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Old 5th August 2016, 00:55   #46
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

I agree that stopping distance should be within visible distance, but one is normally looking for something, rather than nothing. I think it quite possible that, if nothing suddenly opens up in front of us, even at safe speeds at which we would not hit a vehicle, person, or even a dog, we'd quite likely drive straight into it. Also, this is not just the usual Thinking-plus-braking stopping distance, this is comprehending the impossible. Even if we see the car ahead of us apparently disappear.

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Originally Posted by silverado
That bridge may not have street lights
I've been wondering about that. If not lit, then the above but even more so. Was the bridge lit? Anybody know?
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Old 5th August 2016, 07:00   #47
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Our PWD and others are a bunch of lazy so and so's.

In most places in India we still live on the legacy created by earlier powers, like the Brits or others.

Take a good look at our Railways. Except the Konkan Rail, every other railway line has been laid by the Brits. Consider how many little bridges of their era, there are in India.

Add the road bridges and Im sure one can't keep count.

Our people will keep using something and misusing it too, until it breaks. There is no concept of preventive maintenance at all.

In any of our cities today, all the infrastructure that still works is more than 100-150 years old.

All the new stuff simply doesn't work.

Basically, we are a nation of "Jugaad" and "Short-cut" Kings.

Absolutely no long term vision.

Live from Election to Election - or from Term to Term.

And to Hell with the consequences, loss of life et al.

This is India.
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Old 5th August 2016, 14:21   #48
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

While there are some disturbing images of accident caught basses in this news making rounds on local WhatsApp groups, Mumbai Mirror Reports this - http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mumbai/o...w/53550765.cms If one has to believe the whatsapp - two buses are found and some bodies.

Quoting one paragraph of news -
Quote:
The 13 bodies were discovered at different locations along the swollen Savitri River. One was found nearly 100 km from the accident site, a fact that highlights the massive challenge facing the joint search team of the National Disaster Response Force (NDRF), Navy, Coast Guard and local volunteers.
And another news about how they are dealing with croc scare - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/53548262.cms

Last edited by abirnale : 5th August 2016 at 14:25.
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Old 5th August 2016, 14:37   #49
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Call me cynical, but we have all seen too many adults saunter off across the road dragging kids of impressionable age on the pretext of crossing a road without even a remote thought about safety or discipline or leading by example. To me that is basic and clearly highlights the rot in our society - absolute disdain for safety and discipline (following rules come much later).
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Old 5th August 2016, 17:23   #50
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Well it has been almost 3 days since the tragedy and still no signs of the buses or other vehicles. The body count keeps climbing since no one knows exactly how many vehicles / people went down that night.

There is absolutely no information regarding -

1. When did the bridge collapse ?
2. How many vehicles went down and got washed away when it collapsed ?
3. How many vehicles went down before the mechanic and his friends could close the road ?
4. Since traffic was on both the bridges, how is it that no one travelling in the opposite direction observed that the other lane bridge has disappeared and tried stopping vehicles approaching the bridge ?

I think the body count will rise more once the vehicles are found since the unfortunate souls would have had no time to get out of their vehicles. The media glare has also come down and more and more news channels have now shifted to following the Olympics.
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Old 5th August 2016, 17:51   #51
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvDriving View Post
...
There is absolutely no information regarding -

1. When did the bridge collapse ?
2. How many vehicles went down and got washed away when it collapsed ?
3. How many vehicles went down before the mechanic and his friends could close the road ?
4. Since traffic was on both the bridges, how is it that no one travelling in the opposite direction observed that the other lane bridge has disappeared and tried stopping vehicles approaching the bridge ?
...
As per statement issued by the CM today:
1. The bridge collapsed some time between 11-11:30pm
2. Two ST buses and 2 cars (Tavera carrying 7 and a Honda City carrying 4). Official headcount is 42.

3. No other vehicles seem to be involved.
4. A lot of places on this route have a old bridge and a new bridge side by side. At many of these places, the old bridge is at a lower height than the new bridge. The high railing also obstructs view. This is a unlit highway, so quite easy to miss anything which is not in your headlight throw.

Last edited by SDP : 5th August 2016 at 18:13.
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Old 5th August 2016, 18:36   #52
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
. On a bright sunny day, no chance this would've happened.
Sir, imHo, on a bright sunny day, the bridge would itself have stayed intact.

This case is a classic example of Murphy's Law [at its best] for the worst !

Heavy Rain[ a 10 year high], Midnight , Unlit Old Bridge, Ferociously Flowing River with Crocs - How much can it further possibly go wrong ?

Remove any one thing out of it, the incident would not have been as disastrous as it is now !

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvDriving View Post
There is absolutely no information regarding -

1. When did the bridge collapse ?
2. How many vehicles went down and got washed away when it collapsed ?
3. How many vehicles went down before the mechanic and his friends could close the road ?

.
That is the utter irony of the situation.

There's not even a single reliable [ and authentic] source of information and we might not even know for sure about how many vehicles/persons were involved for the time being .

Probably, this must have been under way now !

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvDriving View Post
4. Since traffic was on both the bridges, how is it that no one travelling in the opposite direction observed that the other lane bridge has disappeared and tried stopping vehicles approaching the bridge ?
.
Blame it on the Darkness of the Night & Lashing Rain !

I , as a driver, would only be focussed on crossing a bridge on a heavily pouring dark night and care little for the other bridge until and unless I am pretty sure of something perilous had happened !

Last edited by poised2drive : 5th August 2016 at 18:48.
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Old 5th August 2016, 18:44   #53
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Quote:
Originally Posted by poised2drive View Post

There's not even a single reliable [ and authentic] source of information and we might not even ever know for sure about how many vehicles/persons were involved.
Yes, there is no authentic source informing the number of vehicles. But I think that the present estimate of the drowned vehicles is correct. Because, if any more vehicles would have washed away, they would have been reported missing by their families.
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Old 5th August 2016, 19:00   #54
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Quote:
Originally Posted by poised2drive View Post
Being a Civil Engineer [ and a PWD Official], I'd try to add a bit.




In addition to the above, the bridge collapsed was a masonry structure, which can easily sustain a century [ given if it is properly maintained], but the most perilous problem for any masonry structure [ be it a bridge or dam] is the Water and the most common cause of the collapse of bridges is the Scouring of the Foundation [ and it seems to be the case from the pics]

The gushing water could have removed the materials from the foundation due to the increased turbulence and it becomes almost impossible to detect it during the flooding seasons.

Many underappreciate the cumulative action of water. Water enters the bridge, no matter how exceptional the workmanship of the masonry may be.

As it is said, nature will find its way.

Engineers can only recognize the spots where the water erodes/saturates the building materials -mortar and rectify them by grouting but only to an extent. Nevertheless, The water will gradually weaken the structure by finding a way through.
Further, the wind erodes the materials and exacerbate the situation.

Are the NHAI officials at fault ? Or is it a case of unprecedented nature fury ?

It could only be known after the report of the inquiry.
With the above background and the known fact that the "last-mile" quality of work during maintenance, be it electrical or civil, etc - is extremely poor, I think it is preferable to de-commission such structures after its useful life (audited) , especially when the new one is in place. I have seen that in-spite if using high-quality materials, the workmanship in many cases is so poor that there are bound to be failures. Typically, there is low or no supervision during maintenance type of activities.

Very sad to see so many lives lost and families bereaved.
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Old 5th August 2016, 22:46   #55
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Angry re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
For a fact, this is a section where 4 lane work is complete as it looks like from the maps, Arial Video Grabs etc.

This is something really normal in our country where expansion to dual carriageway means retain the old bridge for one way traffic and build another one for the other direction.

This "Trend" of retaining older & weaker bridges should really stop now. Technology has advanced and we can build better bridges to save lives.
I think from google earth images taken in Jan 2015 that stretch is still 2 lane. An additional bridge was built to augment the old bridge this making only the bridge section a dual carriageway.

But otherwise your observations are spot on . Often the old bridge is retained when the highway is expanded to dual carriageway. This is a classic case of cutting corners which we see repeatedly throughout the country. Our officials and public often have no concept of what good infrastructure should be. The officials want to cut cost and make a quick buck while the public doesn't want to pay taxes or toll. This feeds into each other and leads to disasters like the Mahad bridge collapse.
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Old 6th August 2016, 01:42   #56
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

While it is a broad (and incorrect) generalization to call everyone in PWDs incompetent, it's no practical use having brilliant minds on field jobs if the babus signing off on projects are numpties.

People across organizations around the world - government or otherwise - ultimately do what they're asked to do by the guy(s) signing their paychecks, not necessarily what they believe is the right thing.

It only takes small shortcuts at a time - potentially insignificant in themselves - to add up to something like this eventually. I haven't seen a single news item where culpability of anyone responsible for maintaining the bridge is even being discussed. So we just chalk this off to a natural calamity and move on?
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Old 6th August 2016, 03:32   #57
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

I've probably missed the information in previous posts, and, these days, the BBC is not the best source of information especially for India, but... When I've been reading colonial-era, I've been thinking it's well over a hundred years old: it is not, it was built in 1940. It is only 12 years older than I am!

Is it so? It seems hardly any age at all for such a structure, assuming it had been maintained.
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Old 6th August 2016, 18:06   #58
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
As per statement issued by the CM today:
4. A lot of places on this route have a old bridge and a new bridge side by side. At many of these places, the old bridge is at a lower height than the new bridge. The high railing also obstructs view. This is a unlit highway, so quite easy to miss anything which is not in your headlight throw.
Hi. This one seems another media error, as there aren't many twin bridges on NH17 ( now NH66) between Bombay and Goa. One was this at Mahad, next on Sawantwadi bypass and may be one somewhere on the Pen-Bombay stretch ( as part of new construction ). It could be that CM was pointing to other twin bridges elsewhere in the state or elsewhere in Sahyadris/Konkan on the arterial roads of NH17, but surely not on NH17 proper. There are a couple of single bridges though on NH17 and all of them are not lit. I think Goa is the only state where I remember seeing street lamps on the bridges over NH17, not even in the further part of Karnataka. Not sure of the later part in Kerala.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth indian View Post
I think from google earth images taken in Jan 2015 that stretch is still 2 lane. An additional bridge was built to augment the old bridge this making only the bridge section a dual carriageway.

.
As I mentioned earlier in my first post on this thread, this particular section between Poladpur and Mahad has 2 short stretches of 4 laners one which included this twin bridge and the bridge has been so that way since last 4 years or so. In 2015 it was surely a twin bridge. I vaguely remember there is even a closed toll booth just before this bridge. 4 laning as such has not even begun in the Mahad area. They are stuck with Bombay--Indapur stretch since ages.
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Old 6th August 2016, 18:20   #59
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivek95 View Post
Hi. This one seems another media error, as there aren't many twin bridges on NH17 ( now NH66) between Bombay and Goa. One was this at Mahad, next on Sawantwadi bypass and may be one somewhere on the Pen-Bombay stretch ( as part of new construction ). It could be that CM was pointing to other twin bridges elsewhere in the state or elsewhere in Sahyadris/Konkan on the arterial roads of NH17, but surely not on NH17 proper. ...
I do Mumbai-Ratnagiri a few times in a year and definitely remember multiple twin-bridges (old + new combination) on this stretch. There are also quite a few places where there's just a old bridge, no new bridge. So the govt doesn't even have an option to close those today. As per a news item, there are 36 bridges from British era in Maharashtra. Don't recollect if the 36 number was for entire state or just NH17/NH66, but I am pretty sure a big chunk is on NH17/NH66.
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Old 6th August 2016, 19:39   #60
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Default re: Bridge collapses on Mumbai-Goa highway! 2 ST buses washed away *EDIT: To be reopened June 5*

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
I do Mumbai-Ratnagiri a few times in a year and definitely remember multiple twin-bridges (old + new combination) on this stretch. There are also quite a few places where there's just a old bridge, no new bridge. So the govt doesn't even have an option to close those today. As per a news item, there are 36 bridges from British era in Maharashtra. Don't recollect if the 36 number was for entire state or just NH17/NH66, but I am pretty sure a big chunk is on NH17/NH66.
I stand corrected in that case. My frequency on NH17 is very less and it was only 3 times last year, but only once on the whole stretch between Goa and Bombay. Other two were in bits i.e between Goa-Ganpatipule and Chiplun- Bombay. As far my memory serves, other bridges I noticed were still under construction ( parallel to old ones ) and not open for traffic yet, if they are all done up by now, that's good to know. And precisely the figure 36 that I have been hearing/reading on news prompted to write that last post. Thanks for the info and thanks for correcting me
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