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Old 16th January 2016, 12:20   #31
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

Glad to hear that the boy is safe. And my sympathy to you p_philip. The tragedy in our country is that; people who drink and drive recklessly seems to get way with it and those who follow the rules get themselves in trouble; even though its not their fault. Fortunately, the parents of the boy in your case seems to be sensible people. Otherwise, it could have been worse. I recall an incident involving my uncle a few years ago. My uncle never drives past 40 kmph even on highway. Still, one unfortunate day, a young man on his bicycle came from nowhere, hit my uncle's car and fell. The young man didn't suffer any serious injuries but his cycle was completely ran over. A few people from across the street gathered and started arguing with my uncle. Although my uncle was ready to register a FIR and pay the young man for his treatment and for the bicycle, the young man didn't agree. After half an hour of heated arguments my uncle took the man to nearest ATM and paid him about Rs.7,000 in cash. My uncle thought the matter has ended although at an unfair cost. But, after a few days the man came to his office and demanded that my uncle should give him a job or at-least should give him a recommendation letter...!!. This is the height of extortion. I even suspect that the man intentionally came and hit my uncle's car. There are many such people who have made this kind of extortion a business.
If you are a middle aged person or woman driving alone in an expensive car you need to be very careful about these thugs. Best solution is not to get involved in any arguments after the accident. Just call the police (and a good lawyer). Take the victim to nearest hospital. Be present there until the police shows up. Let the police register a FIR in front of you (and, if possible, your lawyer)and then you sit and decide whether to settle the matter in court or outside.
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Old 16th January 2016, 16:09   #32
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

My advice to you p_phiilip, being a lawyer, will be that you shouldn't plead guilty. Howsoever small it may be, it will stick with you throughout your life as a conviction by a court in India. And that may lead to some complications at some point of time later (I am not saying it will, but it may). You should hire a good lawyer to defend your case and stick to your original statement that the child was negligent and you were driving at 55-60 kmph (that's the legal driving speed limit in urban and semi-urban areas in India). You can take help of the VW persons who you say helped you as they are the eyewitnesses of the incident. The father, not being present there, his statement isn't of much value in the court. The child's testimony can be countered by your lawyer, in case he tries to tell the false tale as guided by his father. Stick to your original statement and ask your lawyer to move an application for doing away with your presence in the court on every date of hearing as you are a permanent resident of Goa. Don't worry, it may take some time, but will go in your favour. The Insurance Company will take care to indemnify any financial burden caused due to the accident of the child, both to your vehicle and the child's family. And a small piece of advice for you and anyone else who reads it, "Always make sure that whenever you meet with such an inicdent, immediately or ASAP rush to the nearest Police Station and lodge a report of the incident. It will help you a lot!"
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Old 16th January 2016, 17:03   #33
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

Thunderlover is exactly right. Fight it till it gets erased off your record. The law is supposed to identify the guilty and both sides don't have enough evidence in this case so why should you suffer for someone else's stupidity (kid) and greed (father)? Do not just take the 'easy' way out, since you are the only loser in this case, not the lawyers, not the parents, and not the kid who survived.
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Old 16th January 2016, 22:48   #34
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

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I look forward to legal and helpful advice from the experts here. Let me know how best I should approach this.
Hope you found a good lawyer. I hit a jaywalker who died on the spot. This was in 2002. I wasn't drunk either and it was very early in the morning, at about 4.45 am. There were people around who came running, so I veered away frm the scene of the accident, and surrendered to the nearest police station.

Good lawyer in Maddur, and he proved that on a highway it was not my fault. The case got over in 7 months. Just get a good lawyer and it will get sorted. Talk to the police and cooperate with them. They will find you someone.
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Old 16th January 2016, 23:43   #35
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

Sorry to know about the unfortunate incident Philip. Its good to know that the 12 year old child is OK.
About the case, as already suggested never admit your guilt. Its a clear case of the child negligently coming into the moving traffic and getting himself injured. There could be some fault of yours but that's for the courts to decide.
The Indian Penal Code though questions "what you were doing when the other traffic user was negligent?" It simply means that if someone moves from the wrong (right) side on a road we cannot knock him down.We as traffic users need to be vigilant and defensive - thats what the law expects from us.
Back to the case, the court will surely fix the responsibility and award damages to the child that your insurance company is bound to pay.The insurance company lawyer is also generally made to appear by the insurer to defend. But NEVER admit your guilt. Record all the truth and as others have said the VW showroom men and other occupants of your car can act as witnesses. Please also state that the father of the child is misleading the court by stating that the child was awaiting a bus. He can be cross questioned by your lawyer as to which bus he was waiting for and where his tuition classes are? This needs to be authenticated with receipts and payments by his father to the tuition class . They cannot get away lying.
Secondly, you have raised a point regarding the court case and your being barred from your future prospects (employment background verification or passport or travel abroad) and the implications.
Let me clarify, this is though a criminal case, its an accident. These are treated differently from the other criminal cases of battery, assault, unlawful assembly, homicide, war against the state and so on.
The passport may not be affected, but if you need to travel abroad during the pendency of the case (usually many years at least five - don't know how efficient the court there is ?) please inform the Judge and seek his permission for travel abroad. He may ask for an affidavit or undertaking, saying that you will be present on the hearing dates.
Many of my office drivers (government) have such accident cases in various parts of the country. The government is required to pay for the damages these drivers do. Government vehicles are not insured. Even if they injure or kill someone,compensation awarded by the court is paid for. They are still in service. In some cases disciplinary action is taken against them if the office inquiry finds them guilty. I am just trying to draw the analogy that having seen many such cases, I rarely find any court restrictions on them for any activity. They have to attend court though.
The moot point is that you may be required to be present during the hearings in the court - not like civil cases where the lawyer's presence is OK. You can seek exemption from appearance with the Judge's permission or later produce a medical certificate if you are unwell.
So let things cool down and the case will drag on. Be patient and things will be OK lets hope.
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Old 17th January 2016, 15:30   #36
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

The accident was unfortunate, as all accidents are. My sympathies with all the stress you had on your holiday, Excellent advise by some of the BHPians here. My advice is that always speak the truth and when in doubt; speak the absolute truth. It has proved a good policy in the long run.
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Old 17th January 2016, 19:16   #37
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

@ S_PPhilip : Sad to hear about the incident and at the same time happy to know the boy survived.

Any accident situation is so scary and sends people on a frenzy - kudos to you for taking the boy to a hospital and caring for him ( yes this is what we must do, but there are quite a few who just dont stop and drive away).

I was witness to one such incident, many many years ago - at least 15 years ago - on the way back from Nagapattinam to Chennai via cuddalore, we were in a Wagon R doing 60-70 and my uncle was at the wheel, suddenly a boy sprints across, panic breaking, we heard the sound of our front bumper hitting something and we stopped. Immediately a crowd gathered, my uncle got out with bated breath and saw that fortunately the bumper ( the number plate to be exact) scraped the shoulder of the small boy ( around 10-12 years old) and he was breathing and conscious. His parents immediately hailed an auto and took him to the GH and we followed.

At the hospital the duty doctor examined and we were relieved to find out that there were no major injuries ( i mean no fracture/dislocation) , the boys shoulder bore some scratches , his uncle walks out and meets us - we, apologize and offer money for any treatment - he says the boy is OK by Gods Grace and we can leave. I still remember the incident fresh in my memory - in fact the boy's name and the exact location of the accident.

Honestly i don't see why you must plead guilty even though that may be the easiest thing to do to get things done and dusted. Get a good lawyer ( you already have i guess) and fight it out , if the VW service guys can help as witnesses it ll be great ( after all Skoda is part of VAG), Also were there any CCTV camera nearby or on the highway? ( just asking as have seen many speed cameras as well as static cameras on Kerala highways and signals)

Meanwhile : How is your Fabia? Is she still in Kozhikode? Hitting a pedestrian at 60-70 kmph is not a small incident and that the boy survived attributes something to the pedestrian safety aspect of Skoda's design?

Yes a dashcam is a very very useful piece of equipment to have, i think we need one for the rear ( not a rear parking camera ) but a rear dash cam too - in this case the rash bus driver has also contributed to this accident by incessantly harassing you.

Overall i wish and pray that you succeed in this litigation and safe mile munching in the future
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Old 18th January 2016, 03:20   #38
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

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Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
Meanwhile : How is your Fabia? ..... pedestrian safety aspect of Skoda's design?
....rash bus driver has also contributed to this accident by incessantly harassing you.
Thank you Observer, thank you one and all for amazing points here, gives me a wider perspective, though I read every post because I am referring to this information to source ideas, didn't get a chance to thank all as I had a busy weekend, my best friend is getting married in a few days, something positive to deflect this tension, didn't get home yet, so signed in through phone to express gratitude.

Regarding the Fab, it worries me, parts are not easily available, moreover this is an old 1.4 PD model (this may have been imported for all I know, there's good difference in the doors etc between later ones and mine).

This however is my favorite car, the closest to a German I've got, so the guilt of the accident is double/worse, have been wishing since then that I should have taken the Swift or City to KL at least would not have had to worry about parts scarcity (ironically neither feels as safe as how the Fab feels at ease through Brownian motion KL, safe for passengers, now safe for jaywalkers too).

I've driven to KL 6 times in 4 of our cars in the recent past, but only Fabia repeatedly, I love my Fab, and it hurts to see her bruised. I didn't want her hospitalised this new year.

Kozhikode Kannur stretch has always been a challenge, I thought I gained enough experience to drive through without breaking a sweat. Don't think I'd ever say that. It's those yam dooth buses.

On a separate note need help with a Lancer's alternator, can someone suggest a good place closer to Mavelikara, KL where I can repair the Lancer, as I mentioned earlier, the story had more twists and challenges in store, the accident was just one chapter, little did I know then there's many more.

So I request my good friend to help me with a rental car in light of this accident and he offers me his lovely Lancer in sports red, I pick it happily from his wonderful parents as my friend works in Bangalore, he's recently driven the car some 50 kms and it's in good shape but has been idle for most of last 2 years but no worries he says.

Despite the tension looming large I cheerfully pick it, but for the 1st time in my driving tenure a car leaves me stranded, to it's credit it drove me around for 800kms but breaks down in a remote location, my cousin is luckily nearby and in a few hours, late into the night bails me, somehow manage to take it to his house and he checks with a mechanic the next morning and identifies a weak alternator.

I am forced to abandon the car at his house and he has to drive me back to Kozhikode eventually, he returns to the gulf, now I've to get that car sorted and drop it at my friend's home in Ernakulam, he's been amazingly supportive and understanding but equally it's my responsibility too.

Last edited by s_pphilip : 18th January 2016 at 03:48.
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Old 18th January 2016, 10:56   #39
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

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Originally Posted by s_pphilip View Post

The father goes ahead and files a Police case. However, he alters his statement. It says the kid was standing at the bus stop after alighting and I ran off the road and hit him. The kid when we were taking him to the hospital said he didn't really look out for oncoming traffic (I don't know what made him run, sadly I will never know).
My sympathies and I doubt that I can offer any advice in this case. However, I can offer an explanation as to why they changed their statement and claimed that the kid was standing at the bus stop. I think the insurance won't pay up if they admit to jaywalking. Insurance is not valid if you are involved in illegal activity and jaywalking is illegal. Hence they will have to claim to be standing in order to get the insurance money.
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Old 19th January 2016, 14:22   #40
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice



This is a same situation a colleague of mine faced about 2 years back and it got solved in last 3 months. And me being a person who has just "awakened" to the laws of this nation, following are my few thoughts to support you.

1. Do not accept guilt. Do not budge. Make sure Police prepares the FIR at the earliest. This is critical. FIR means case has to go through the process of law. Do not attend all dates. Attend every 3rd or 4th date. Give Power of Attorney to your lawyer. Carry on with your life. Things will move on.

2. Ask if the opposite party wants to come for a mutual understanding closure of this case by withdrawing it quoting out of court settlement.

3. 90% of cases in India get closed outside the court. Honorable acquittal is rare and best only for people who have time and money to spare.

4. You lawyer has to prepare a case that is as plain as vanilla. Do not ask him to add thadka and extra masala. This will only add to more problem. Experienced lawyers are good in it and they will make sure all knots are untied easily.

5. Be nice to the opposite party. Show that smiling face always and do not show signs of tension or pain. Put a brave face. That boy is alive, not dead. The more uneasy you become, the more bold they will be. I know courts are a daunting and frightful place to be.

6. Tell the judge that you are ready for a amicable settlement and that all charges put against you is false and unsubstantiated. Just say, it was boy's fault and being a father myself, I am ready for a amicable settlement and go on with life.

7. If you paid hospital bills for that kid, make sure you produce them.

8. Do not allow your lawyer to do the negotiation talk. Be the first person and do not accept anything. No matter how emotional things get, just make sure you do not accept the blame. THIS IS CRITICAL.

9. Hire an experienced lawyer. They know how to push papers and get the court dates attended to.

Don't worry. Easy wriggling out of these situations means you are giving in for no fault of yours. And you are setting wrong example.

My gut feeling is you will reach out of court settlement soon.
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Old 19th January 2016, 15:40   #41
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

Philip - The fact that the child got away with a broken ankle is the most significnat part of the incident. Lets hope he makes a full recovery. The sad part is that his well wishers have probably coached him on the fabricated version of the incident. Another youngster being taught that its (a) alright to lie (b) blame someone else for your mistake
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Old 19th January 2016, 17:09   #42
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

A lot of people here are talking about dragging on with the case.
Just thinking out loud - Assuming that your papers are clear, what will happen if you:
1. Get the FIR filed
2. Accept that it's your mistake in the first Court Hearing

You will be fined (approx. 2000 Rupees) for rash driving. Add Lawyer fees (varies from 100 Rs to 1500 Rs depending on your bargaining power and 'pretending to know the rules' - I paid 100 Rs to the lawyer for a similar offense).
Then the boy's family has to file a case in the Motor Accident Claims Tribunal against your Insurance Provider. If you are called for this, accept (again) that it's your mistake. Your liability is over.

The boy's family will most probably NOT file the Claims Tribunal case because if the injury is not so serious, the maximum they would get is 2000 Rs from Insurance (after 5 years). This would not be enough even for their lawyer fees.

PS: Please make sure that you are very respectful (and apologetic) to the Judge - this would go a long way in reducing the fine. (I was fined 1500 Rs, but some people were fined only 1000 Rs.)

Last edited by Jaggu : 19th January 2016 at 17:53. Reason: Wrong edit.
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Old 19th January 2016, 17:41   #43
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_pphilip View Post

Now, what I want to understand is, is there no voice for my side of the story, or is this how this has to proceed.
If you want you can defend, but then the case will run for years together and you will have to appear in person as and when the court needs. Our system is fully biased against smaller party and where the injury has occurred, in this case the child. If you really want to fight, file a counter case from your side also.

Generally only a govt driver whose service record has an impact fights such cases, rest just let's it go.

Quote:
I don't mind going ahead and admitting guilt (though not my fault), but it should not affect any of my future prospects (employment background verification or passport or travel abroad), what are the implications.
None whatsoever when i checked last, you will be asked to pay fine for rash driving and that is it. No marks on your license also. Even when the case is running, there is no restriction on travel etc. Our legal system is still maturing and automation far from reality, so there is no way a back ground check pick up a self pleading in a road accident as red.

Quote:
I look forward to legal and helpful advice from the experts here. Let me know how best I should approach this.
In short, find a experienced lawyer in accident cases, sign the authority to him. Insurance company will cut the deal with the 3rd party involved and close the claim side. You have to pay the fine which would be 2-3 thousand plus lawyer fee. Ensure you collect all the relevant receipts at the end of all this for your records Cos that would be the only thing you or anyone will have to figure out history.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
The boy's family will most probably NOT file the Claims Tribunal case because if the injury is not so serious, the maximum they would get is 2000 Rs from Insurance (after 5 years). This would not be enough even for their lawyer fees.
Absolutely NO, they will 100% file for it and claim couple of lakhs sighting permanent disablement and what not, but don't worry that is the way it is. Most often what insurance would do is cut the deal outside and close it. Edit 2: The whole criminal case is filed just to ensure they get a better stance with the liability one.

An old man in his 70's with a broken teeth in an accident, got away with 1.5 lakhs, claim was for 5. So a young child also should manage decent money, this (claim) is the whole root cause to the misuse of the legal system.

Quote:
PS: Please make sure that you are very respectful (and apologetic) to the Judge - this would go a long way in reducing the fine. (I was fined 1500 Rs, but some people were fined only 1000 Rs.)
You might not even need to appear in person if you have a good lawyer, he will do that on behalf of you.

2 instances i know off are as follows:

1- crowded long court house, the accused standing about 25 mts away was advised by lawyer to yell out "i admit" when the lawyer ends conversation with the judge and raises his hands. Yes it was totally loud in there and no one could make out what was happening, so the accused did that and met the lawyer outside who told "now we have to goto counter to pay fine". End of story.

2nd instance- couple of plain vakalath was signed and given, after couple of months the receipt was couriered back by the lawyer. End of story.

None of this is from imagination and i am witness to all of the above!

Last edited by Jaggu : 19th January 2016 at 18:04.
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Old 20th January 2016, 11:01   #44
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

Sorry to hear on your unfortunate incident mate. I had a very similar incident at the end of last year in Chennai and I totally empathize on how you feel. What I learnt from that is, always click a picture of the site of accident, a single picture sometimes doesn't really help you. Don't trust the statement of the victim or their close ones at the time of the incident, they would be in a state of shock and hence will not be in a mood to skew the incident to their advantage. Always and ALWAYS report to the police then and there.

But like the other Bhpians have told, the input of the father doesn't count since he wasn't at the site of the accident. Just stick to what happened and everything should be fine. Just don't let this incident ruin your 2016
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Old 21st January 2016, 01:49   #45
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Default Re: Car accident involving pedestrian in Kozhikode, KL. Need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlil View Post
... Insurance is not valid if you are involved in illegal activity and jaywalking is illegal....
Is that so, strange that jaywalking is illegal in India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...but then the case will run for years together...
...None whatsoever when i checked last,
As long as there are no implications in the long run, I don't want to waste time and energy pursuing something unproductive, I have a lot of better things to do in life and focus energies on, miles to go to get there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderlover View Post
... it will stick with you throughout your life as a conviction by a court in India....
I do not want this scenario at all which is why I decided to post this on TBHP, I know I will get unbiased advice and reasoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxh View Post
Fight it till it gets erased off your record...
That's where the confusion for now lies, though it is too early but I'd like to understand and be prepared with a plan, if I analyse or assume an opinion poll, for either option, I received equal suggestions, and really relevant ones at that. Anyways I shall sit down with my advocate and go over all possibilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
Add Lawyer fees....
...the maximum they would get is 2000 Rs from Insurance (after 5 years)...
I thought they would get higher, some said as high as a Lakh or two.

Lawyer fees, (sigh), I asked during my initial discussion and he mentioned it could be close to 20k for the entire case, so I am not sure how to bargain till 1500.
I plan to visit KL soon as I need to fix my friends Lancer and drop it, so may be I shall then meet my lawyer too, these things are better discussed across the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbyanish View Post
....Just don't let this incident ruin your 2016
Started otherwise, should be temporary. I too hope and pray like wise that this shadow passes away and it turns positive and for good.
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