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Old 29th April 2016, 11:31   #1
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Default NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

The set-up for India’s own navigational system,was completed on Thursday with the launch of the seventh and final satellite.This was launched into a sub geosynchronous transfer orbit with a perigree (nearest point to earth) of 284 km and an apogee (farthest point to earth) of 20,657 km. The satellite was launched on board the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV), which took off from the Sriharikota launch pad at 12.50 p.m. With this launch, the IRNSS (Indian Regional Navigaiton Satellite System) constellation of seven satellites is now complete. The total cost of 7 satellites was INR 1420cr.


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This navigation system has been christened NAVIC(Navigation with Indian Constellation). Explaining the name NAVIC, Prime Minister Mr. Narendra Modi said the system was dedicated to India’s mariners and fishermen who have been navigating using the sun and stars as way-points for hundreds of years. “They have shown strength and determination in venturing out to sea for so many years. We have named this system for them, the ‘naviks’ (mariners),” he said. In addition he also went on to say: "“We are now one of five countries with our own navigational system. Today we are free of dependence on other countries for navigation. Our planes will be able to land with ease and accuracy, we can plan disaster relief better and with our own technology”.

An Indian-owned satellite navigation system is crucial to get positional accuracy during war or a war-like situation as the country may be denied such information by countries owing similar systems during such times. For example, the US denied GPS information during the Kargil war in 1999. This was what triggered the launch of an Indigenous Navigational system.

Although we commonly say the term 'GPS' for Navigation. GPS is the name given to the Navigation System owned by United States and comprises of 24 satellites which give worldwide coverage. Apart from the USA, only Russia, Europe and China have their own Navigation System called Glonass (24 Satellites), Galileo(27 Satellites) and BeiDou(35 Satellites) respectively. All parts of the country as well as an area of 1500km from from Indian Borders can be covered by the NAVIC System. Claimed accuracy is <20 meters.

Apart from the military use, the desi 'GPS' will aid terrestrial, aerial and marine navigation, vehicle tracking and fleet management, disaster management, mapping and geodetic data capture, visual and voice navigation for drivers. The service can also be integrated with mobile phones.

Can we expect NAVIC based/supporting devices soon? It may take some time. Currently most mobile phones and navigation devices are based on 'GPS' and many of the mobile phones also support GLONASS. Once the system is made operational (within 2-3 months), device makers and OEM's can incorporate support for NAVIC into their devices. ISRO has already developed a chipset that can be incorporated into devices. But it needs to be productionalized.

A proud moment for India.
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Old 29th April 2016, 17:04   #2
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
An Indian-owned satellite navigation system is crucial to get positional accuracy during war or a war-like situation as the country may be denied such information by countries owing similar systems during such times. For example, the US denied GPS information during the Kargil war in 1999. This was what triggered the launch of an Indigenous Navigational system.
What do you mean by denied? Like at the moment anyone using a phone/GPS device with the GPS transmitter can access the location details. So is there a way for the US to restrict the service on a specific geography?

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Apart from the USA, only Russia, Europe and China have their own Navigation System called Glonass (24 Satellites), Galileo(27 Satellites) and BeiDou(35 Satellites) respectively.
Some news reports claim that only GPS and Glonass are available worldwide while the other two are regional in nature. But looking at the satellite numbers, looks like they too are worldwide systems.

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
All parts of the country as well as an area of 1500km from from Indian Borders can be covered by the NAVIC System. Claimed accuracy is <20 meters.
I had a GPS device for trekkers. Even it had an accuracy of 15 to 20 mtrs. At least the screen used to show the accuracy as 20 mtrs. For military use shouldn't it be much more accurate than 20 mtrs.
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Old 29th April 2016, 17:31   #3
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

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What do you mean by denied? Like at the moment anyone using a phone/GPS device with the GPS transmitter can access the location details. So is there a way for the US to restrict the service on a specific geography?
Apparently yes, during the times of conflict, as per reports I read on this, the US wanted to be impartial and denied GPS services to both India and Pakistan. Also, such positional systems can provide separate services for civilian and military use. I assume the military use has far more controls in place.

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Some news reports claim that only GPS and Glonass are available worldwide while the other two are regional in nature. But looking at the satellite numbers, looks like they too are worldwide systems.
Correct. only GPS and Glonass are world wide. China's system is regional but they are expanding to worldwide use. Europe's is regional and I don't think is fully operational yet. The fact that India could achieve such god coverage with just 7 satellites is being called out as a major achievement.

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I had a GPS device for trekkers. Even it had an accuracy of 15 to 20 mtrs. At least the screen used to show the accuracy as 20 mtrs. For military use shouldn't it be much more accurate than 20 mtrs.
Yes, NAVIC provides 2 services. The first is called Standard Positioning Service (SPS) which is for civilian use. This will have an accuracy of 20m, while the second is called Restricted Services (RS), which is said to have an accuracy of <10m (Assume it will be even less)
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Old 29th April 2016, 17:43   #4
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

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What do you mean by denied?

For military use shouldn't it be much more accurate than 20 mtrs.
I remember reading this issue in some military journal few years back, I guess it was related to India's plan of having its own navigation satellites. Back then the idea was to join hands with Russia in their GLONASS system I guess.

Anyways, what the article mentioned was that during US had the capability to change the timing / clock of any satellites in their system. That means, if say satellite A along with B & C (since 3 satellite is minimum to get a location fix) is taking care of any region. They will change the timing in A, this will cause all receivers connected to it to show wrong location.

Since, GPS is used for smart ammunition and navigation of fighter aircraft a wrong coordinate will cause serious issues.


Regarding, the accuracy part I guess there are different stories about the same. I read an article yesterday which claimed the accuracy was in range of 10 meters. However, logically I guess there should not be much difference between a 10 meters and 20 meters accuracy system in case of ammunition. Well, the story of smart cruise missiles which are capable of going through window and hitting a target inside is always there in discussion of next generation warfare. Currently I guess it still a dream I guess.
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Old 29th April 2016, 17:50   #5
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

@Rajeevraj: Thank you for starting this thread, excellent summary about NAVIC.

Congratulations and Indeed its a pride moment for every Indian.

@shipnil

Yes, NAVSTAR aka GPS is US Constellation and they had two types of services namely SPS & PPS for Civilian and Military use respectively. This may be referred as Selective Availability & was discontinued in 2000.
1) Standard Positioning Service (SPS)
2) Precise Positioning Service (PPS)

More information at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System

and following is quote relevant to this topic
Quote:
  • By December 1993, GPS achieved initial operational capability (IOC), indicating a full constellation (24 satellites) was available and providing the Standard Positioning Service (SPS).[38]
  • Full Operational Capability (FOC) was declared by Air Force Space Command (AFSPC) in April 1995, signifying full availability of the military's secure Precise Positioning Service (PPS).[38]
  • In 1996, recognizing the importance of GPS to civilian users as well as military users, U.S. President Bill Clinton issued a policy directive[39] declaring GPS a dual-use system and establishing an Interagency GPS Executive Board to manage it as a national asset.
  • In 1998, United States Vice President Al Gore announced plans to upgrade GPS with two new civilian signals for enhanced user accuracy and reliability, particularly with respect to aviation safety and in 2000 the United States Congress authorized the effort, referring to it as GPS III.
  • On May 2, 2000 "Selective Availability" was discontinued as a result of the 1996 executive order, allowing users to receive a non-degraded signal globally.

.
So, basically USA had all the control to share the GPS service to whom they want.

Nevertheless, with NAVIC we have our own constellation extending upto 1500km of swath.

NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready-156339.jpg

More information about NAVIC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian...tellite_System
http://www.spaceflight101.net/irnss-1.html
http://www.isro.gov.in/irnss-programme

Way to go!!!

Last edited by GTO : 30th April 2016 at 15:25. Reason: uploading pic as attachment
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Old 29th April 2016, 17:54   #6
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

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Originally Posted by shipnil View Post
What do you mean by denied? Like at the moment anyone using a phone/GPS device with the GPS transmitter can access the location details. So is there a way for the US to restrict the service on a specific geography?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Apparently yes, during the times of conflict, as per reports I read on this, the US wanted to be impartial and denied GPS services to both India and Pakistan. Also, such positional systems can provide separate services for civilian and military use. I assume the military use has far more controls in place.
GPS has provision for civil and (US) military use, and the civil users (including other armies) were provided with degraded signals, thereby denying precise positioning. The resulting accuracy was in excess of 100m. The selective degrading was turned off in year 2000. More info here.

Of course all governments/armies like to have navigation systems that are under their control.

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
The fact that India could achieve such god coverage with just 7 satellites is being called out as a major achievement.
One advantage of Indian subcontinent is that it is close to equator, meaning the constellation can have geo stationary satellites, giving good elevation satellites that are visible most of the time. 3 out of 7 are geos and are placed at equator. US, Russia, China are all located in upper latitudes and span a lot of lateral earth, needing a lot of satellites to cover the region. Geo's will not help them because the elevation of those satellites will be really low and will have problems in urban environments.

Last edited by GTO : 30th April 2016 at 15:27. Reason: Typos
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Old 29th April 2016, 17:55   #7
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

I read somewhere that for using NAVIC, some hardware adaptation is required for current range of smartphones. Sorry no links to be found.

It would be interesting if there is a way where I can tell Google maps to use 'which GPS' from a list of options.
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Old 29th April 2016, 18:09   #8
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I read somewhere that for using NAVIC, some hardware adaptation is required for current range of smartphones. Sorry no links to be found.

It would be interesting if there is a way where I can tell Google maps to use 'which GPS' from a list of options.
Current chipsets in the phones cannot be modified. It is not hard for the chip manufacturers for adding support for Navic. The Spec document was published more than a year ago. Now most smartphones support GPS + GLONASS. And IIRC, it was because of a Russian mandate that requires navigation equipment sold in Russia to use GLONASS, that the companies incorporated in their chipsets. Just a matter of time (may be 1+ years down the line) before Qualcomm incorporates Navic support in their chipset.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 10:48   #9
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

Good move by the government. Although we have entered this domain a bit late, nevertheless we are proud of this achievement. While GPS boasts an accuracy of 20m, NAVIC claims <20m, is accuracy proportional to the number of satellites put into use ? When they use the word "indigenious" , is everything developed in India, right from the scratch?

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 2nd May 2016 at 22:46. Reason: Post edited for several spelling errors. Please spellcheck before posting!
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Old 2nd May 2016, 11:23   #10
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Explaining the name NAVIC, Prime Minister Mr. Narendra Modi said the system was dedicated to India’s mariners and fishermen who have been navigating using the sun and stars as way-points for hundreds of years.
I don't expect any Prime Minister to have a detailed knowledge of navigation but someone should have checked before he made the statement. Waypoints and Sun/Stars are totally different objects. Besides I don't think our fishermen fix their position by the sun and stars. Most of the boats don't carry a compass forget carrying a sextant, almanac and tables to do the calculations and a chart to fix the position on. This system has been developed primarily for military use. Commercial / Private use is just an additional feature. In any case private / commercial users anyway use GPS so I doubt companies are going to develop phones with Navic receivers.

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What do you mean by denied? Like at the moment anyone using a phone/GPS device with the GPS transmitter can access the location details. So is there a way for the US to restrict the service on a specific geography?
Your device is just a receiver and not a transmitter. The transmitter is the satellite which is controlled by the US and then can switch it off or introduce an error whenever they want.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 15:53   #11
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. In any case private / commercial users anyway use GPS so I doubt companies are going to develop phones with Navic receivers.
Why not? They never had options other than GPS & GLONASS. Now they will because they can .

Last edited by anoop.nair : 2nd May 2016 at 15:54. Reason: typo
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Old 3rd May 2016, 11:00   #12
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

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Why not? They never had options other than GPS & GLONASS. Now they will because they can .
Is there any cost advantage in using Navic? I mean most devices have already been developed for use with GPS and GLONASS. So investing in hardware and software for devices with Navic needs to be justified. Also devices can only be used in the Navic coverage area. That basically means you will not be able to use your Navic enabled phone when travelling abroad.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 11:25   #13
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Default Re: NAVIC: India's own Navigational System gets ready

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Why not? They never had options other than GPS & GLONASS. Now they will because they can.
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Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
Is there any cost advantage in using Navic?
One main limiting factor against NAVIC is the limited coverage. From a strategic point of view, it may not be required as of now to have a pan Asian or global coverage.

However from point of view of a mobile manufacturer, why add cost and bulk to the phone if the system you have does not work in many other countries once you are out of the SAARC region.

If the handset was designed only for India and if there was a substantial price difference between NAVIC receiver compared to GPS or GLONASS receiver it would make sense.
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