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Old 18th August 2016, 15:32   #61
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Originally Posted by AppyS View Post
Now to call the parents criminal for allowing the kid to get out of the sunroof is a bit too harsh I feel. If that is so then the people who sell and buy cars with sunroofs are criminal as well given the prevalence of kite flying as a sport in India.
Mate, You got it totally wrong and missed reading the above posts. Nobody is blaming kite flying. But Kite flying with Manjha is dangerous. There are other safe alternatives available.
Whether Kite flying is present or not it's totally unsafe to have a kid peeping out of the sunroof when the vehicle is moving. Blaming the car manufactuers for providing sunroofs is baseless. If that's the case providing a car itself isn't safe considering road manners
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Old 18th August 2016, 16:03   #62
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

While banning is not a solution to this nuisance, why have they not enforced the kite flying with regulations? This is not the first time a person has got injured by the kite. Few days there will be big hullabaloo and then it dies. Isn't there any organization which can take up the matter to judiciary and make this hobby safe for public? Being a father to a small kid, it pains me to no end to hear this tragedy. Will share this thread to my better half, so that she realizes the reason for my stubbornness when it comes to safety of kids. While you can't shield your kids from all dangers, as GTO said it's always better to be extra cautious and unflinching when kids try to sweet talk you.
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Old 18th August 2016, 16:08   #63
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Originally Posted by ssateesh View Post
Mate, You got it totally wrong and missed reading the above posts. Nobody is blaming kite flying. But Kite flying with Manjha is dangerous. There are other safe alternatives available.
Whether Kite flying is present or not it's totally unsafe to have a kid peeping out of the sunroof when the vehicle is moving. Blaming the car manufactuers for providing sunroofs is baseless. If that's the case providing a car itself isn't safe considering road manners
Hello Sateesh, probably you got my views wrong or maybe I did not put them correctly enough. I didn't miss anything either, it just hurts me to imagine the pain those parents are going through. I agree that probably the kids must not be peeping out esp when the car is accelerating or on a high speed as it leaves them prone to injuries by numerous other options apart from kites. As for manjha it should be banned 100% but I feel even the normal kite thread can cause substantial damage if zipping along one's skin in a windy day. I have had my fair share of paper cuts and thread scrapes but again I don't want to sound paranoid. I feel manjha/kite threads are a genuine safety concern to evaluate against, and thats just my opinion.

Last edited by AppyS : 18th August 2016 at 16:11.
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Old 18th August 2016, 16:42   #64
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
But as a regular citizen of this country, it's easier for me to control what's happening inside my car than outside of it. I know all the 3,000 car owners who've viewed this thread will never let their kid stand out of the sunroof for sure.
Echoing GTO's thoughts...
With so much debate around sunroofs, manjha, kite flying, etc. I feel the bottom line is that certain common-sense ground rules ought to be understood and appreciated by everyone. I know many of us on team-bhp have already mentioned these in some way or the other, but let me just call them out again.
  • Sunroofs are meant to be used and enjoyed as sun roofs only. Period. Quite similar to the way we don’t use windows in our cars to get in or out of the vehicle. I also don't see people sticking their heads out of the windows as much. People need to understand the perils involved in abusing sunroofs.
  • All vehicle occupants need to be belted up and seated when the car is in motion. I know it is a pain to get passengers in the back seat to understand this very simple rule. I end up trying to enforce it in my car, but somehow, it doesn’t seem to come naturally or out of habit.
  • Roads are a dangerous place to be as is, those on bikes are particularly at a greater risk than those on four wheels. They ought to take measures to protect themselves. Biking gear (helmet, jackets, knee guard, elbow guard, et all). I like the indigenous ways in which bikers from Gujarat have come up with contraptions that are not pretty looking but definitely functional. Thank you, moderator Gannu_1 for sharing those pics from GJ.
  • Thankfully, kite flying is not a regular sport in our country – it is played only during certain festivals and seasons. At the very least, wear a cotton muffler or some extra layer of clothing around your neck, so you have some protection at least. Especially, take special care to protect yourself during those kite flying times.

I know there’s a lot of fire against Chinese manjha. I support everyone who is against it, but let's not forget the regular manjha or even a simple thread can do significant harm (if not slit people's throats). While we cannot (and should not) stop people from flying kites, what we can do is take these simple measures to protect ourselves. These are things that are within our control.

For those who think otherwise, “everything might be permissible, but not all things are beneficial.”

I'm sorry for a longish post that might even come across as preachy. But seeing the picture of an innocent child's blood has actually disturbed me a lot.

Please take care!
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Old 18th August 2016, 16:45   #65
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

I am pained to read this news and am scared to imagine how things might have happened in the actual scenario. These kids did not deserve this kind of end; and for no fault of theirs. Safety in our country; be it any regards; is generally somewhere at the bottom of our lists in my opinion. The parents allowing their kids, or rather anyone allowing someone to stick their heads out of the sunroof shows their seriousness or awareness to the safety of their loved ones. Mind you, I am not preaching safety as if I am a 100% disciple of the same; but I practice more now than what I use to a few years back and am in constant mode of improvement, every chance I get. I sincerely hope that the general attitude towards safety in our country changes for good and incidents like these can be avoided at least.
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Old 18th August 2016, 16:50   #66
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

The parents should be blamed as well IMO. Every time I see such children or adults sticking their head out of the sunroof I get so pissed. What are these people thinking ? One sudden / panic braking and they will be flung out of the car. And to add to that I have noticed that the cars are 99% of the time at a considerable speed.

Manja is only one of the reasons. If if there was no manjha but a normal string it can cause equal damage, or it can get into your eyes and permanently blind you.

Yes it is very saddening for the parents however I definitely feel the parents should be booked as well for negligence. Sunroofs are not for sticking your head out.
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Old 18th August 2016, 17:03   #67
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Default

I wanted to add 1-2 lines to my previous post but decided against it but here it is.
How would one feel better is the interplay of various factors like moral values taught, struggles, upbringing, etc.
Glaring case of a celebrated film star who seem to have No conscience whatever after killing humans as well as animals.
One thing also I have understood from whatever little I have read and experienced that it's the tendency of parents to blame themselves throughout their lives for whatever bad happens in their children lives even if the 'children' are grown up adults.
At the same time it is entirely personal matter if one allows him to be made vulnerable by others by blame or not.
Hope I am able to clarify.
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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
The only thing that could've definitely kept that child alive in this instance was the parents disallowing a dangerous indulgence called the sunroof (how ironic that something built to let light in snuffed the life out of an innocent), and no amount of denial can change that fact.

Everything else, as I said, is a case of hypothetical 'if only'.
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Old 18th August 2016, 17:11   #68
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
I wanted to add 1-2 lines to my previous post but decided against it but here it is.
How would one feel better is the interplay of various factors like moral values taught, struggles, upbringing, etc.
Glaring case of a celebrated film star who seem to have No conscience whatever after killing humans as well as animals.
One thing also I have understood from whatever little I have read and experienced that it's the tendency of parents to blame themselves throughout their lives for whatever bad happens in their children lives even if the 'children' are grown up adults.
At the same time it is entirely personal matter if one allows him to be made vulnerable by others by blame or not.
Hope I am able to clarify.
I believe I don't disagree with you in principle, but I guess our individual perspectives on taking responsibility (or the form it takes) is different, which is absolutely fine and not a matter of debate at all.

I also wouldn't want to discuss the case you mention, one because it's off-topic here and two I don't believe public appearances have anything to do with one's conscience. People always know what they've done, whether they admit it publicly or not (for various reasons).
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Old 18th August 2016, 18:55   #69
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

Tragic incident. I don't want to seem insensitive by indulging in some finger pointing here, but the family was insensitive.

Even is Manhja isn't the threat (might be the case in most areas in Bangalore), the idea of peeping out of the sunroof in any car is a terrible one. The perimeter of the sunroof isn't very soft (and not meant to be) and when the driver applies the brake suddenly(we have a lot of idiots), the collision is going to cause severe injury. Broken ribs aren't ruled out.
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Old 18th August 2016, 19:39   #70
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

One of the rarest of freak accidents from the recent past and an instance that none of can ignore as a one off case!

If not the manjha, it could even be a flying object from another vehicle or a bird flying low - These too are enough to kill you at good speeds.

Incidentally, I have no hesitation to admit that during our recent drive in a group comprising 6 cars, even the adult occupants had their share of popping their head out from the Sunroof of the Skoda Laura for a minute or two. Reading about this incident, I realized the possibilities of not just a Manjha but anything else that can be life threatening.

As I always say I will continue to learn each day, the Sunroof accident here on this post has laid in front of me a different perspective too. This accident is not just about the Sunroof and the Manjha but an incident that should remind the parents about the safety aspects of the occupants, more importantly kids when you are at the wheel.

As a father of a 6 year old daughter, It pains even more to see a kid die right inside the car, instantly in a pool of blood! I always tell this to my friends and folks around that after you start bringing up your kids, your thoughts about the safety of other kids on the road also increase a lot that you only were aware then but more careful today.

Riding kids on a 2 wheeler:

Unfortunate but true that I feel low to see kids on 2 wheelers & their parents riding around rashly without a single regard for safety. I slow down and pass 2 wheelers with kids from a distance than take any risk – I am paranoid that the kid standing/sitting in front will indulge in something that might make the rider lose his balance or get into my lane. I shared this article to my wife as soon as I read to let her know how an accident can happen that you may have never thought about it. More than the education about such accidents, I prefer to have that fear in me and the folks in my car that risks are not worth it. Education will keep you informed but the fear will remind you more and make you drive sensibly and practice safety.

This accident posted by bhpian 2500cc here is also another grave reminder – http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post4021926 (Pics: Accidents in India).

2 wheelers and Kids is certainly not the best combination. More than fall and the fact that your body is totally exposed to external elements, my biggest fear is getting run over by a bus/truck after you fall down. It need not be a high speed fall, you can avoid a pothole or brake suddenly and that big truck can knock you down and run over you, instantly! I showed that video to my daughter and told her why exactly I don’t allow her to ride on a 2 wheeler.

Bucking up:

When it comes to buckling up too, I had posted how unsafe it is to make your kid either stand or sit in the front seat, without belts. I had posted this accident where a daughter of friend knocked her head and cracked the windscreen in the duster only because the driver braked hard. She was lucky to have suffered no major injuries (Internal or external) due to this. Here is that incident: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post3911682 (Pics: Accidents in India)

With my daughter on the booster seat and belted, I have braked hard deliberately to make her realise that how buckling up kept her right there on the seat and she acknowledges this. Again, my worst fear is that if she isn’t belted is if for some reason I have to brake hard at highway speeds, she will get thrown right next to me on the dashboard. Hence, no standing inside the car whatsoever.

Opening and closing the doors

Always from the left side & it is not just the location where you parked, more important is the fact that once kids are seated, their hands should not be on the door frame or the door itself when you close. I always tell my daughter to keep both her hands together as I close the door. The last thing you want is a broken finger bone.

Your own driving habits

Abrupt moments – Braking, Accelerating, Gear shifts – With kids on board, the last thing you want is pass the jolts to them. So specific that my daughter instantly thinks I am driving fast even if there is a noticeable push due to the turbo kick. Like I always try to, drive a manual car as if it’s an automatic that the gearshifts, acceleration & engine braking are never felt inside.

No Rolling down and driving

There hasn’t been a single instance where my kid has ever bothered to touch the power window switch to roll down that window. Only in ghats, I roll it down by 3 inches for some fresh Air and avoid motion sickness for her

Walking on road – Face the traffic, let the elder stay on your left

Crossing the road - Never run to cross the road, examples of how fast anyone can approach you or how badly they can fail to brake in time and crash on you is to be explained to the kids too. Of course assessing traffic from both sides before attempting to cross is a basic rule that needs no mention

Leaving kids inside the car alone-

Not even a minute please. Remember when you lose sight, there can be any hooligan who can smash that window and steal just anything (and take your kid too). I also fear somehow they can release that handbrake out of curiosity even after being warned & fiddle with that gear stick. Not to forget those deaths of kids inside the locked car due to lack of oxygen.
Educate them-

Educate your kid, constantly, nothing works better than this – Explain about how accidents can happen, show some videos (Less gory of course). I recall a non-stop drive to Ahmedabad from Bangalore when we got stuck for 40 mins at Nalasorapara after Mumbai. It was dusk and my daughter had slept well, watched couple of movies and it was time to talk. I explained her 2 things then I remember well – What are different type of roads based on Number of lanes and what each lane is meant for – Driving and overtaking and she surprises me time and again when suddenly she tells me “Paapa, its 4 lane, 6 lane“ etc. On the way to Nandi Hills few months back, which is a single carriageway, she was quick to understand why there was 2 way traffic and the associated caution I was taking while driving too.

Take pride when they learn it right, everytime:

Last but not the least – I feel more happy (& proud) when the little one doesn’t say “Drive fast” or “Overtake that car”. That talks a lot about the message that was passed in the past few years and her acknowledgement and understanding about road safety. Kids with such education will grow up as those few good drivers we see around us.

Accidents like these are lessons for all of us. Drive safe, take care of the occupants.

Last edited by paragsachania : 18th August 2016 at 19:59.
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Old 18th August 2016, 19:50   #71
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

Well not sure many could envisage that this could happen so blaming parents is not justified. They have already lost a piece of their and hear we should empathize with them,
I heard that Chinese Manjha made of plastic with glass coating was banned. If anyone has to be blamed it has to the people selling and using the banned substance.
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Old 18th August 2016, 19:56   #72
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Take pride when they learn it right......

......That talks a lot about the message that was passed in the past few years and her acknowledgement and understanding about road safety.......
Don't intend to embarrass you, but you seem one heck of a father and bringing up a future T-BHPian in the true spirit.

One enlightened kid at a time, and we'll probably have a sane(r) motorist generation a few iterations down the line.

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Well not sure many could envisage that this could happen.......
And that's exactly what's wrong with driver training in our country. Considering what could happen and being prepared for it is (or should be) part of being qualified to drive, whether it's a bicycle or an 18-wheeler. Most Indians are only trained to handle the ABC pedals and the steering (some not even those) and consider themselves experts. I don't believe even 1% of our driving population understand what 'spatial awareness' means, forget practicing it.

Not saying nothing unexpected will ever happen, but sticking one's body parts out of a moving vehicle (through sunroof, moonroof, door, whatever) expecting nothing will happen is not fate, it's stupidity and negligence inviting trouble. Sometimes, trouble just may accept the invite like it happened here.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 18th August 2016 at 20:08.
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Old 18th August 2016, 21:42   #73
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

It's sad that a kid lost life. The parents are equally to be blamed for this show off. The parents do give in to the child's plea and let them stand outside the sun roof. It's high time that traffic police comes up with a law for sun roofs as well. I have even seen multiple kids out of single sun roof which is a definite no no. I hope that car owners will understand the real purpose of the sun roof and not use it as a mere tool to boast their money and risk the lives.
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Old 19th August 2016, 02:03   #74
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

There is no need for a law for sunroofs. There is one law that applies to all, even those who have no sunroof: wear seat belts. small children and babies should be properly secured in child seats.

People who let their children stand on a car seat will not understand how dangerous it is, and cannot see how much more dangerous hanging out of a window or sunroof is.

In a way, the sunroof thing is as ancillary as the kite-string thing. Each of these ancilliaries adds another layer of lethal risk, but the bottom line is secure your children with proper seat belts.

Oh wait, actually, the bottom line is secure yourself and everybody else in the car with proper seat belts.
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Old 19th August 2016, 02:14   #75
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

What happened was tragic and there is nothing anyone can do to change the course of event !!

Manjha (Kite String) sale should be banned unconditionally, i am all for Kite flying heck its one of the things my Grandpa taught me and i absolutely enjoy it but world has changed a lot nowadays and simple thing like Kite String has also evolved like our weapons

Kids are getting their hands cut / Bird are getting sliced up and then accidents like this

Why so annoyed you ask - Imagine riding with Full Face helmet on city roads thinking... I got ride safe & keep eye on surroundings nothing will happen and Bam all of sudden you feel something went pass and you have cut on your neck thanks to some Kid enjoying Kite flying on street
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