Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Street Experiences


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th November 2016, 11:34   #61
BHPian
 
Wildy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wild Planet
Posts: 171
Thanked: 311 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrinmoy_s View Post
We just tried this in my friend's S-Cross (1.3). We switched the car on and then I took the key in my pocket and walked away for at least 300m. The car engine did not cut itself off. He could engage the gear and even drive away. Only thing is, once he switched the engine off (by pressing the on/off button), he could not restart the engine. I feel along with safety, it is a security issue as well.
That's a serious security issue. It doesn't happen in Hyundai i20. Even if its in started condition, if the key is outside of the vehicle, it doesn't move.
Wildy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 15:37   #62
BHPian
 
sudeepg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 485
Thanked: 1,015 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
Even if its in started condition, if the key is outside of the vehicle, it doesn't move.
Really? Even in a manual transmission?

As I understand it, there should be no bearing on the mechanicals when the key is outside of the car. It's the case with Volkswagen vehicles if I recall correctly.

I'd also imagine that the T-BHP review would have covered such an important behaviour.

Last edited by sudeepg : 29th November 2016 at 15:40. Reason: adjusting the quote
sudeepg is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 16:27   #63
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 45
Thanked: 11 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Diesel engine runaway? Was it a petrol car? If not, it could be a case of DER??
Ashokkp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 16:38   #64
BHPian
 
Wildy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wild Planet
Posts: 171
Thanked: 311 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeepg View Post
Really? Even in a manual transmission?

As I understand it, there should be no bearing on the mechanicals when the key is outside of the car. It's the case with Volkswagen vehicles if I recall correctly.

I'd also imagine that the T-BHP review would have covered such an important behaviour.
Ofcourse, It's the diesel manual transmission I'm talking about. Even if you come closer to the car, it won't run unless the key is inside the cabin. IMO, that's very good thing.

Last edited by Wildy : 29th November 2016 at 16:40.
Wildy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 16:39   #65
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 417
Thanked: 306 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
That's a serious security issue. It doesn't happen in Hyundai i20. Even if its in started condition, if the key is outside of the vehicle, it doesn't move.
Do you mean to say that if the key is taken away when the car is running it will automatically switch-off or are you suggesting that the engine will be running but the car will not move, somehow disengaging the transmission. I don't think either will be the case. Please check
Mohan Mathew A is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 16:55   #66
BHPian
 
Wildy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wild Planet
Posts: 171
Thanked: 311 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
Do you mean to say that if the key is taken away when the car is running it will automatically switch-off or are you suggesting that the engine will be running but the car will not move, somehow disengaging the transmission. I don't think either will be the case. Please check

I haven't tried it when it's in moving condition. But, when the car is in idle condition with engine on, the car won't move unless the key is inside the cabin.

Say for example, assume you parked at road side for a cool drink and stepped out with car key with you (with Engine On), the car won't run, until you come back. So, nobody able to steal the car even if its engine is on.
Wildy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 17:00   #67
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 6
Thanked: 3 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

I found this thread very interesting and informative, especially since I drive a City VMT with cruise control in use most of the highway drivings.

My question for the experts here: In case of a Manual Transmission, if cruise control and brake fails, how safe is to push the clutch all the way down albeit engine redlining. Later one can down shift and use engine breaking to slow down. Then apply hand break gradually. Nevertheless, in this case if we assume that throttle is fully open, how to deal with the huge torque at down shifted gear? Any expert advice?

Thanks
DrMishra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 17:07   #68
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 417
Thanked: 306 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
I haven't tried it when it's in moving condition. But, when the car is in idle condition with engine on, the car won't move unless the key is inside the cabin.

Say for example, assume you parked at road side for a cool drink and stepped out with car key with you (with Engine On), the car won't run, until you come back. So, nobody able to steal the car even if its engine is on.
Interesting. I have not tried the I20 so i can't say for sure but i am surprised to know this.

So how does the car stop from moving (since the engine is already running)

1) Does it somehow stop you from physically slotting into any gear? or

2) Is it that even if the gear is engaged the car will not move (i can't think how?) or

3) Does it automatically shut off the engine if you try to engage the gear without the key in the car.

Really curious to know.

in the cars i have driven if the engine is running and you take away the key, you can drive as much as you want as long as the engine is not turned-off. There will of course be some kind of visual and/or aural warning.
Mohan Mathew A is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 17:33   #69
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: warangal
Posts: 126
Thanked: 312 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMishra View Post
I found this thread very interesting and informative, especially since I drive a City VMT with cruise control in use most of the highway drivings.

My question for the experts here: In case of a Manual Transmission, if cruise control and brake fails, how safe is to push the clutch all the way down albeit engine redlining. Later one can down shift and use engine breaking to slow down. Then apply hand break gradually. Nevertheless, in this case if we assume that throttle is fully open, how to deal with the huge torque at down shifted gear? Any expert advice?

Thanks
I had a brake failure in a Hyundai Getz and had to drive 100 kms to the nearest mechanic in those situations. My engine was not at redlining, still, let me answer on my experience.

If your brakes stop working, it means that there is a leak in the system and all the pressure built up is leaking away. So, as you push the brake pedal, the some pressure that is being built will help the brake pads to lightly rub with the brake discs/drums and you will have deceleration for some seconds. Then, take your foot off the brake and put it again and some more fluid leaks and the cycle continues. This is called pumping the brakes and this helps you slow down. So, you can still slow down and apply the hand brake when at 10kmph.

Let us assume that eventually, you ran out of fluid and do not have any braking whatsoever. Then, if you are say at 120 kmph, your 3rd gear max would be somewhere close to it for a petrol car. You should know your max speed in gear for your car. You can simply shift down to third and the speed comes down to around 100 (max of third gear). Then gear down to second and do NOT dump the clutch. Let the clutch slip out a bit slowly and ease it into gear. It feels terrifying as if the engine is going to explode but trust me, I am a mechanical engineer and I know for a fact that the first point of failure is going to be the clutch. Then down to first and maybe you are down to 40 kmph by then. Then apply the hand brake and come to a stop. Don't yank it but pull it up slowly for a gradual decrease. This is given you have a free motorway to slow down.

If you are in a crisis, the same procedure but this time, dump the clutch. No problems, let the clutch be completely shredded but trickle down the gears and come into first. Then yank the handbrake and prepare yourself to drift a bit into something or countersteer and stop yourself.

If you are at speed and you have no option, pulling handbrake is a suicide. The car will spin round and round in circles and instead of a frontal impact in which you have chances of survival, you may end up with a side impact at that speed which is definitely more serious.
aveemashfaq is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 18:05   #70
BHPian
 
satrikon_454's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 52
Thanked: 44 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Don't cars have a "Fuel Cut-off" option nowadays? The Ikon had one. This would've probably stopped/slowed down the car in a bit.
satrikon_454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 19:14   #71
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ............
Posts: 3,261
Thanked: 4,207 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
It doesn't happen in Hyundai i20. Even if its in started condition, if the key is outside of the vehicle, it doesn't move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
But, when the car is in idle condition with engine on, the car won't move unless the key is inside the cabin.
Sorry, it is not so. Just now, I tested my son's Hyundai i20 Active 1.4 CRDi SX of November 2015 make. I sat on the driver's seat and my son with the car's key fob on the rear seat. I started the car. He left the car and went inside home. I took i20 Active for a spin around home without the key fob. No problem.

But, our i20 Active did not start, when the key fob was outside the cabin.
J.Ravi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 20:03   #72
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,660
Thanked: 7,508 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by aveemashfaq View Post
...
If you are at speed and you have no option, pulling handbrake is a suicide. The car will spin round and round in circles ...
Wouldn't this depend upon:
1. Is the car FWD or RWD?
2. How is the weight distribution of the car (engine in front or rear)?
3. Handbrake controls which set of wheels?
SDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 20:44   #73
BHPian
 
samyakmodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Indore
Posts: 790
Thanked: 261 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by veedub89 View Post
I guess the only way you could cut the engine is by engaging neutral. In an automatic vehicle this could be tougher considering its electronically handled.
In a manual, engaging neutral and by using the handbrake you could have a semi-controlled stop.

In a car with a start-stop button, the key needs to be present inside the car for it to start. So if you throw the key outside, the engine might cut off. Not too sure about this though.

There are other ways too. You could potentially start scraping the car into the guardrails present on most highways. The frictional losses should give some deceleration.

Maybe hitting a moving lorry could also help. The relative velocity will be lesser and the impact should disable the car's systems. The guard rails will prevent the car from going beneath the lorry.

The idea should be to disable the car somehow.

I'm sorry to say this buddy but it's because of non thought out suggestions like this - people end up in more trouble

If at all one comes across situation like this please do not consider any of the ideas veedub89 has suggested as they would just ensure that you reach the end of this trouble rather quick - and with minimal chances of survival

1. NEVER EVER try to control your car with a hand brake in emergency situations. It will just make you lose whatever control you have over your car if they work. Though there are chances that they won't work to start with because of the speed must've made the brake discs and shoes hot enough not to respond.

2. All the cars with the start stop button need the key to be present in the car while starting - YES. But not needed usually while they have already started. Even if you are in a car with the regular key start - NEVER EVER try switching off the engine. Since most of the cars today have powered brakes and power steering - switching off the engine will only mean none of them will work. Also you add on the risk of the steering getting locked.

3. Scraping the guard rails is another stupid idea. There are very high chances that the guard rails aren't made well. There are more chances of the guard rails penetrating your car and work like a skewer than stopping it.

4. Hitting a moving lorry - NEVER EVER!!! You do not know how you might end up and you are jeopardising others on the road by hitting the lorry - as there are more chances of you running the lorry out of control.

With all due respect veedub89 - brother please do not misuse this forum by giving ideas which are out and out recipe for suicide. Do you research online (remember google is your best friend) about the ideas that you might have before posting them here. Please accept my most sincere apologies for sounding curt in this matter

Here is what one can do in a situation where cruise control malfunctions OR accelerator gets stuck for some reason and you are unable to get the car to a stop

1. Keep calm and put on the hazard lights.
2. Put the car in neutral. Neutral will simply disengage the gears driving the wheels of your car as well as engine.
3. Let your car reduce its speed of its own
4. Once below 60 kmph try pumping your brakes - there are chances they might have cooled down enough to respond now. Keep doing that till the time you are able to stop your car on a kerb.
5. If the brakes do not respond - then try your handbrake but only when your speed has substantially reduced (maybe 40kmph) and while trying it out - do make sure to engage it and disengage it in quick intervals to avoid locking up your rear wheels and going into an involuntary drift. (Caution : use the handbrake only at much lower speeds and while making sure your car is going straight)

Hope this helps
samyakmodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 21:06   #74
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,605
Thanked: 6,690 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
Since most of the cars today have powered brakes and power steering - switching off the engine will only mean none of them will work. Also you add on the risk of the steering getting locked.
Get in your car. Unlock the steering, but do not start the engine. Turn the steering wheel: the front wheels move, right? Power-assisted-steering cars can be steered without the engine on.

Try a similar experiment with the brake. With the car on a slight slope, steering unlocked (just in case) and engine off, put your foot on the brake hard, and release the handbrake. Control the car's roll with the footbrake. The footbrake works with the engine off.

Please do these tests with plenty of space: obviously I have not driven all the cars in the world: maybe there might be some in existence without these basic failsafe mechanisms. And, as I have said before, the amount of pressure needed on the brake pedal comes as a surprise.
Thad E Ginathom is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2016, 21:32   #75
BHPian
 
Wildy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wild Planet
Posts: 171
Thanked: 311 Times
Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Ravi View Post
Sorry, it is not so. Just now, I tested my son's Hyundai i20 Active 1.4 CRDi SX of November 2015 make. I sat on the driver's seat and my son with the car's key fob on the rear seat. I started the car. He left the car and went inside home. I took i20 Active for a spin around home without the key fob. No problem.

But, our i20 Active did not start, when the key fob was outside the cabin.

Please double check. Does it have push start?

I've checked in my friend's Elite i20 Asta for numerous times. It doesn't move at all unless the key is in cabin.
Wildy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Skoda Fabia: Cruise Control retrofit, with BCM upgrade & remote control enabled aayushnair DIY - Do it yourself 9 17th September 2016 15:19
And then a Mahindra XUV5OO was born! The Columbus was born! Columbus_500 Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 23 16th September 2013 11:47
Multi map selection using the cruise control on my Octavia vRS Born2Slow Technical Stuff 17 13th March 2012 21:43
HELP! cruise control failed, Octavia RS da MotorHead Technical Stuff 11 21st September 2006 22:06


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:26.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks