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Old 1st August 2016, 13:48   #16
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Default re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
This is as good as blaming the rape victim cos she was wearing 'revealing' clothes. People have the right to go anywhere at whatever time they please. Doesn't mean they deserved to be raped for that.

Blame the victim for anything - I absolutely detest this attitude - this is the reason India is still in the dark ages .
I don't think the OP meant to paint the victim as the problem. He merely stated that it wasn't the best idea to check the car after the hit at that point of time. And in honesty, if someone does not smell anything fishy, then it is probably the natural thing to do. And yes as you say, people have the right to travel at whatever time they wish to - they don't deserve the atrocities meted out to them.

However, when one is traveling with women and children, you cannot let your guard down. I for one strictly avoid traveling at night when I have my family with me. Even during the day, I choose the roads which are widely used by others rather than one which is empty or near empty. Call me medieval or anything but nothing matters more than the security of my family.

Finally, I hope the perpetrators of this heinous crime be found and sent to the gallows as soon as possible. I also hope the victims find courage to overcome this tragedy.

This also highlights the pathetic state of affairs on our roads. I am not the best person to comment on the state of affairs in UP, but I have lived in a state ruled by similar parties and similar people (erstwhile Bihar - 20 years) - and my parents would simply would not travel at night. In fact once when I had an exam and was traveling alone to Patna (from Ranchi) in a Bus, someone hit it with a brick and shattered the windscreen, but the driver did not stop. I did not understand it at that point of time but it dawned upon me later that you never stop in such circumstances.

P.S: Please do not stop at night except at brightly lit places, no matter what. And sorry for the rather long post.
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Old 1st August 2016, 14:22   #17
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Default re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

It quite sad for the victims and my sympathies with them. However, I am not surprised, which itself shows state of lawlessness in UP.

No one is blaming the victim (as mentioned in some posts before), all we are saying is there was lapse in judgement on part of driver.
First, starting in middle of night from Delhi to UP with family, not many would dare to do this. Now that you are doing it, at least be aware about the situation and criminal activities en route. He should not have stopped after car was hit by rod/brick.

It's quite easy to say that there should be better law and order situation, driver was doing what anyone would do as natural reaction. However, you just can't let your guards down, when in UP, at any point of time. This is not to tarnish the image of whole state, just to safeguard your own/family's safety.

Last edited by Acharya : 1st August 2016 at 14:34.
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Old 1st August 2016, 14:40   #18
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Default re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

Some Roads in U.P are still notorious for robberies. It is best to stick to the N.H rather than taking the S.H.
Hapur-Bulandsheher has been a very infamous route and we have always been advised to avoid it after dark or move in a convoy.
Similar is the case with the Canal Road that goes from Muradnagar to Roorkee. It's dangerous at all times of the day.

It's hard to imagine now but not long ago, the stretch from Modinagar to Muzaffarnagar was equally bad. The Police had checkposts and they used to stop everyone and then let them all move in a convoy to avoid robberies on the road.

Not just in U.P but I wouldn't recommend traveling long distances in any part at night. And Yes, if you do travel, Never stop for anything on a desolate stretch. If it's an emergency then also look for a well lit residential area or a petrol pump and never hesitate to ask for help from locals.

P.S- I am from Meerut and have driven around Western U.P extensively.
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Old 1st August 2016, 15:49   #19
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Default Woman and minor raped, robbed on Delhi-Kanpur National Highway 91

As this thread is about dangerous roads and highways there is one such road I have heard about which I would like to share. I have been informed by many friends and relatives that in tribal areas of Bhilwara in Rajasthan (My home state), the road is not only dangerous at night it is equally dangerous during daytimes like late afternoons. The modus operandi is throwing stone or shooting poison laced arrows and breaking the windshield. One can even google it. So no matter the emergency one is strictly advised not to stop the vehicle.

OT : Even in the US which is the world's most safest country it is advised not to travel on certain roads due to various reasons one can safely say it's impossible to police everything.

Last edited by carwatcher : 1st August 2016 at 15:52.
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Old 1st August 2016, 16:25   #20
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

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Originally Posted by GeneralJazz View Post
This is plain old fashioned foolishness. Driving at night with family/women on board, you just dont stop no matter what.
Honestly, with poor policing and awful law & order, it's not advisable to drive on the highway at night at all...whether you're with women or not. The lawlessness on Indian Highways - especially at night - simply isn't worth it. Our article on night driving tips actually starts off with this sentence:

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Let me start this article off by saying, if you have a choice, always pick daytime driving over the night. There isn't a doubt that travelling during the day is a far safer option, especially in India.
I love driving on highways at night - the cool breeze, empty roads and feeling of isolation provide their own kick, but I don't unless it's an emergency.

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Originally Posted by TD_GHY View Post
Exactly. People can call me stupid too, but I too would've stopped the car to check if everything was alright if hit by something.
Whatever others say, a majority of drivers would stop. Never know what hit your car and in that state of panic, the most natural reaction would be to pull over.
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Old 1st August 2016, 18:05   #21
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

As a person who visits India not so often and with whatever vacation time that's available , I tend to drive during night times with family. Even though I rarely venture out of the southern states, this episode and others have really made me think and re-think on driving on Indian roads during dusk / night times. Just yesterday I returned back from Mysore to Bangalore late evening and was really nervous after having read this news report, its just not these bandits/ robbers etc that is scary , but the total absence of any policing at all over the entire stretch of highway that really gets me worried.
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Old 1st August 2016, 19:01   #22
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

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Originally Posted by mazda4life View Post
As a person who visits India not so often and with whatever vacation time that's available , I tend to drive during night times with family. Even though I rarely venture out of the southern states, this episode and others have really made me think and re-think on driving on Indian roads during dusk / night times.
I do not have any statistics to prove my point, and as such I may be wrong, but I believe that southern states and highways are comparatively much more safer than North India, specifically the regions we are talking about. I have travelled in South India, and I find night drives to be absolutely safe.
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Old 1st August 2016, 19:25   #23
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We all know about that as Dacoits, etc is a well known phenomenon in North compared to South but of course during elections paid media also is on the job like they did before Bihar elections else how can one explain police changing their list of criminals.
We should be mature enough to look beyond this and should not get carried away.
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Old 1st August 2016, 20:20   #24
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

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Originally Posted by TD_GHY View Post
Exactly. People can call me stupid too, but I too would've stopped the car to check if everything was alright if hit by something. Oil sump, tires etc. It has just become a fashion nowadays to pass on comments from the comfort of one's chair or bed through the laptop or cell without trying to get a realistic picture of the situation they were in.
Exactly. The same people would not take 2 minutes to you stupid if you hadn't stopped and had actually suffered a genuine underbody hit and had broken some crucial part. I particularly remember 1 thread where a polo suffered massive damage and repair bills as the owner didn't apparently stop in time after a hit and everyone chided him for the same.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...vw-bhopal.html (Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal)
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Old 2nd August 2016, 13:58   #25
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
This is as good as blaming the rape victim cos she was wearing 'revealing' clothes. People have the right to go anywhere at whatever time they please. Doesn't mean they deserved to be raped for that.

Blame the victim for anything - I absolutely detest this attitude - this is the reason India is still in the dark ages .
Did I mention anywhere in the post about the woman wearing 'revealing' clothes or that she asked for it? There was a serious lapse of judgement on the part of the driver. He shouldn't have stopped at night, with women on board, period.

Of course people have a right to go anywhere they want, I don't seem to recall every saying otherwise. You can go wherever you want, whenever you want. But considering the pathetic state of law and order in our country, there are some precautions you just need to take. If you think otherwise, to each his own.

Blame the victim for everything? 'Revealing' clothes? Did I say a single word about the women on board? I only mentioned the error made by the driver. The lives of the passengers are literally in the hands of the driver. He is responsible for their safety.

You are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post

reignofchaos has put into words what I wish to say. Someone's innocence (getting down to check damage) *cannot* be used as an excuse to not put the entire blame on those who committed the crime.

I don't intend to single you out but I'm sure there are many, both on and off the forum, who would have thought the same way: the guy is stupid to have stopped the vehicle.

Also, let's be honest: it's only because now we know of this modus operandi (throwing something or saying the car has a flat and then looting) that we can be smart in expecting something fishy. Otherwise, it is a very natural response to stop your car when hit.


Thank you for putting it the way you did.
Did I ever mention that the driver is completely responsible for this tragedy? Read the post again. This modus operandi is not new. There have been plenty of cases before this. I know it is a very natural response, but do we give priority to the condition of the car over the safety of women on board? Of course you can argue that the car would have stopped if something indeed had happened to it. In that case would the end result have been different?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TD_GHY View Post
It has just become a fashion nowadays to pass on comments from the comfort of one's chair or bed through the laptop or cell without trying to get a realistic picture of the situation they were in.
This is plain argumentative and insulting. I have been in this situation before. A bunch of people had jumped onto the road and tried to block our way in the Bandipur forest road on the way to Mysore. They even threw a branch at our car. I blared the horns and sped up; damn nearly run one of them over.

So please dont insult people without knowing anything about them.

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Originally Posted by Anand123 View Post
I agree that it's quite natural to react the way you mentioned but I dont think this is the first time such an incident is happening in our country. Atleast now we know that such incidents do happen and will still continue to. So we need to be vigilant especially while travelling with family. No point in 'blaming' the driver here but how I wish if he could have been a little more careful and not stopped the car there. Hope the culprits gets what they deserve.
Very true. We need to be vigilant always.

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
At around 9:00 PM after crossing Mathura, a brick came flying and hit my windscreen (luckily just below the wiper blade) and punched a hole in it. I was driving at 100km/h and decided not to stop there. My parents later told me that this is a regular trick adopted by robbers to loot the travelers.
That decision probably saved you and your family.

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Originally Posted by TheDesertRat View Post
I don't anticipate this to happen every single time but better safe than sorry. Sadly, UP has a notorious reputation and it is down to us to ensure our and our family's safety (this speaks very highly of a competent government and law enforcement agencies).
Not just UP mate, there's been plenty of cases from all over the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adi_gt View Post
I You never know, why you want to take a risk of this nature. The best option should be to start early at 5am but not during winters.
Its common sense. We can argue endlessly about having a right to do whatever we want, but it's our duty to be vigilant. We can't expect the police to do everything, not here in India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post
I don't think the OP meant to paint the victim as the problem. He merely stated that it wasn't the best idea to check the car after the hit at that point of time.

However, when one is traveling with women and children, you cannot let your guard down. I for one strictly avoid traveling at night when I have my family with me. Even during the day, I choose the roads which are widely used by others rather than one which is empty or near empty. Call me medieval or anything but nothing matters more than the security of my family.
Safety of my family is more important that my car. And I stand by that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acharya View Post

No one is blaming the victim (as mentioned in some posts before), all we are saying is there was lapse in judgement on part of driver.
First, starting in middle of night from Delhi to UP with family, not many would dare to do this. Now that you are doing it, at least be aware about the situation and criminal activities en route. He should not have stopped after car was hit by rod/brick.

It's quite easy to say that there should be better law and order situation, driver was doing what anyone would do as natural reaction. However, you just can't let your guards down, when in UP, at any point of time. This is not to tarnish the image of whole state, just to safeguard your own/family's safety.
Exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajitsingh208 View Post
And Yes, if you do travel, Never stop for anything on a desolate stretch. If it's an emergency then also look for a well lit residential area or a petrol pump and never hesitate to ask for help from locals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
OT : Even in the US which is the world's most safest country it is advised not to travel on certain roads due to various reasons one can safely say it's impossible to police everything.
This is true everywhere. Even if we do have to travel these roads, our safety is our responsibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Honestly, with poor policing and awful law & order, it's not advisable to drive on the highway at night at all...whether you're with women or not. The lawlessness on Indian Highways - especially at night - simply isn't worth it. Our article on night driving tips actually starts off with this sentence:



I love driving on highways at night - the cool breeze, empty roads and feeling of isolation provide their own kick, but I don't unless it's an emergency.



Whatever others say, a majority of drivers would stop. Never know what hit your car and in that state of panic, the most natural reaction would be to pull over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Exactly. The same people would not take 2 minutes to you stupid if you hadn't stopped and had actually suffered a genuine underbody hit and had broken some crucial part. I particularly remember 1 thread where a polo suffered massive damage and repair bills as the owner didn't apparently stop in time after a hit and everyone chided him for the same.
Repair bills vs. safety of family? Choice is obvious.

Look, I dont mean to offend anyone, but our safety is in our own hands. We have to be vigilant. We have to think. We need to be smart.

I wont argue on this anymore, because anymore talk on whos right and whos wrong is off topic.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 15:19   #26
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

I am in agreement with what GTO says.! Avoid night driving, be it cities or highways. That being said, how many of us here would not have stopped when an object hits out car? It's natural human tendency and it really takes good conditioning and experience to overcome our reflexes. We can't blame the driver per se, but it would have been better if he would have carried on. The thing is if there would have been damage to the car, it would have stalled/stopped somewhere else. Hence really confused as to what will be the right move in this type of situation.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 16:27   #27
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

This is what the local Govt. has stooped down to:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/53502084.cms

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"To get power politicians can get down to any level, they can murder people, trigger riots, kill innocent people, so the truth has to be found out" he added.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 16:30   #28
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
This is what the local Govt. has stooped down to:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/53502084.cms
The fool is probably too much of an ignoramus to see that quote befits him as much as anyone else he's alluding to. Shocking, in the sense how far humanity has fallen. As to someone would actually say something like that, not shocking at all anymore, unfortunately.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 17:27   #29
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
This is what the local Govt. has stooped down to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Shocking, in the sense how far humanity has fallen.
I am angry not shocked. These people have scant respect for anything but themselves. Just to put things in perspective, this is the same joker who went after the state police after his buffaloes went missing.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/azam-...unished-549621

The less said about the politicians the better really. Sometimes I feel we should let the common citizen carry weapons much more freely but that opens another can of worms and this isn't that kind of a forum for such a discussion. The bad guys already carry weapons, who will be responsible for our safety? The Police?

I mean what do I do with justice when I am dead?

This is such a sorry state of affairs in our country where political parties and news-persons are perfectly fine with romanticizing terrorists who kill Indians without mercy but have little to no respect for ordinary women and citizens simply because it does not have any glamour.

What does that mean for us, the mango people of this country? What do we do? How do we keep our family safe specially on roads? On one hand, once you start living in fear, you have already lost your freedom; on the other, what about safety of your near and dear ones?

As far I am concerned, I am perfectly fine to be called as a medieval but I try to cut as much risks as possible, which includes not driving at night (which I enjoy a lot, alone) understanding the routes before hand, condition of road etc. I truly wish to see a time in my lifetime when people in our country can live without fear of being hurt.

Sorry for the rather long rant and I have probably gone OT but my blood boils when I put myself in the victim's shoes.

Last edited by pratyush6 : 2nd August 2016 at 17:34.
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Old 2nd August 2016, 17:52   #30
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Default Re: Woman and minor raped, robbed on the Delhi-Kanpur National Highway

Felt very sad for the family which went through this trauma ! I feel atleast the law should be changed for these kind of activities like the middle east countries. Hang them to death or shoot em.. harder punishments,lesser crimes
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