Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Street Experiences


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st January 2016, 22:34   #16
BHPian
 
WorkingGuru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 188
Thanked: 225 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

IMHO too many software engineers in Bangalore have gotten cars just too easily. They drive alone in a hatch from home to the doorstep of their work. Still, even that'll become manageable if they drive upto a certain distance & connect the last mile on a bicycle.

Majority of them are young & can easily substitute their gymming with bicycling. They'll live a healthier life in the long term too.

Substantially increasing the number of normal BMTC buses will further ease the burden on our roads. I'd consider the BMTCs' contribution to this as most substantial. They have to invest in increasing the fleet by 1.5 times. It's visible how the lower middle class travel like cattle (IMHO), stuffed into these buses. Increasing numbers will only help.

Vacuuming of Bangalore's roads will be helpful. Ever thought of tweeting & mailing about this to the BBMP Administrator ? Let's start by initiating an online petition about this demand.

Lastly, vote wisely. Unfortunately we don't seem to have a govt as dedicated as Delhi. Demand for stuff & contribute beyond rants to the govt. Until then, bear with the voted government & their policies whether you like them or not.

I honestly see this not just as a traffic problem, but also a problem with the affluent who're increasingly becoming indifferent to the troubles of people except for the ones in their 'class'. And they feel that anyone poorer somehow deserve to suffer & travel stuffed into those jam packed buses or the undulated, potholed roads with slippery gravel on the overtly basic 2-wheel jugaad called bikes through the (now)starkly contrasting seasons with blistering sun at noon & chilling wind at nights. Let's have some empathy.

These are my 2. No offense.

Last edited by WorkingGuru : 1st January 2016 at 22:38.
WorkingGuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2016, 00:41   #17
BHPian
 
deep_bang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore / Boise
Posts: 568
Thanked: 253 Times
Default

Well. I agree to all the posts here - but that is no solution to the problem isn't it?

I think public transport is the best and proven way to reduce vehicular congestion. I think it would be great if bmtc introduces cycle racks so people can cycle to the nearest bus stop and hop on to bmtc bus and cycle to their last destination. Very simple and works like a charm. Have seen this in other countries and I feel it can work great in a place like Bangalore.
deep_bang is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2016, 05:52   #18
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Hosur
Posts: 380
Thanked: 287 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

I commute to my work in my hatchback. There are reasons for it: 1) No proper public transport & last mile connectivity 2) Bad Roads and the dust 3) Safety - reading reports of men being attacked in broad daylight. Once Karnataka government clears the above issues, I am ready to come to my work in 2 wheeler or public transport. Without improving infrastructure, government can't expect us to abide the rule.
sairamboko is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2016, 07:19   #19
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,311
Thanked: 3,655 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

I am a little surprised that Delhi-ites took the rule so quietly. With low resistance there, the rule will easily flow to other locations.

On another note, the Metro rail would actually help reduce the congestion

Last edited by condor : 2nd January 2016 at 07:20.
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2016, 07:25   #20
BHPian
 
GrammarNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 999
Thanked: 1,558 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

I think if children can go to school in bicycles, we're not going to perish to ashes if we did the same.

Most of Bangalore traffic comprises of young citizens. Let's make traveling by bicycle & carpooling into an more socially acceptable way of commute.

An appeal to the govt to invest in additional BMTC buses is necessary, along with vacuuming of roads (atleast near Schools, Hospitals, CBD & metro stations).

IMHO Allowing govt to levy congestion charges will only make them greedy & hurt lower middle class families who travel full capacity anyway. The IT corridor can afford exclusive buses for last mile connectivity directly to different companies.

Car rental norms should be eased to discourage purchase of cars for occasional use & should be made available only to responsible people thru yearly membership schemes. Edit : People buy SUV's/MUV's for occasional use, but end up dropping kids in the same car & then travelling alone to work etc. This needs to be changed.

Either we do something ourselves & sort this out, or our govt will implement some absurd rule like they did with registration of outstation vehicles.

What's that saying..? Better to prepare & prevent, than repent & repair. Let's see.

Edit 2 :
Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
...
On another note, the Metro rail would actually help reduce the congestion
I really believe Bangalore Metro too will go in full capacity after the operations till Mysore Road starts. Whatever little difference it may make, but the benefits will be useful to many people, who'd otherwise use cars instead.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 2nd January 2016 at 07:35.
GrammarNazi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2016, 12:22   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
vikram_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,380
Thanked: 936 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

I wonder if EV's will be exempted from this rule?
vikram_d is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2016, 14:36   #22
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chennai
Posts: 60
Thanked: 44 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
I wonder if EV's will be exempted from this rule?
Definitely. I am sure Govt officials are way more intelligent than we give them credit for!
rselva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 12:04   #23
BHPian
 
MSAneesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 88
Thanked: 56 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

I believe that instead of trying to do too many things and nothing bearing fruit, there should be a single, coordinated solution.
-Make metro the primary mechanism of transport. Tie the other modes to enable people get on to metro - bicycle lanes on metro feeder roads, ample parking at metro stations(especially source stations), feeder bus services, pre-paid auto/taxi at metro stations.
-Expand the metro network at a fast pace. Don't stop at current city limits. Extend to 15 KMs out on each radial road. People will move to quieter outskirts than jostle for a place in the city. (Here is where the greed of politicians and land mafia plays out. If they do a rapid expansion, they end up killing the golden goose. Instead, they prefer to do it a few KMs at a go, making big money with each expansion). Good that at least for phase 3 master plan, they have considered some extensions from the earlier laid out plan. But this is still inadequate.
-Get the dust off the key roads. In my opinion, this is the single largest deterrent for people to use bicycle or two wheelers
-Promote EVs, especially two wheelers. Have EV charging stations at all office parking lots.
MSAneesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 12:35   #24
BHPian
 
sumathindra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 602
Thanked: 190 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post
I honestly see this not just as a traffic problem, but also a problem with the affluent who're increasingly becoming indifferent to the troubles of people except for the ones in their 'class'
I couldn't agree more! Bangalore was never like this till a decade ago. The influx of jobs leading to people making Bangalore their home with the luxuries of owing more vehicles have contributed to this situation. Being sensitive and caring for the lesser souls would certainly contribute in a long way. This indifference is clearly seen daily, whether it is in daily commute or during evening walks. People want to have door to door delivery and not ready to park their cars and walk the last mile. Since a week now I have been seeing in Jayanagar 4th block, people shamelessly parking cars in clearly designated "no parking areas" identified as "model roads". Shortly we will see the situation Delhi is seeing now. It is better if the authorities wake up and take corrective measures before it is too late.

Last edited by sumathindra : 4th January 2016 at 12:43. Reason: edits
sumathindra is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 12:48   #25
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: TVM, BLR, HYD
Posts: 580
Thanked: 746 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

Automobiles have always fascinated human beings. The ones who can afford would buy the best vehicles, while the ones who cannot would prefer buying a smaller/budget car. For some automobile is a mode of transport, privacy; for some automobile is love. For a few others, its a status symbol.

While increasing affluence is a good sign of a growing economy, we cannot stop people from buying a car or house. There were many articles written about bad real estate situation, bad traffic etc. But have people stopped buying real estate and cars ? No.

When i was discussing this topic over a coffee, the general response from colleagues is that, listen, we earn and we pay tax too. The tax is expected to be used for developing/expanding roads, invest in public transport etc. Everyone complains that they pay tax on various counts, income tax, road tax, VAT, service tax and what not. Its a never ending argument, but looking at it, we cannot blame affluence as the root cause of the traffic problems. Tax payers money is misused resulting in this situation. Bangalore is just another victim. i repeatedly raise this question, on what basis did the town planners allow development of tech parks etc, very close to each other without any consideration of the impact on environment, traffic situation, security etc. ? And when things go bad with traffic, the usual refrain is influx of more people, more cars are choking the roads etc.

I believe all these odd/even rules are an eye wash to divert attention from the root cause of the problems. Once things get a little better with these band aid solutions, then there will be a section of those who would claim that such a model worked and that traffic situation is better. I am worried that there is no long term data driven, technical solutions to these problems !
sunishsamuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 14:13   #26
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 165
Thanked: 160 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunishsamuel View Post

While increasing affluence is a good sign of a growing economy, we cannot stop people from buying a car or house.
Here is where we go wrong. Transportation & housing are basic needs. Five star accomodation (gated community) or Cars are not basic needs.

Govt. should strive to provide the basic needs. Good public transport and ensure basic housing availability by planned expansions of city, so cost of basic housing doesn't overshoot.

But, govt. also has an obligation to ensure clean city, clean air, clean water etc. Thus, everyone driving a car is not in the interest of the overall nation. US developed a wrong model, that most US thinkers themselves condemn. We can't ape USA.

Consider what has happened to automobiles. An Indica that cost about 4Lakh rupees in 2000, costs only about 5.5Lakh today. A wagon-R that cost nearly 4Lakh, costs about 5+ Lakhs today.

In these 15 years, salaries have almost tripled. Road building costs have quadrupled!!

If you took wage inflation as a measure, A wagon-R should cost about 15lakhs today, a Swift about 20Lakhs.

If govt. can ensure a huge taxation on car ownership, private ownership would go down. Thus reducing pollution and congestion.

We need to make private cars a luxury items, just like Singapore and so many other high-dense cities have done.
hkollar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 14:40   #27
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: TVM, BLR, HYD
Posts: 580
Thanked: 746 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkollar View Post
Here is where we go wrong. Transportation & housing are basic needs. Five star accomodation (gated community) or Cars are not basic needs.

Govt. should strive to provide the basic needs. Good public transport and ensure basic housing availability by planned expansions of city, so cost of basic housing doesn't overshoot.

If govt. can ensure a huge taxation on car ownership, private ownership would go down. Thus reducing pollution and congestion.

We need to make private cars a luxury items, just like Singapore and so many other high-dense cities have done.
Depending on the salary/money bracket you are in, things/basic need remains the same but you prefer to go little higher up the chain for quality/better access etc. In addition, people prefer gated community/private cars because of the benefits it offers - like security, clean environment, privacy, shops etc.

If government can provide equal facilities to all strata of the society, then the concept of gated community, private cars won't be popular. I am not encouraging pollution, but i am only arguing against the general attitude of not solving the root cause (read as better commute facilities, strict implementation of pollution control on vehicles (commercial, private all included) encouraging petrol driven vehicles that are better compliant to latest clean exhaust norms, etc) and targeting only the private cars. Is there any data that can tell how the last few years of tax money was spent and on what, especially on infrastructure ?

Plus government should have a policy to ease the stress on urban centers. For eg: if 5 tech parks are at Bangalore Outer ring road, then the next 5 should be at least x km away with access to facilities etc. The situation gets worsened when all traffic gets concentrated on part of the city vs getting equally spread.

I like the US, Australia models. Getting to drive in the city is expensive and impractical but you got amazing public transport and cab facilities, along with great walk ways. Those who want to enjoy cars can drive in the suburbs. Why such a model cannot be implemented in India ? That model would also encourage overall development, cleaner surroundings and air isnt it ?

I also bumped across this article which gives some details of the causes of pollution and the measures involved. Link

Last edited by sunishsamuel : 4th January 2016 at 14:43. Reason: complete messages
sunishsamuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 15:13   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madras,Modena
Posts: 1,030
Thanked: 649 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

If the Delhi odd-even formula is going to be applied in Bangalore with the same exceptions. Its not going to work. Cos unlike Delhi, lots of Bangaloreans do have bikes. So if you are not allowing odd cars, taking the bike out becomes the easiest alternative. It will be a similar story if implemented in Madras as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
I think if children can go to school in bicycles, we're not going to perish to ashes if we did the same.
With kids, there is a better alternative. It is school bus. This is a better solution atleast for primary school students. Am not willing to send my kids on a cycle unless they are able to defend themselves in our traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
Like many other developed countries, there is no separate lanes for bicycling in Bangalore (or any Indian metro for that matter).
I live in a so-called developed nation, and no cycle lanes are a little hard to find. Even in places where there are, there are hardly enough takers for it. When I was cycling about 15 km a day, 2 times a week last year between Feb and June, I was the one in about 10 people I'd see the entire trip. This is inspite of the fact that 5 out of the 7 km route I took had a separate cycle/walking lane. On the contrary Amsterdam and Copenhagen that are much more colder have a more active cycling community.

So having a cycle lane isn't going to magically make everyone to commute in cycles!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSAneesh View Post
I would love to opt bicycle to ride to work (12 KMs one side, I think I still can manage), if not for the danger of riding it on Bangalore roads.
Do you have safe bicycle parking at home and office? If yes, you should do it. You will find bylanes to workaround traffic spots, though it may not be for all.
narayans80 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 15:24   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
sdp1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,567
Thanked: 875 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

If this happens in Bangalore, the list of exempted politicians will be a lot more.

To start with, the present Karnataka CM has gone on record saying that people have to bear the brunt of his traffic convoy - there's no way he'll go the Delhi CM way and carpool. Add to that his ministers , MLAs, etc, the list of political exemptions will be a lot more than Delhi.


Last edited by sdp1975 : 4th January 2016 at 15:26.
sdp1975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2016, 14:15   #30
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 165
Thanked: 160 Times
Default Re: After Delhi, Bangalore to adopt odd-even system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunishsamuel View Post
Depending on the salary/money bracket you are in, things/basic need remains the same but you prefer to go little higher up the chain for quality/better access etc. In addition, people prefer gated community/private cars because of the benefits it offers - like security, clean environment, privacy, shops etc.
If government can provide equal facilities to all strata of the society, then the concept of gated community, private cars won't be popular.
Gated communities are not popular. They are a niche used by a few. Very few use them. Same with five star hotels. They are objects of desire for many, but certainly not 'popular'.

My suggestion is for govt. to make private car ownership a rich-man's privilege. This sounds elitist, but if we see our population, and the density of our cities, it is unwise to follow US model of one-ass one-car.

If someone wants to pollute/congest, they should also pay heavily for it. Like 3-4 times of what they pay now. This is how it is in Singapore. High density city, but very nicely managed, because cars are unaffordable by most.


Quote:
I am not encouraging pollution, but i am only arguing against the general attitude of not solving the root cause (read as better commute facilities, strict implementation of pollution control on vehicles (commercial, private all included) encouraging petrol driven vehicles that are better compliant to latest clean exhaust norms, etc) and targeting only the private cars. Is there any data that can tell how the last few years of tax money was spent and on what, especially on infrastructure ?

Any idea that promotes private car ownership, promotes pollution. Electric cars at present are polluting, because majority of our power comes from Coal burning. But, in decades we will have cleaner energy, and thus perhaps we can exempt Electric Vehicle from pollution framework.

But, EVs will still congest the cities. Anyone who drives, needs a place to park his vehicle. Which is what causes crazy parking in city centers, making it unmanageable for authorities. In fact, even residential localities are clogged due to people buying cars, that they can't even afford to park!!

Imagine if private car ownership becomes expensive, then only folks who can afford parking will buy. Number of vehicles on road will reduce, thus public transport (taxi/bus) can move fast. In the process - This will provide better transport for all.

Quote:
Plus government should have a policy to ease the stress on urban centers. For eg: if 5 tech parks are at Bangalore Outer ring road, then the next 5 should be at least x km away with access to facilities etc. The situation gets worsened when all traffic gets concentrated on part of the city vs getting equally spread.
On contrary, other models have worked better. We should have clusters where millions work. We should provide excellent public-connectivity to those areas, thus people can easily commute. All facilities become easier when cities are dense, instead of sparse - spreadout (which is what causes the traffic snarl.

We are doing it wrong. We need to go vertical, make cities smaller, but easier to commute.

Quote:
I like the US, Australia models.

US/Australia models??!!!

These countries are vast, and they have oversupply of land. Thus, extremely wide roads, long commute are common. But, that model is highly polluting.

Per capita Emission (tons/year):
USA - 17.2
Australia: 18.3
UK - 11
China - 7
India - 2


China has already reached a very high emission level. Considering it is most populous, it is becoming the biggest polluter as well.

India should not go that path. We will doom ourselves.

In fact, even USA/Australia are being forced to change. Many states in USA are tightening mileage norms to such an extent that manufacturers will have no choice but to go electric-hybrid. And in a few decades, fossil fuel will be completely banned.

This is our future too - SELF DRIVING ELECTRIC TAXIS, that will arrive at your door step, and drop you to nearby public transport, or to your office. You don't need to park/own or drive. You just pay for transport.
hkollar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Delhi: Odd & Even numbered cars to drive on alternate days *Edit: Round 2 from April 15th* Rajeevraj Street Experiences 643 6th November 2016 14:02
Why dont car manufacturers adopt standard naming conventions for variants anujmishra The Indian Car Scene 30 11th February 2014 10:51
Dump the Electric compressor and adopt the foot pump? A comparison tsk1979 Modifications & Accessories 26 6th July 2010 12:51
Should Metro Traffic Be Made Odd & Even? 007 Bond The Indian Car Scene 61 23rd August 2008 10:30
Need to adopt a VW Beetle or an Austin Minor Reilly Post-War 25 25th February 2008 19:15


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 23:44.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks