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Old 12th May 2016, 16:27   #61
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Originally Posted by TD_GHY View Post
1. No, the RTO is not doing him a favour. It is his duty. The RTO is paid for his duty, and the applicant has paid for the service.

2. Why is the grocery store keeper a lowly being undeserving of respect from a person like us but a RTO is? Because he earns more? Or because he is educated more? Or because there are multiple stores and only one RTO?
I think the entire discussion is taking an idealistic tone ignoring the several grey shades. What does an RTO officer get paid sir for issuing us license? For what he gets paid (legible earnings of course) why should he consider it as a duty? My father was a senior executive in a nationalized bank and I know he got paid a third of what I get paid while he was playing a zillion times bigger and a direct role in contributing to our nation. And you know how we customers talk to bankers in a public sector setting. The a key ingredient that that keeps driving such senior citizens is a sense of pride and a feeling of importance they associate with their job. So 'sense of duty' is a simplistic way of looking at this.

And on your point 2, I am not saying a young sales guy doesnt deserve ones respect. All I am saying is if he is in the job expecting respect, then (s)he is bound for disappointment every day. Why should I shower a young sales girl who trails my back in a long aisle with a lot of respect? I would rather politely tell her to mind her own business while I continue with my window shopping.

And let us get back on track, my post was about someone wearing shorts to the RTO office and the basic presence of mind. It is similar to wearing a complete black dress at a South Indian wedding. People will politely ask you to change to a lighter shade! KYC - Know Your Context!

Last edited by Aditya : 13th May 2016 at 06:30. Reason: Editing quoted text
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Old 12th May 2016, 16:48   #62
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I guess it would be pointless to point out (excuse the pun) the blatant hypocrisy of said upholders of 'official respect and sanctity' of the organisation having ABSOLUTELY no qualms sullying the same esteemed chair (usually several times a day) by demanding money routed below the same table that bears their official nameplate, that they claim is offended by a shorts-wearing citizen?

Real respect is commanded, not petulantly demanded.
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Old 12th May 2016, 17:22   #63
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
I guess it would be pointless to point out (excuse the pun) the blatant hypocrisy of said upholders of 'official respect and sanctity' of the organisation having ABSOLUTELY no qualms sullying the same esteemed chair (usually several times a day) by demanding money routed below the same table that bears their official nameplate, that they claim is offended by a shorts-wearing citizen?

Real respect is commanded, not petulantly demanded.
Now here we come to the point!
Walking inside an RTO in shorts mean this: You are all sitting here for the few hundred rupees I am going to throw at you as bribe - so I am free to walk anyway I please.
Again, nothing wrong in such opinion, as I hope everyone agrees that the respect for any institution is lost when the authorities indulge in malpractices & expect bribes to do the work.
There are also several other places in India apart from RTOs, where bribes are more of a norm than exception. I hope that gentleman will make it a point to show the appropriate disrespect wherever the authorities do not command the respect.
If any useful battle is fought, it should be against the bribes, not just for a pair of shorts, in my opinion.
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Old 12th May 2016, 17:32   #64
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I think this discussion is blown out of proportion. Let me break this up a little. Every place has a decorum to be maintained. Dressing up for work, funeral, office, party, wedding, holy places,holidays etc has certain accepted and practiced ways, isnt it. So lets agree on that.
Now, if you are going to a govt office why would one wear shorts ? Debatable. If you walk into a police station past midnight, you wont be surprised if you see the police guys is vests. Now thats the difference here. It reflects a bit more on the approach towards the kind of place you visit.

IMO, the place or event that is being attended calls for appropriate dressing not an individual. Dressing up for every occasion is a basic one, we must use common sense and discretion here. Wouldn't that make life easier, simpler and avoid unnecessary events.
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Old 12th May 2016, 17:37   #65
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
....Walking inside an RTO in shorts mean this: You are all sitting here for the few hundred rupees I am going to throw at you as bribe - so I am free to walk anyway I please.......
If I may say so politely, you're being presumptuous and rude. Feel free to draw your own inferences from what you read, but please refrain from telling me what I 'meant'.

Just so I'm clear, I only meant to point out that the same officials see nothing wrong in demeaning the sanctity of their esteemed office every single day, but act high & mighty when a common citizen they're sworn to serve without prejudice does something they 'feel' inappropriate?

If common decency & respect are long-standing social ideals that deserve obedience, honesty and respecting one's own profession aren't exactly new-fangled 'modern' ideas, are they?

Like I said, command respect by setting an example and doing what one preaches, not throwing toys out of the proverbial pram just because one can.

P.S. If citizens walking into govt. offices dressed 'inappropriately' is such a deal-breaker for the officials, I wonder what stops the govt. from issuing a dress code notice so we can all stop 'being offensive' and get on with the job at hand?

P.P.S. It's the RTO that decided to make it a battle for respect, not the citizen in question, so I don't really understand how/why anyone should be interpreting it as a 'I wore shorts intentionally to make a point' scenario.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 12th May 2016 at 17:50.
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Old 12th May 2016, 17:47   #66
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Talking Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I misjudged the TBHP crowd. More than five pages of 'discussion'? LOL.

However, all this has nothing to do with the dress code - it is a simple strategy used by -fill in some choice words- RTO employees to hassle people so they get their cut. Same as their politician bosses whose favorite game is to blame the 'other' guy.
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Old 12th May 2016, 18:01   #67
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

I think we all need to cool down.

Anyways, my cents.

With all due respect, if we ask this person here (who went in shorts and shabby Tees) just one question.
Would you go in this attire to a Client meeting OR a visa interview OR a passport appointment OR a judiciary hearing OR a similar driving test conducted in UK/US instead of India?
If the answer is YES, then I guess we have nothing to say against this gentleman because he treats everyone equally.
If the answer is NO, then my honest and personal opinion is that a driving test in front of a Government Officer should also qualify as an equally formal occasion like the above other formal occasions.

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Originally Posted by TD_GHY View Post
Now this is where the typical Indian mindset lie.

1. No, the RTO is not doing him a favour. It is his duty. The RTO is paid for his duty, and the applicant has paid for the service.
My dear Friend,
In my opinion, it is an examination. The candidate has to pass this exam to earn a License to drive. So, it can be seen as a formal occasion.
A license is not a commodity or something like a soap or toothpaste, which is purchased by simply paying money (Even though in reality, this is the case).
So, the person here is in essence not really a customer. He is an 'applicant'.

Last edited by abhishek46 : 12th May 2016 at 18:14. Reason: added quote
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Old 12th May 2016, 18:46   #68
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
My dear Friend,
In my opinion, it is an examination. The candidate has to pass this exam to earn a License to drive. So, it can be seen as a formal occasion.
I guess in that case, we can treat other examinations, like college or entrance examinations the same way.
1. In the colleges that I studied, boys and girls alike could attend and give exams in any dress they preferred, including shorts. Didn't mean I or they took our exams casually. (We didn't have the time to dress up ) Simply that we and our Professors took exams more seriously than our attire.
2. I even see people going for entrance exams in shorts nowadays (and clearing them too).

Quote:
A license is not a commodity or something like a soap or toothpaste, which is purchased by simply paying money (Even though in reality, this is the case).
So, the person here is in essence not really a customer. He is an 'applicant'.
There is a very fine line between an applicant and customer. A person 'applying' for a bank loan is also a 'customer'. A person 'applying' for a gas connection' is also a 'customer'. Similarly, a person 'applying' for a license is also a 'customer'. If one can't wear shorts to the RTO, how can we overlook them wearing shorts to a bank or a gas agency.

Anyway, peace out. Going way off topic now. Apologies to all whose time was robbed due to this.

Last edited by TD_GHY : 12th May 2016 at 18:49. Reason: Spelling and Grammatical mistakes
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Old 12th May 2016, 18:54   #69
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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I am serious. Your logic is somewhat baffling - It's a free world?

Why stop at shorts? Why not go there in your undies? Hell why even wear them? And hey, why only RTO? Why not to the Passport Office? Why not to Multiplexes? Let me guess, you are not married, so why not land at your marriage wearing shorts? Also, places for worship as well! Get where I am going?

And its not about being materialistic at all, it's about basic common sense. You should dress to every occasion - being at any office and dressed appropriately, (and not in a business suit all the time) is just common sense. I really don't wish to argue against common sense.
Wearing shorts and walking nude or in briefs is completely different. I am guessing that you're unaware that people of my age (above 18) are cool with wearing shorts,even boxers to where ever we want because we or at least I, don't give a darn about what anyone else thinks and I won't wear trousers or jeans in the baking summer heat.
Btw, Kurt Cobain got married in pyjamas.
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Old 12th May 2016, 19:22   #70
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

Its no one's business to concern themselves with what another person wears. But I do agree - you wear respectful clothes to respectful places/occasions.

The RTO should start off by showing more "respect" towards their own workplace by ensuring fair services, getting their premises rid of agents and middlemen and keeping their offices clean. Maybe then their judgement calls would carry more weight.

Reminds of me when Thirupathi Temple management decided to allow only kache pacnhe/dhothi as acceptable clothing for men, as if to say God won't accept you if you wear a formal pant-shirt . Since it caught majority of devotees by surprise, the guys selling dhothis to the long lines outside had a markup of at least 50%
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Wearing shorts and walking nude or in briefs is completely different. I am guessing that you're unaware that people of my age (above 18) are cool with wearing shorts,even boxers to where ever we want because we or at least I, don't give a darn about what anyone else thinks and I won't wear trousers or jeans in the baking summer heat.
Btw, Kurt Cobain got married in pyjamas.
Most certainly! Wearing shorts, is not the same as wearing undies showing off one's a$$ cheeks. It's funny that someone would even draw that analogy
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Old 12th May 2016, 20:06   #71
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Wearing shorts and walking nude or in briefs is completely different. I am guessing that you're unaware that people of my age (above 18) are cool with wearing shorts,even boxers to where ever we want because we or at least I, don't give a darn about what anyone else thinks and I won't wear trousers or jeans in the baking summer heat.

Btw, Kurt Cobain got married in pyjamas.

As I said before. I will stick up for anybody to wear anything, anywhere, anytime. Whether its smart not to give a damn about what others feel or think is again a matter of personal opinion.

There are times you should stick to your principles, there are times it might be advisable/better/more appropriate to adjust to others.

What matters is what is really important to you. Waiting in line at the RTO is a pain. I put on suit and a tie, they will escort my right in. Personally, i think the joke is on them, not me.

I think its stupid if people judge me differently because of what I wear. I have no problem by using their own stupid way of thinking to get my own way.

You stick to your shorts and get to the end of the queue.
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Old 12th May 2016, 20:49   #72
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a license!

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WOW!! Going by that "confrontationist" logic, we would have never gained the "semi" Independence that we currently enjoy. Had our freedom fighter taken this view, that lets go with the flow, why go against it, its ok lets pass our times & the future generations be damned, we would still have been reeling under the British & still many people would have said, "its ok, we don't have the time or the energy or the will to do anything about it"!!

Again with that logic, "dressing up to speed up work", why not take it to the next level & say "while in India do as the indians do" & thus pay bribes or indulge in corruption & get your damn work done, it saves precious time & energy for some other useful chores!!

So the problem is with the babus attitudes & not with the person dressed up in shorts or alternate attires, the babu sitting on the chair needs a lesson or two, not the innocent person whos turned up to get his job done. Come on what are we debating, are we saying that the corrupt babu occupying his seat & drawing his salary from our taxes has the right to insult us or be judgemental on our clothes/appearances ? My God because some people carry such mindsets, thus the country ceases to change.

Agreed we were not born with the British system of clothing as well, also we gained a long fought independence from them. So why not choose our our clothing.

Now who will decide what to wear on what occasion, the wearer or the onlooker ? If we do not get this amount of Independence, I guess we are a slave to our own mindsets.

Let me narrate a few examples on how things change when people fight for them, the long hair whig Judges used to wear in Courtrooms was done away with, the title "my Lord" is no more necessary to be used in Courts. During my days in the med school some teachers were hell bent that everyone wear a lab coat even in classrooms during lectures. Now imagine 50deg C temp & high humidity, full day electricity cuts & we were made to sweat it out. Now lab coats are ok during clinical classes or lab but wearing them in a classroom, that make no sense. But no one was ready to do a thing about it. As being a "confrontationist" here would have translated into dire consequences(anyone who knows med schools in India would know). Still that didn't stop me from speaking my mind off & it did create a few problems but the evil was done away with finally. So one to take a stand where you feel the need. Otherwise go with the flow & never see a change in your country.

We Indians need to shrug off that "chalta hai" attitude & start being the change.

You're welcome Sir to do just as you please.
If this is your attitude to getting your work done at public places, then I will only wish you luck. Because in all probability you will be the victim of disrespect and possibly ridicule and most certainly will not be taken as seriously as perhaps you may wish to be, given the type of people that staff these places.

Where does "Freedom" and all the rest of the hyperbole come into it?
All we are talking about here is a simple dress code and decorum in a public office or at a "formal sort of place". Some of the expected norms of dress, while they may seem "conformist" "non questioning" and "ill suited for the climate", unfortunately, have become well entrenched in the mind sets of people. Dressing properly tends to pour oil on situations and provides, to an extent the requisite lubrication for "efficiency" and "speed" in getting your work done.

Personally I think that my time would be better utilised by getting my work done quickly and efficiently by conforming to a sort of "predictable non confrontationist dress code" rather than my spending valuable time and wasting it, by tilting at windmills in the form of these Babus. I'd rather get my license renewed quietly and walk away, so as to never have to see that Babu's ugly mug for the next 10 years, rather than try and bait him and irritate him and thus, get entangled in the worst sort of Red Tape reinforced Babudom that dear old India is famous for, on account of something perfectly silly, like wearing shorts and trying to fight for my personal rights in the matter of "dress".

Choose your battles wisely, so you can win them, is a piece of Wisdom that is worth following.

In this case, the Battle that I want to Win, is simply getting my License with the minimum possible fuss.
Can always fight the Dress related battle when it is necessary.

So, if you wish, you're welcome to put your pet theories to the test by prancing or leaping about the countryside or neighbourhood in your briefs or whatever else takes your fancy and much luck to you!

Last edited by shankar.balan : 12th May 2016 at 20:59.
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Old 12th May 2016, 21:07   #73
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

Didn't quite appreciate the way things turned out for the gentleman, but to think of it without any prejudice, my office has strict rules against shorts and other kinds of clothes (I'm sure most corporates have it). No one is allowed in the premises like that (Applies to both men and women). So if we were to apply the same logic to RTO or any other government office, that would make sense. It becomes tricky when such offices have to face general public who are not aware of any such 'rules'.
They should have at least put up a notice about the dress-code.

I for one usually don't go to any office (banks, Govt offices) wearing casuals. Its a personal choice but if the person sitting across the table has to follow a certain dress code, I make sure I at least come closer to it.
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Old 12th May 2016, 21:53   #74
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a license!

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
in all probability you will be the victim of disrespect and possibly ridicule and most certainly will not be taken as seriously as perhaps you may wish to be
All we are talking about here is a simple dress code and decorum in a public office or at a "formal sort of place".

Personally I think that my time would be better utilised by getting my work done quickly and efficiently by conforming to a sort of "predictable non confrontationist dress code"
I follow a very simple logic, do what you feel is right & then take a stand on it. Im a principled man & appeasing babus or acting up to their whims & fancies would be the last thing I'd ever resort to.

Babus are just meant to do the work they are meant to do, its people who pamper their inflated egos that they act in a way the OP had to face. Simple & straight forward conclusion to the thread is "wear the kind of dress you desire to wear, people may judge you & the stereotypical society that India is will form opinions but all behind your back. When this comes in the way of your work, stand & fight for your right. Don't ever fall a victim, a prey to some corrupt, immoral, unjust babu/bureaucrat.

Its you who defines yourself & not your clothes or shoes or the accessories you wear. Your personality should shine through what you wear, in other words don't let your clothes wear you!

& remember its your life you are living, live the way you like or intend to, don't let others influence your ideas when you know you are on the right side.

Wear your attitude!
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Old 12th May 2016, 22:01   #75
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Default Re: Wearing shorts to the RTO? You can't get a licence

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Originally Posted by avdhesh15 View Post
I guess it happens everywhere - I had to deal with a high ranking (commissioner level) once for my business which I do with 3 partners and was the first such interaction in my life. Let's say his name was Mr Honda City. When I met him, I addressed him as Honda ji.

No idea what happened until a day the 3 of us were having breakfast and my partner said that the guy had called and said I disrespected him. My other partner and I were quite shocked! Turned out that first name is an insult and he expects only and only to be called City saab!

Since that day, only the partner who understands buttering up these guys does the interaction. The other 2 of us have stayed out.
If its a private meeting, I think it does matter what your wearing matters,

Wearing shorts at an RTO to collect their licence is very debatable, Is there any such rule of wearing appropriate clothing while visiting the RTO for either collecting licence or Buying yourself a special number?

Anyhow i feel if you have to visit or meet a high ranking officer either for his signature, Dressing well should be good idea,

Speaking from my experiences while visiting RTO for buying special number of my car, I had an amazing response from all of them and the work was done very swiftly, I was dressed in a jeans, tee and shoes. (If that may have helped in anyway)
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