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Old 17th May 2016, 09:52   #151
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post

But wait !!! The constitution is what we have copied from the British - it has most of its parts copied from them - so we shouldn't be respecting itsn't it ?

We now respect and allow Google to PLAY GOD because it is American - read no dress code - and allows candidates to come for interviews in Shorts.
From the post it seems you're implying we respect the American things and not the British things. Correct me if I am wrong in understanding your post.

Fundamental Rights and Fundamental Duties, the two things being talked about in this thread are borrowed (not copied) from the Americans and Russians respectively. However, we don't allow Fundamental Rights to play GOD like Google simply because it is American, but because they conform to how an individual's rights should be protected from arbitrary and discriminatory actions of the State. This is a misunderstanding and needs to be shredded off.

While Parliamentary form of Government is an aspect modeled on the British system. We respect it right? We vote, we elect a representative Govt and they in turn legislate and execute policies. We don't respect it or disrespect it because it came from the British, we do it based on their merits and demerits.

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Old 17th May 2016, 10:19   #152
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

My 2 cents - Basic common sense says go decently dressed especially when dealing with government officials.

This cool "gentleman" who dared to go in shorts to the RTO (I am not sure in what state of mind he was in while he made this catastrophic decision);-) has sort of created an unwanted debate when there are burning issues pending to be discussed and acted upon.

Having said that, would one go in such attire for an interview or when going to a meet for anything of equal relevance? This is a classical case of pure "overconfident attitude" and trying to hog some limelight!
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Old 17th May 2016, 10:31   #153
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Correct me of I am wrong in understanding your post.
Yes, you're right in that you're wrong.

Read the whole post, not just bits and pieces and you should be able to get the context.

As long as you're a goose you'll be allowed to wear shorts - it's got nothing to do with your fundamental rights or duties.

Smart private organisations will do whatever they can to protect the bottom line and allowing a goose to wear shorts is just one of those.

Once the tables are turned (a la IBM for instance) you'll get to see the true colours coming out and you can keep screaming till the cows come home and it won't make a difference. Those who've been through the ups and downs of IT would know a bit about this by now.

Just as an additional note to what I've mentioned about handling geese - am currently been there - doing that.

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Old 17th May 2016, 10:57   #154
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Read the whole post, not just bits and pieces and you should be able to get the context.
Yes, mentioning about Constitution and its sources and private organizations and their actions in booms and distress periods in the same post is bound to confuse anyone.

By the way, bits and pieces make a whole. So, if one bit is wrong (like respect because of being an American thing), the whole can't be right You can't rely on the context alone to prove yourself right, content should also be.

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Smart private organisations will do whatever they can to protect the bottom line and allowing a goose to wear shorts is just one of those.
When Google's bad times will come, like IBM, if disallowing shorts will improve their productivity and help their bottom line, they should very well enforce them.

And of course, a private and a public body is capable to enforce dress codes. But until you have one, one can't cry foul. Bombay High Court has drafted dress codes for civilians as well. If a Govt office is also bothered about civilians dress code in their office, they may as well do it. It is within their executive power to do so. But until you do so, you are no one to tell people who come to your office what to wear and what not.

Quote:
Just as an additional note to what I've mentioned about handling geese - am currently been there - doing that.
Yup, I can relate to the IT field as well since I've been there although currently not. And the geese thing is not exclusive to IT alone. In bad times, even a Govt takes steps like laying off undeserving officers (Latest news of IRS officers bring sacked by Central Govt), reducing perks and salaries of Govt servants and judges during financial emergency.

Last edited by TD_GHY : 17th May 2016 at 11:01.
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Old 17th May 2016, 13:37   #155
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I don't understand the idea behind people calling the idea of wearing a pair of shorts disrespectful.
At home if I am in shorts in front of my parents, does that mean i'm being disrespectful towards them.
If we are talking about cultural disrespect, from when did pants and shirts become a part of our culture. As far as I know dhoti and Kurtha were only part of our culture for centuries.
If there is no law against public wearing Shorts to government offices, I don't understand why we are having a debate whether wearing shorts is right are wrong.
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Old 17th May 2016, 14:22   #156
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I have lived all my life in Mumbai and never had to think twice before wearing shorts or sandals to any place. I remember wearing shorts to nationalized banks, post offices and RTOs with no issues. The only exception is my office (my place of work) where a dress code is prescribed. I am appalled to see how my dressing can be misconstrued as the measure of my respect to the person I am interacting with.

Some of the responses here, especially from folks down south is really worrying given I am shifting to Bangalore in a months time. Perhaps, it is time to be more thoughtful while dressing even while trotting around town.
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Old 17th May 2016, 15:25   #157
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Originally Posted by iamkapilb View Post
I have lived all my life in Mumbai and never had to think twice before wearing shorts or sandals to any place. I remember wearing shorts to nationalized banks, post offices and RTOs with no issues. The only exception is my office (my place of work) where a dress code is prescribed. I am appalled to see how my dressing can be misconstrued as the measure of my respect to the person I am interacting with.

Some of the responses here, especially from folks down south is really worrying given I am shifting to Bangalore in a months time. Perhaps, it is time to be more thoughtful while dressing even while trotting around town.
I think thats an over reaction and please don't misconstrue this thread to believe that the South is narrow minded etc.

As has been submitted in many places on this thread, "dressing in smart casuals" or "formals" in general achieves a modicum of "better treatment" - for example, if you wear a jacket and go to check in to a flight, you will find a subtle change in the way the service people interact with you.
The same goes for the RTO and other places.

Don't come here with the mistaken impression that no one here wears shorts and t shirt. We aren't quite as narrow minded down south as you may think.

Its just that, when at a particular place, it is worth dressing appropriately, to ensure the successful completion of whatever you went there to achieve in the first place - in this case, a License at an RTO...
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Old 18th May 2016, 08:04   #158
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I read this thread few days back, was feeling disturbed by it (since it forced me to take a stand, atleast mentally) and kept coming back to it, and over past few days have been finding it to be right up there in terms of recall in my mind - Seems to suddenly spring to mind for no apparent reason.
Now thinking I will write in a few lines, hopefully will help exorcise. Some random thoughts:

1) Was in a public gathering last Sunday when people came in cars, and where participants could see the others come in, park their cars etc. Most cars looked clean and neat. Except for one that seemed to have been standing in the open for some days with leaves/dust/bird droppings on it. It was quite obvious the driver did not clean the the car (except for a portion of the windscreen on the drivers side which had some wipe marks on it). I could visibly see a look of distaste pass through on many people’s faces when they saw the car, followed by them turning away from the car, looking at other places to consciously avoid looking at the car. I must admit that a "YUCK!" thought passed through my mind on seeing the dirty car. Immediately followed by another thought whether the driver's behaviour (which I initially construed to be tardiness mixed with disrespect for others in the gathering) was actually fine, and it was wrong of me to have such a thought.

2) I remembered a past discussion from when I was 6 years old. Am a South Indian. Elder males used to wear 'lungi' at home. And wear a 'Mundu' ('veshti') as formal dressing. For me, a lungi was just a colored mundu, and similarly a mundu was just a white lungi. I could not comprehend why a lungi should not be worn on formal occasions. I can still remember elders in my house smiling indulgently at me while answering my question, but I remember I wasn’t convinced. Growing older, I have grown to accept the tradition that lungi is not the formal attire. So this thought suddenly came back to my mind, that if one wears a lungi and goes to a formal occasion, say to a marriage or a place of worship, is one being disrespectful to the host or to God? Would wearing a lungi to the RTO office have been OK?

3) The OP's comments as well as the news article linked in the first post indicates using an Agent. Not sure what the Agent's role was, and if it was to 'facilitate' the process. If going fully by the rule book (like the question asked on "where the rule was written"), should one have been following the rules clearly and not expecting any 'facilitation' by the Agent - or rather not using an Agent, but going by oneself? While using an Agent, does one become beholden to the Agent, and also bringing certain behaviours that come along with the process of ‘facilitation’? Will paying 'facilitation money' also enable people to be more lax in their dressing style?

4) Knowing there are formal versions of shorts and being smartly dressed, would such smart dressing in shorts have been OK? How does being ‘nattily dressed in shorts’ compare with a being ‘too casual in shorts’ (or a 'just got up from bed') look?
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Old 21st May 2016, 00:34   #159
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I think too much is being read into the issue, I for one feel that smart casuals (full jeans/khakis+tee) would be the very least that one should wear when going to an RTO. The reason is not because one has to be regressive minded in a regressive minded country, nor is it about not copying the west.. it is because it is.

That's why world-over in business meetings, people wear a suit. I cringed when every time the FB head came out to do presentations in a hoodie and tee, likewise for Steve Jobs, maybe it was just me but I do know many teased Mark Z for his very poor sense of dressing. In formal settings I like to dress it up, wristwatch and polished shoes included. We don't have to go that far when dealing with government officials but I guess a basic shirt + full pants (even a track-pant might do) would be the absolute minimum, we all dress like that 99% of the times don't we? To me wearing half-pants to a formal place is as bad as wearing a baniyan.. or is baniyan acceptable too?
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Old 21st May 2016, 11:02   #160
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

Dress sense or the lack of it - remember the MF Hussain fracas with Bombay Gymkhana. I sometimes feel that we take up some issues just for the heck of it.

Well I had a couple which came for a wedding in our family rather very shabbily dressed (in my view totally inappropriately) and that was the last time they were invited.

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Old 21st May 2016, 14:25   #161
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

Shock, horror... Brown boots at a funeral!



I'm afraid that all this stuff is colonial residue that India should have discarded a generation ago.

(If anyone thinks that, as a non-Indian, I do not have the right to make that comment, please excuse)

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Old 21st May 2016, 15:56   #162
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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........If anyone thinks that, as a XXXXX, I do not have the right to make that comment, please excuse......
You're perfectly entitled to have and voice your opinion irrespective of your nationality, and the part of your comment I highlighted above is exactly what's wrong with this country.

We do not believe in everyone's right to have an opinion, and are quick to shout down anything that's perceived against 'traditional wisdom' as 'outside influences'.

If I'm offended by something you say, I'm entitled to debate you till the cows come home or one of us drops dead, but I will never take away your right to have & express an opinion, even an offensive one. Offense is relative perception, not fact. Every single thing one says could potentially offend someone, so should we turn deaf & mute? Even that might offend someone.

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Old 21st May 2016, 20:57   #163
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I am surprised at this, I live in the middle east and we are allowed to wear shorts to government offices. As rightly pointed by someone if its a "cultural issue" then we should not be wearing pants/jeans we should be only wearing dhoti or pyjama and kurta.

If there is a dress code prescribed I can understand, but when there is none.

Next we will hear is "girl was wearing jeans and RTO denied license stating it is against rules" then we will hear all the Feminists crying out loud on social media.
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Old 21st May 2016, 22:07   #164
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Next we will hear is "girl was wearing jeans and RTO denied license stating it is against rules" then we will hear all the Feminists crying out loud on social media.
Would have thought it even more likely than it happening to a man, and I hope we will join the outcry. I certainly will.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 08:33   #165
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I agree the right to dress as one pleases may seem like a fundamental right, but as per law it is not. Hence companies and organizations can legally enforce dress codes. As far as I know private companies of all sizes do have a dress code and Infosys in particular had been enforcing ties to office from Mondays to Thursdays with smart casuals over weekends until recently. In-fact one couldn't enter the campus without a tie and the security person at the gate had a 'right' to stop you!
I didn't see anyone raise a hue and cry on this 'blatant display of arrogance' by the security guard in general and the company in particular.
Regarding the case in this thread, the gentleman in particular chose to dress like my car cleaner in old shorts and a tee shirt, to presumably get an important document from the RTO. Was he poorly dressed? Yes! Was the RTO officer right in refusing service to him? I am not sure, after all the RTO department has no written rules regarding dress code, so any interpretation of a dress code by an individual is his/her personal choice.

Last edited by apachelongbow : 23rd May 2016 at 08:37.
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