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Old 22nd August 2016, 13:29   #121
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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The very act of driving a car is fraught with risk but we drive anyway because we perceive the risk of being hit as low........
That is a specious argument; of course we all live knowing we'll die someday, one way or another. Everything, including breathing, is a risk of some magnitude.

The parents are far more culpable of having an unsecured child (either by seat-belts or child seats, age appropriately) in the car, then letting her further endanger herself by exposing her body outside a moving vehicle. The manjha is just an unfortunate afterthought and an easy excuse to shirk responsibility, illegal and dangerous as it may be.

There are plenty of ways the kid could've gotten injured/killed without any external item involved. The car itself could - and in a lot of cases actually does - kill an unsecured occupant. There's an entire thread running a 1000+ pages full of such examples.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 22nd August 2016 at 13:32.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 14:05   #122
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It seems this thread has served its purpose and now needs to be closed by mods.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 14:19   #123
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
That is a specious argument; of course we all live knowing we'll die someday, one way or another. Everything, including breathing, is a risk of some magnitude.

The parents are far more culpable of having an unsecured child (either by seat-belts or child seats, age appropriately) in the car, then letting her further endanger herself by exposing her body outside a moving vehicle. The manjha is just an unfortunate afterthought and an easy excuse to shirk responsibility, illegal and dangerous as it may be.

There are plenty of ways the kid could've gotten injured/killed without any external item involved. The car itself could - and in a lot of cases actually does - kill an unsecured occupant. There's an entire thread running a 1000+ pages full of such examples.
It would be inane not to agree with your statement, but I am not discussing culpability of the parent s, I am discussing human nature. A low probability event like sun roof related accident is perceived as low risk which is why the parents allow their kids to enjoy the wind. Just like you wouldn’t consider a typical biker riding with his child or a convertible’s driver with passengers enjoying the wind a moron, we shouldn’t dismiss the parents’ unfortunate act as something hideous and worthy of contempt.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 14:41   #124
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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But how hard is it for the govt to ban manufacture & import of any film > 50%?

Pretty straightforward I think. If I can't buy 70% film then chances are I have no way to install it unless I import it illegally..but they acted in a almost revengeful manner with the total ban
For every proper product, lets say 3M sunfilm, there are more than 20 local Jugaad manufacturers who produce its "nakal", read as duplicate.
How hard is it for these Jugaadu manufacturers somewhere in Bhiwandi to manufacture the banned specifications, when they are aware they can fetch higher rates for it?

I am sure one can still find these Jugaadu fully dark invisible sunfilms, even though banned.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 15:04   #125
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Originally Posted by rselva View Post
The very act of driving a car is fraught with risk but we drive anyway because we perceive the risk of being hit as low. The risk assessment by the parents- in hindsight- was definitely off, but the parents might not have been aware of manjas fatal consequence, which is why they allowed their child to indulge in what made that child happy.
Have you ever had a situation while driving on a pleasant afternoon at a speed of 50-60kmph you had to slam on the brakes?

Not because your driving skills were poor or you failed to see an obstruction.

But because a car in the next lane suddenly blew a tire and came in front of you.
Or a kid ran out of his house to pick up a ball.
Or a car ran a red light and came in your path.
Or your own car blew a tire and swerved.

Are these things rare. Yes they are.

But do things like this kill at least one person every 15 mins in India. Yes, they do.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 17:37   #126
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Originally Posted by rselva View Post
The very act of driving a car is fraught with risk but we drive anyway because we perceive the risk of being hit as low. The risk assessment by the parents- in hindsight- was definitely off, but the parents might not have been aware of manjas fatal consequence, which is why they allowed their child to indulge in what made that child happy.
Driving a car is fraught with risk... Everything else in your post you should think really, really hard about. I read the accidents thread partly so that I do not perceive driving to be safe: we need to be reminded.

Cars are not places to indulge children so that they are happy --- although with correct training, the youngsters will enjoy their drives as much as any of us.

Bottom line is nothing to do with sunroofs or manja: A child should be properly secured in a car at all times. And so should you and I and all our passengers.

Yes, there is widespread perception that none of that is necessary or desirable. That is one reason why there are so many deaths and injuries on our roads.

Nothing will happen. True, until it does.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 19:38   #127
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I am puzzled as to what's the purpose of Sunroof in India especially with dust, pollution and need of Aircon at all times.
I by no means suggesting that one should stand in the opening but still want to know.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 20:27   #128
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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I am puzzled as to what's the purpose of Sunroof in India especially with dust, pollution and need of Aircon at all times.
I by no means suggesting that one should stand in the opening but still want to know.
It has no practical use in India. Period.

People buy it because in most of the cases, the top end fully loaded cars are equipped with it and they would like themselves to show off. Most guys show off standing out, others who bought it just for the perceived value it adds to their image, end up never using it one bit, except when they buy it new and they show it to the friends/relatives of its features.

Also some buy it to use the sunroof to actually stand out of.
I know of a colleague who bought a used Fabia with a Sunroof because her daughter was longing for it. I shared the link with him and made him aware of the risks that he is taking allowing her daughter to stand there.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 20:53   #129
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
I am puzzled as to what's the purpose of Sunroof in India especially with dust, pollution and need of Aircon at all times.
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It has no practical use in India. Period.

Also some buy it to use the sunroof to actually stand out of.
Until a few years ago (or is it months? ), I used to really think that they are meant for standing out to get some feel of fresh air, thanks to the many song and movie scenes in Bollywood and other regional languages. I'm sure a lot of people still feel that way, which makes this thread a very important one. Now I believe that the Censor board should look into such scenes as well since they are very deep influencers, especially among children and teens. Actors and singers also have a responsibility towards ensuring they don't promote such acts.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 21:15   #130
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
I am puzzled as to what's the purpose of Sunroof in India especially with dust, pollution and need of Aircon at all times.
I by no means suggesting that one should stand in the opening but still want to know.
My wife always asks this question: What if you have the sunroof open, standing at a signal next to a bus, and a passenger decides to spit paan? Straight into your lap?
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Old 22nd August 2016, 22:06   #131
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All I can say that whatever risks two wheelers are exposed are applicable to Sunroof.
I got my white T-shirt spoiled once by a paan spit from bus (still feel disgusting) around 15 yrs back.
I personally feel that similarly to bad A S S experience of luxury cars people also try to hide the impracticality of sunroof in the name of premiumness.

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My wife always asks this question: What if you have the sunroof open, standing at a signal next to a bus, and a passenger decides to spit paan? Straight into your lap?
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Old 22nd August 2016, 22:29   #132
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

On the off-topic aside: isn't the sunroof there because the car is imported from somewhere where it is expected and even useful?
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Old 22nd August 2016, 23:29   #133
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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On the off-topic aside: isn't the sunroof there because the car is imported from somewhere where it is expected and even useful?
No. Of the two cases that started this thread, one was a Dzire. Smarty pants got it modified and had a sunroof installed.
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Old 23rd August 2016, 03:07   #134
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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For every proper product, lets say 3M sunfilm, there are more than 20 local Jugaad manufacturers who produce its "nakal", read as duplicate.

How hard is it for these Jugaadu manufacturers somewhere in Bhiwandi to manufacture the banned specifications, when they are aware they can fetch higher rates for it?
Pretty hard actually. You need some kind of factory and machines to make sunfilm as opposed to manjha

Second line of attack is to warn film installers that they will face severe consequences (shutdown) if they install dark film

So its WAAAYY easier to track down these factories and shut them down compared to some teenager who makes manjha on his building terrace
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Old 23rd August 2016, 04:08   #135
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Default Re: Child pops head out of the sunroof; killed by manjha!

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But because a car in the next lane suddenly blew a tire and came in front of you.
Or a kid ran out of his house to pick up a ball.
Or a car ran a red light and came in your path.
Or your own car blew a tire and swerved.
Are these things rare. Yes they are.
But do things like this kill at least one person every 15 mins in India. Yes, they do.
Perfectly valid reasons to enforce kids to sit in the back seat with seat belts on. Shorter kids need to sit on a booster. I have seen a child fall off the lap of a woman - out through the window. This was from a Honda CRV on Bangalore Mysore highway. The vehicle had swerved and hit a road bump after a minor brush with a two wheeler. Had the child been sitting on its own, with seat belt strapped, the child would have been perfectly safe. It is a big myth that kids in the backseat need no seat belt.

In fact, when my kids were small and asked for their own seat with seatbelts (and not the lap of uncle/aunt/grandparents) they were written off as being spoiled rotten. We were always torn between doing the socially right thing, and the safe right thing.
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