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Old 31st May 2016, 11:02   #16
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
You don't want to pay for the driver's time but want the convenience of just in time. Just drive a car in peak traffic and see what happens to fuel economy, the taxi fare has to include all input costs not just fuel and it won't be covered by the 14.5 per km fare set by the government. Bangalore traffic takes its toll, even if the car is brand new. A few bad apples do exist, but you can opt out with a combination of bmtc and the local auto and see how it works out.
Mr. Avira, I have shared my experience here, this forum has been used in the past by fellow bhpians to fight for genuine issues, whether it was a fight against Skoda or Bangalore RTO which was penalising out of state vehicles with hefty fines. The objective of the forum is to allow people share all kinds of experience, one individual cannot experience every kind of problem in his lifetime. So if you find a view which does not make sense, write your opinion. Dont go to the extent of using words like 'you don't want to pay for the driver's time but want the convenience of just in time. Just drive a car in peak traffic and see what happens to fuel economy' I am a passionate driver but just not driving now as i underwent a neurosurgery for removal of brain tumor and not fit enough to start driving in city. Please avoid making personalized comments.

Last edited by GTO : 1st June 2016 at 10:45. Reason: Quoted post edited
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Old 31st May 2016, 11:18   #17
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

If this is implemented, commuters who use these taxis are going to be hit the worst.

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Originally Posted by chandrda View Post
What is GoK Policy states -

1. Taxi taking license for City/Metered Cab have to give up State or National Permits
This is a thing these drivers won't agree to. Many drivers who own cars generally drive them on outstation trips which pay well and drive the Uber/Ola service when they're in town.

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7. No surge pricing in peak hours and difficult situation (rains), it should not cross the price ceiling set
That is a true killer. Peak pricing is what Ola/Uber thrives on.

Does the italicized part mean they can have peak time surge if the price will remain within the price mentioned by Government?
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Old 31st May 2016, 11:35   #18
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

Time of travel is a billable component in most countries, even auto drivers factor it when they quote their fares. More time means lower fuel economy, the biggest cost factor,you complained about that. The objective of the forum is not entirely about sharing experiences, it's mostly opinions, over a wide spectrum, everyone on a review thread isn't an owner and some people still prefer autos to Uber .

There is nothing personal in my post, you is singular as well as plural. Your medical condition wasn't the subject, just a simple question of whether anyone who wants the convenience of a taxi aggregator should complain after having voluntarily chosen to pay a higher fare. .
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Old 31st May 2016, 11:42   #19
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

On a outset, I think Ola and Uber is paying unfair and is trying to strong arm the government. Today they are protesting at Airport road and have blocked the traffic completely.

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Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
The challenge is when you get into a cab which is not road-worthy and you see the travelling time increasing from 60 minutes to 150 minutes, you will have to pay INR 90 extra because travelling time is also billed at the rate of Rs.1/min. Ola claims that all their vehicles are in pristine condition, then how do you see cabs especially old Indicas without power steering and AC.
True - Totally agree with this point. If an old\not in good condition cab turns up and causes more time to cover the distance than the time taken by a cab in good condition, why the traveler have to be penalized?

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
That's pretty rich, you don't want to pay for the driver's time but want the convenience of just in time.
I think you are barking against the wrong tree. As deepak said, why do I or you have to pay extra amount if the extra time is caused by the issues with the cab?

I am not against paying the normal amount, but if I have to spend 30 minutes extra in traffic and on the top, have to pay 30 INR extra, because of the issues with the cab, I will not be a happy customer.

--Anoop

Last edited by theexperthand : 31st May 2016 at 11:47.
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Old 31st May 2016, 12:28   #20
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

In the complaint against Zyppys as posted in this thread by me, I have pointed out the lapses in the operational procedures by app based taxi facilitators like Ola, Uber TFS, and Zyppys. I helped out the driver after seeing him struggling on the dangerous Charmadi ghat during midnight. Who would have come to my help if I had died or suffered injuries because of an inexperienced driver? Safety comes first, I took the decision to drive a yellow board vehicle to safeguard myself, the driver and the vehicle. Zyppys have failed to provide me a convincing answer since yesterday. The insurance coverage for passengers should be owned by app based taxi facilitators and coverage details made available to customers at the time of booking. There should be a minimum amount of insurance defined in the law as per today's standards and app based taxi facilitators should be responsible for any lapse and not the drivers since we know that RTO works on 'bribe and ride' system.
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Old 31st May 2016, 13:05   #21
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
As deepak said, why do I or you have to pay extra amount if the extra time is caused by the issues with the cab?

I am not against paying the normal amount, but if I have to spend 30 minutes extra in traffic and on the top, have to pay 30 INR extra, because of the issues with the cab, I will not be a happy customer.

--Anoop
Errrmm ... could you please elucidate what are these "extra amount" and "normal amount" terminologies?

And they are extra and normal with respect to which standards and references?
And if they are indeed quantified with a reference to some figure or standard then what is the underlying logic to arrive at that figure or standard?
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Old 31st May 2016, 13:46   #22
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

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Originally Posted by Bh.P View Post
And I find this surge pricing algorithm more opportunistic than based on load. NEver been able to understand this. I sometimes see 5 cabs in my vicinity, but there would be a 1.6x surge pricing. Surely if demand was high, there would not be 5 cabs available to me.
It has been acknowledged by Uber that the cars displayed on the map are not always actually accurate due to latency issues as well as since they want to give the impression to customers that a taxi is available.

Besides, 5 taxi's being available does not mean that demand is low, there could be a 100 people looking for a taxi, which means demand is high! Surge pricing is based on how many people have the Uber app open in an area, so if a couple is calling a cab and both try to get an Uber, they're actually increasing the chances of surge pricing.
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Old 31st May 2016, 14:10   #23
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Errrmm ... could you please elucidate what are these "extra amount" and "normal amount" terminologies?

And they are extra and normal with respect to which standards and references?
And if they are indeed quantified with a reference to some figure or standard then what is the underlying logic to arrive at that figure or standard?
I hope you would have read Deepak's post, which lead to Avira's post and my post.

Ola claims that all their cars are in pristine condition, but in reality, many of the cabs are not in top notch condition. Personally, my wife had to endure a driver switching off the AC since the cab was not pulling with AC on, and have seen not so good condition cabs arriving to pick up my brother\Sister multiple times.

Ola bills travel time at 1rs/min scale.

Now, imagine this - you are calling two OLAs to go from point A to point B. Suppose you get two cabs where one can is in good condition, but the other is in a not so good condition. Now, if the good condition cab covers the distance in 60 minutes while the not so good cab took 90 minutes, the travelers in the first cab will pay 60 INR as travel time charge, while the travelers in second cab would have sat extra 30 minutes in the traffic and have to pay 90 INR as travel charges - not because of their fault, but because the cab was not in proper condition, and took longer time to cover the distance.

Deepak and I was saying that paying this extra 30 rs will not make us happy, while we are happy to pay 60 INR.

--Anoop
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Old 31st May 2016, 14:10   #24
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

Thanks Anoop for understanding what I was conveying to user like Avira, I have attached my bills here, please see the variations in total bill amount. The pickup time is all around same time, drop location is same, pick up location is same, and all bookings are under 'micro' category. I (plural form), am not rich enough to let that extra 20 or 30 rupees slip each day. Some Ola drivers donít like 'micro' category but I have seen genuine drivers having vehicles like Swift, Fiesta and Etios providing service under 'micro' category. The modus operandi is very simple, the nexus among drivers around places like EGL and MG Road is like that they donít opt for 'micro' category during peak hours, which in turn creates a demand for 'micro' category and there comes the surcharge response from Ola. Customers using cabs over long distance always look for 'micro' since it is economical. What I do to counter this problem is look for 'Mini' or 'Prime', so you get good vehicles, free Wi-Fi and AC, and still the overall bill will be less.
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Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License-billing-variations.jpg  


Last edited by deehunk : 31st May 2016 at 14:18.
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Old 31st May 2016, 14:45   #25
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

Wonderful and timely move by the government. I hope the crackdown is successful.

People crying about license raj etc - maybe they can afford the insane pricing that Ola or Uber offer. Maybe it is cheaper than owning a car and driving it about. But it is not cheap to most of the people who do not have this option but use Ola or Uber for what it basically is - a taxi service!

Granted - they provide a means to travel distances within the city that was difficult some years ago. For instance, going to the airport was a hassle - you needed to book a cab in advance. But trust me, I am starting to think that the private cab operators are mostly cheaper than Ola or Uber in most cases. The only convenience offered by OU is that you can get a cab at your doorstep during the day time. They are pretty much like autowallas in all other cases - they will not come to many locations, they will ask you to walk to a pickup point, there aren't many available in case of an emergency and they turn you down often. When we get irritated at autowallas asking us "one and a half" why do we need to put up with surge pricing? And moreover, I really do not understand the logic behind surge pricing. How can it be surge pricing if there are 4 to 5 cabs around my location obviously waiting idly? Moreover, why should we pay for something like surge pricing? Ok, let the government at least fix an upper limit. Like how they have given in to the auto driver unions asking for "one and a half" when travelling at night.

For me, it is insane that surge pricing can be even 8.0x times the amount! And there isn't any traffic even on that day! Are you telling me that there are less OU cabs on the road and you are trying to make your money by surging pricing? So that you can tally your account balances no matter what at the end of the day?

That is why it is important we read what the GoK has been stating - and chandrda has elucidated a few posts back. Those are important points! Background checks, GPS tracking, panic button, maximum limit are all needed!
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Old 31st May 2016, 14:51   #26
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

While I'm a big fan of taxi aggregators, since they are extremely convenient, there needs to be more responsibility taken from the aggregator's side. Firstly, the drivers drive independently and the ride is tracked through GPS, but only for the sake of the fare and convenience (it tells us where the driver is before we are picked up).

Otherwise, there are no safety measures for the driver or the passengers. There needs to be a camera inside the car - a still camera which captures pictures at a particular rate. There needs to be a panic button which will alert authorities and the camera captures pictures at a higher rate to capture evidence of any crime. Also, once the panic button is pressed, a microphone inside the car should go Live, so that someone at the call center can listen in on what's going on in the car. Panic buttons should be present for both the driver and the passenger.

The pictures captured in the camera can be purged on a weekly basis.

There also needs to be continuous radio contact with a base call center so that there is some control and perception of safety. This is how radio taxis work abroad. When we can employ technology in terms of apps for convenience of the public, why can't this be done? I'm sure the best of both worlds can be merged into a good Taxi service. While background checks are done for drivers, once a driver joins a taxi aggregator, why can't a camera and related equipment (panic buttons) be retrofitted into the car?

As far as the fares are concerned, there should be some autonomy for the taxi aggregators/companies to set their fares.
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Old 31st May 2016, 15:09   #27
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

As I understand that Auto drivers need to get a police verification done for them to get their "badge"/"permit". Why not the same for badges issued to the drivers.

Aggregators are simply that a platform for bringing together individual cabbies who otherwise are the mercy of tour operators or the like for business. This opens up an entire new market to them. So why penalize an aggregator and consequently drivers who clearly are benefitting.

Further, this is a business. Why should the government interfere in pricing. As someone validly pointed out, will they fix the price of vegetables etc.? No one if forcing you to take an Uber or an OLA, if surge pricing does not meet your expectation take an alternate less convenient mode of transport.

By doing this, essentially the government is forcing everyone to charge out at the maximum allowed rate. How does that help anyone?

At the risk of repeating myself, who is forcing consumers who do not want to pay the price to use the service?
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Old 31st May 2016, 15:16   #28
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

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Originally Posted by phoenixash View Post
It has been acknowledged by Uber that the cars displayed on the map are not always actually accurate due to latency issues as well as since they want to give the impression to customers that a taxi is available. ...
I would take what these apps companies say with a pinch of salt. Would they be willing to publish their algorithm? I have a feeling that their surge pricing runs on an extortion algorithm, rather than demand/supply algorithm. Why else would it introduce surge pricing when it begins to rain during an off peak hour? This is my feeling based on my experience. Others can comment based on theirs.

Also, if we are arguing that surge pricing is acceptable based on the premise of demand/supply market forces, then what are they doing to bridge the gap over a period of time? Are they trying to enroll more cabs/expand their base to do business on volumes, rather than continuing to extort customers? In most demand/supply based market commodities, it is a practice to try and bridge the gap so the price corrects itself over a period of time. But here I have seen the price continually increase since the time these guys came to market.

Plus, it looks like these guys want to make a quick buck with no accountability what so ever. If you are charging a premium, you need to have good reasons. Just offering convenience of booking does not warrant a huge premium they in my view.
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Old 31st May 2016, 16:04   #29
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Whatever you may call it, how much ever you may abuse the pricing, the fact is that it is because of Ola and Uber that you can think of NOT buying a vehicle if all you plan to do is travel inside the city.
I am based in Hyderabad and I have seen Ola and Uber surge the price to 2.5 to 3.5 time the normal amount especially during the office hours. Initially I did not want to get a car but due to the unfair and unreasonably high amounts that I have to pay to use these services i am indeed PLANNING TO BUY a car.

Currently there isn't any transparency in their price surge policy. The operators do not define under what circumstances will there be a hike in their rates and by how much. They just let us know that X times the rate will be applied if we book a cab now. As many have already stated that even thought we see that there are more than one cab available close to our location there is still a hike in their service price.

So how are these corporate organizations different from the auto services?

Also, why would the governments need to poke its nose if things were transparent?

Definitely people are being inconvenienced by the unfair tactics of these services and there is nothing wrong with the government taking action against these errant operators.
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Old 31st May 2016, 16:18   #30
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Default re: Ola & Uber might suffer ban in Karnataka. EDIT: Ola gets KA License

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Originally Posted by Bh.P View Post
I would take what these apps companies say with a pinch of salt. Would they be willing to publish their algorithm? I have a feeling that their surge pricing runs on an extortion algorithm, rather than demand/supply algorithm. Why else would it introduce surge pricing when it begins to rain during an off peak hour?
Well it's our word vs theirs, and given that they are providing the service we have to take their word for it. No-one will publish their algorithm, this is their intellectual property and quite frankly, if you are unhappy with how it works, use an alternative service. Take a normal metered taxi!

Personally, I have not experienced surge pricing during light rainfall etc here in Mumbai, but arguably I do not use the service daily. I don't believe off-peak / peak hours are relevant during rain, as you would have a lot more people who would generally walk / take a bus / take an auto be looking for an Uber, given the doorstep service it provides. So essentially, demand DOES go up. Besides, Uber has been very good (or has later refunded fares) about not implementing surge pricing during actual emergencies - there have been various examples in the US, Canada, Europe where during natural disasters like flooding, unprecedented snow-fall, terrorist attacks (Paris), the company has turned off their surge pricing algorithm.

Quote:
Also, if we are arguing that surge pricing is acceptable based on the premise of demand/supply market forces, then what are they doing to bridge the gap over a period of time? Are they trying to enroll more cabs/expand their base to do business on volumes, rather than continuing to extort customers? In most demand/supply based market commodities, it is a practice to try and bridge the gap so the price corrects itself over a period of time. But here I have seen the price continually increase since the time these guys came to market.
I think the problem here is that we expect Uber to be doing social service to the country. Let's be clear, it is the responsibility of the government in power to ensure good quality public transport which is easily accessible and fairly priced (BUT this does not mean that when a private operator is offering a good quality alternative to the lack of public transport, the government should enforce stupid restrictions and licensing to make up for their own short-comings and lack of planning). Unfortunately, we do not have this in India, and are dependent on private operators like Uber / Ola which are bridging the gap.

Uber is a private company, and all private companies have only ONE objective, to turn a profit and create value for shareholders. As a service, they are taking advantage of gaps in public transport by offering a super-convenient, fairly priced (at most times) taxi option to users who can afford this.

Surge pricing is something they developed to ensure that they do not have a multitude of users opening the app and seeing no cabs available (because if this happens often enough, users will not return to the app). The only way to make sure cabs are always available, is to implement a natural supply/demand force, and logically how this should work is:

Demand increases in a certain area (due to any reason - rain / peak hours) beyond the available cars > the surge pricing algorithm comes into play > this encourages more Uber/Ola drivers to venture to this area of high demand due to opportunity of higher fares, ie supply increases > equilibrium is reached and surge pricing reverts to regular pricing.

This is exactly how air fares / hotel tariffs / car rental prices etc work. Even the Indian Railways has implemented dynamic pricing! They had dynamic pricing during the April - June & December holiday period! Why are we ok with this, but not a similar model for cab fares?

I also disagree on prices having increased over time, atleast in Mumbai, where we have pretty good public transport (compared to the rest of the country) and auto-rickshaws / taxis are fairly easy to get, prices have fallen with UberGo & Ola Micro. An UberGo is more reasonably priced that a normal black-and-yellow cab, and offers the additional comfort of air-conditioning (which is definitely worth it in humid Mumbai) as well as arriving at my door to pick me up. The cars we get are also much better maintained and driven than the sad Santros / Premier Padmini's and Maruti Van taxi's.

Also, just based on my conversation with various Uber drivers and friends, the number of drivers enrolling to drive for Uber is growing exponentially, almost every Uber driver I get has been driving for less than 3 months, and/or is buying another vehicle to enrol as an Uber for the extra money he can earn. It is only in Uber's interest for the number of vehicles to increase as they earn a flat commission per ride so more volumes is how they will increase their revenues.

Quote:
Plus, it looks like these guys want to make a quick buck with no accountability what so ever. If you are charging a premium, you need to have good reasons. Just offering convenience of booking does not warrant a huge premium they in my view.
So Uber's USPs are - convenience of the cab coming to you instead of you going to the cab, a well-maintained car with air conditioning, and cashless transactions (which is now diluted given that they have activated cash payment option). Even if you assume that they are charging a 'premium' (which is only really a premium during surge pricing), they are not forcing you to pay it.

This is how supply-demand works, if you feel they are price-gouging or overcharging, go with the next best option. If there is no other option, it is the government to be blamed - we pay them taxes to provide us services, which they are not providing us. Why do we expect no accountability from them?

Last edited by phoenixash : 31st May 2016 at 16:25. Reason: Grammar
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