably make public transport faster than self driven cars/bikes and eventually people will not avoid making that extra little effort to walk upto the bus station.

But that would also mean, well planned bus bays, sheltered bus terminals (Even ACed), Improved parking facilities, more buses, automated ticketing all should trickle down soon. This needs a longer term solution than just killing the messenger
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Old 12th December 2015, 03:16   #10
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
First of all I hope the NGT is technically competent to judge the relative merits of various fuels in automotive applications, or are they relying on activists like Sunita Narain? I suspect the latter. I think they need a balanced panel advising them and not a couple of activists.
This is so true. These noisy pseudo-environmentalists often work for vested interests and do more damage to the environment, among other things.
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Old 12th December 2015, 07:01   #11
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

Has anyone thought of mandatory car pooling? Has government thought of forcing all businesses to implement staggered work timings and incentives for working from home? Did they instruct toll booths to charge double from all single occupied cars? There are so many simple solutions to implement if one is serious...
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Old 12th December 2015, 07:28   #12
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post

What about the US law demanding that both petrol and Diesel vehicles conform to the same norms. One other low hanging fruit is fuel adulteration. Just see the number of threads here reliable petrol pumps in xxx.
And we all know what companies like VW did to work around the strict pollution norms for diesel cars in US. It is a fact that Diesel vehicles emit more pollutants (even carcinogenic) than petrol cars. It will be insanely expensive for the automotive industries to match petrol and diesel emission norms. So they look for shortcuts like VW did.
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Old 12th December 2015, 09:13   #13
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Default

Back in the 90s, delhi did the impossible with a cng push. Air actually improved significantly even though that initiative really had its detractors.

This is a question of the air we breathe. Unless the corporate lobbies have their way, steps like these (even if not the most effective) will add up to clean the air.
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Old 12th December 2015, 09:16   #14
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

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Originally Posted by vinya_jag View Post
So, are you saying, now will make all taxis run on CNG?
Where will this end? One problem leading into another.
The taxis in Delhi are supposed to run on CNG only. By the way, diesel cars are not the messengers, the are the enemies here.
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Old 12th December 2015, 09:32   #15
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Default Re: NGT and Diesel Cars ban

The decision making it mandatory for all Cabs and Buses to run on CNG was a correct decison. But instead of moving ahead, the govt chose to ignore the problem. DTC today has fewer than 5000 Buses, the Tourist Taxis which have National Permits are allowed to ply in the city with impunity ( this started with the BPO cabs running on contract) and the majority of the App based taxis including Uber and Ola run on these permits.

Moreover, due to piecemenal approach to adoption of Euro 4 norms, almost 99% trucks and buses sold today are Euro 3 ( 350 PPM sulphur) and not Euro 4 compliant. The whole country will be moving to Euro 4 only by April 2017. Since Euro 3 vehicles are cheaper and can still being registered in large parts of the country, truckers buy them in such places and ply them all over the country.

By now we should have been moving to Euro 5, but govt apathy and poor financial condition of the oil marketing companies ensured that the refineries have not been upgraded ( due to high capex required) to produce fuel that meets the norms.

Corporates will like all pressure/interest groups ( including the environmentalists) will try to influence govt policy. It is for the government to listen to all views, involve experts and arrive at a logical policy which can be implemented in a time bound manner and end enforced effectively.

Last edited by rajneeesh : 12th December 2015 at 09:35.
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